Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Larian, of Interest: Planetary Annihilation Woes

Hi there, Folks!

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so I thought I'd bring it to Larian's attention.

Uber, the Devs for Planetary Annihilation, have released that game on Steam's Early Access for $90 USD.

The reasoning is to match the Kickstarter Alpha Access price.

While I understand where they're coming from, personally, the reception they're getting on Steam is horrific, at best.

I'm not trying to whinge about the pricing in either direction, but as someone who's keenly concerned that Larian succeeds in taking over the world, I felt it wise to point this situation out to you folks so you can avoid any of the pitfalls that just tripped the daylights out of Uber.

I understand the Dev loyalty to their Kickstarter backers. I also understand the average Steam user exploding over an Early Access game with a $90 base price.

Personally, I think this was all done with good intentions, but that's definitely not how the majority of commenters are taking it over on Steam.

Here's the link to the Official Uber post over on the Steam forums.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/233250/discussions/0/864970587226651407/#p1

It's a sad thing to watch, really.

Again, I'm not trying to complain in either direction. I just want Larian to have the BEST experience possible from their Kickstarter and if they consider Steam Early Access.

I think D:OS is the most exciting game in ages, and I really want you folks to knock it out of the park!

Best Wishes,

Snowdrift

Sound slike the typical Trolls created through sweatshops, spoiled with being flooded with games and to prices which are ruinous for almost everybody besides the real huge sweatshop owners.

I posted a more detailed comment about that problem in:
http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=466368&page=3

Such forums are snakepits and often the best friend of the sweatshop owners

In Larian's case, if they add alpha/beta access to the Larian Vault for non-kickstarter backers to purchase, there wouldn't be the same sticker shock of it just showing up on Steam (most people would know in advance that there was a kickstarter and what the add-on prices were set at).

Personally, if I backed Planetary Annihilation at $90, I'd be rather annoyed if the developers listed early access for cheaper. I didn't read the discussion you linked to, but I see all kinds of games listed at prices higher than I am willing to pay. My reaction is to simply not buy the game, but wait for a sale or price drop, or both.

What Raze said - the mistake they made was offering it for sale on steam; they should have 'continue' the kickstart via their website then provided keys for those with alpha/beta access at the appropriate time.

I hope, that there will be no alpha of D:OS in steam.

If steam sells it to a lower price than the endproduct it is unfair for the kickstarter backers.

If steam sells it to a fair price it will repel some costumers.

I think larian that its the best to sell only the finished fully-tested D:OS on steam.

The alpha and beta for D:OS will be likely be run through Steam (that was the idea during the kickstarter, anyway), but AFAIK not sold there.

I think the problem that Uber is having with Planetary Annihilation's debut on Steam isn't really one of right or wrong, but of perception and perspective.

Uber is supporting their backers, as Raze mentioned, and that makes sense...

Steam users who have no prior knowledge of Kickstarter are shocked by a $90 price tag on what they see as an unfinished game - and to them, that makes sense.

There is no inherent right or wrong to this. I don't think either side is "good" or "evil." I'm not saying entitlement is proper, either.

I just think that perception can hurt, whether that inference is achieved justly or otherwise.

I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's right. I don't think it's good. No matter what I think, though, perception is a double-edged sword.

That's true. Uber now has an update about the pricing on the Steam page, though (with the benefit of hindsight) that probably should have been the first thing mentioned in the 'What the developers say' description, before expanding on what early access meant (and/or in 'About the Game').

I think that the synergy of Kickstarter, home-grown crowd-funding, and Steam Early Access is something completely new.

I think that Uber's goal was to be fair. I just don't think they could foresee the way in which the uninitiated might receive them. Not because they're not smart, but because this is all so new.

I'm not trying to point out flame wars with that forum link, but to show how those fair intentions could be incorrectly perceived.

I've never cared more about "the process" of a game "becoming" than I have for Divinity: Original Sin. To that end, I just want Larian to have all the benefits of foresight through the usage of other people's hindsight... if that makes sense...

As already stated; the solution is: Do not sell early access on Steam. Wiat till the release for the product to be sale on steam. This does not prevent the usage of steam for alpha/beta.

I don't like the idea of Early Access, and I never use it. It's paying the developer full price for an Alpha version. Plus, Uber's got a bad reputation for gouging their customers and being jerks.

Larian should have no need to do an Early Access thing at all, that was the point of the Kickstarter.

I rarely pre-order or buy early access for games... people shouldn't be complaining about the price of early access though, if it's too high, just let the company suffer.

the problem is that one should NEVER sell alpha or beta unless it is part of a greater package(like kickstarter) or what the game will sell for when released.. even cheaper like it was for Minecraft. Beta/Alpha should be FREE to test the game to aid the company in releasing the game. I think that is the major reason why there is so much flak for Uber.. that and their game in no way is worth the 90 bucks... IMO Uber is being greedy and will suffer for it.

You think $90 for Alpha from Uber was high? With Larian it was $135.

On a fully funded game, like from a Publisher, sometimes Alpha/Beta access is free.

However, on Indie games, like the ones from Larian and Uber, both used more expensive reward tiers for access to Alpha and Beta to generate more interest and more funds.

Perhaps you have some better ideas to do this?
I have seen many games on crowdfunding, like Kickstarter, and usually the ones without more expensive tiers for Alpha and Beta access do not get funded.

I appears to be normal practice on kickstarter to allow high paying backers alpha and beta access. In all honesty, we are not paying for beta and alpha access, we are paying to make the game better.

As for those whiners, they are just bratty trolls that would do nothing but flame the developers that they are finding bugs in the alpha and beta versions of the game. I see it all the time and it is just pathetic.

Larian goes threw extensive pains to ensure their customers are as happy as possible. I just wish they would give themselves until June of 2014 to release D:OS and goal for January for alpha access. That way the extra content isn't rushed.

Well, no, that's wrong.

Bare-bones, only-the-Alpha Access was $75 - $50 for an Alpha add-on, plus $25 for a steeply discounted version of the normally-$40 base game. Funny enough, if Larian were to remove the discount and sell the base game at full price, the only-the-Alpha package would be $90, the exact same as Uber's early-access beta.

That gets to the crux of the complaints: Pay more now to get a less-good product, or pay much less later to get a better one.


Your "$135-for-Original Sin-Alpha" doesn't take into account that you're also getting 2 copies of Original Sin and one copy of Dragon Commander ($40 each at retail), plus the soundtrack ($10), Developer documents ($10), digital art book, digital map, name an undead and more. That makes the Alpha access a free bonus.

Uber's "$90-for-PA-Alpha" tier on Kickstarter includes the game for $20 (so $40 retail value), the soundtrack ($20), and a special model for the commander unit ($10), and a digital art book (let's say $10). So I suppose it's a bit more value than the $75 Original Sin + Alpha, but not close to as much value as Larian's $135 package.

please read what I said... Larian's falls under "part of a greater package" and to elaborate Kickstarter is essentially a donation that we get stuff for.. not even close to the Steam early access purchase.

If those that are complaining only want the game at the best price, then it's simple: wait until retail release, or even later when it goes on sale.

Alpha/Beta should not be about getting it early and in a lower quality state. For me, I get to help shape the games and make them better.

I am not alone. With Larian D:OS, there are hundreds that will get Alpha, and probably more from add-ons and Paypal.
Al
For PA from Uber, there are already over 8000 Alpha testers.
So some people must see a value there, as I do.

Uber's problem is that they're applying the Kickstarter mindset to Steam, and those platforms are NOT the same.

Kickstarter is for donating to help a developer. It's throwing money into the ether and hoping that what they get back will be worth it. The mindset of a Kickstarter backer is that they are willing to pay more than what they know a thing may be strictly worth.

Steam generally doesn't think that way. The Steam mindset is about impulse buying and going for a good deal. It isn't about deliberately overpaying to fund development. That's why the $90 price tag is getting poorly received.


The developer comes across as double-dipping for community funding after already raising $2.2 MILLION does not help the impression.

I think Uber could just clarify it more community friendly, and maybe lower the alpha price a bit since they don't get the goodies like us backers do. But they can't and won't allow alpha/beta access too low in appeal to quick fix gamers. Reason being:

1. If they open this precedence, people know they will do it again. So I'll just back low tier and get what I want and wait for Steam Early access. Eventually they won't be able to get funded on KickStarter. And that being the primary reason they can't lower the price, they want to continue business as usual like inXile and DoubleFine in KS.

2. Paying high price is like a commitment, you can think it as donation and forget about it, not participating alpha/beta as you like. Imagine that you set alpha price at low low $5, there will be hundreds of thousands complaining bugs and no slot on a alpha to play a broken game and lost interest. So instead of focused testing and maybe getting new mechanism out from alpha, they will be overwhelmed by supporting request. Yes, you essentially pay money to work for free, so the end product might be the one you really like and Uber profit. But I'll do the same for Larian.

3. Those people will buy it even if they say they are not going to buy it. For Uber's interest they just need to make a freaking kickass game. I think publishers already said harsher word to them than internet trolls could ever achieve, they won't give a damn to unreasonable requests. It's their entire company at steak to go KS, they want alpha/beta to be good, so no alpha will turn out good if it's not a controlled ones. PA and D:OS are both not open sandbox game like Minecraft.

4. Let people play early alpha with low entry barrier will definitely get them bad reputation and spread like crazy on internet. It wouldn't be just "that price is buillshit", it will be "this game is gonna be shit". I guess out more mature Larian forum goer will know what I mean.