Larian Studios Forums Dragon Commander Dragon Commander - Beta The giant blob of death

So I've been playing around with the Beta almost since it went open (beta).
After some time of getting used to it and a few patches I managed to do well enough in the game.

There's some thing I noticed since around patch 1.0.124 or so, though:
In an evenly matched game, it often happens that I hold some chokepoint, usually without much effort.
Since I'm not strong enough for a direct attack yet, I build up my army, defending against more or less constant but weak attacks from the enemy AI.
Then suddenly, the enemy attacks with a huge (really huge) blob of units (mostly light infantry).
The thing is, there doesn't seem to be anything I can do at that point.
AI produces faster, kills my troops faster and, most importantly, manages to keep a constant stream of units up - the map just shows a steady colored line from the AI base to the frontline. I might be able to defend for a while, as the enemy units are rather weak, but there is strength in numbers after all...

What I don't understand is how this can happen so suddenly and how the AI manages to sustain it. The AI has roughly the same amount of resources like I do.
It's as if a chaotic or meta-stable system suddenly tips over, i.e. all seems fine, then suddenly all hell breaks loose.

Any ideas?

I think it's pretty "ok" : enemy create a whole bunch of units pretty quickly as they are cheap and small, while you build centers etc... which cost recruits.

Furthermore, you have the Dragon, they don't. It may be a balancing stuff (and, burning troopers is awesome)

Well, they have to build the same buildings, otherwise they couldn't create any troops in the first place.
Plus, a computer is much better at microing large amounts of units than a human player, which counts as a advantage for the AI, I think.

The most recent beta adds much better control of units when in dragon form, and you no longer have to despawn to build more (Changelist for version 1.0.133.9727).

I mean, they DON'T have a dragon. they must compense with something ...

I agree, it's impossible for average players (like me) to win, the A.I. is too good to beat.
For sure there's hard core players who'll tell us what to do but I don't think that anyone should need advices to play a game on the lowest difficulty level.

Sure, I understand that they have to compensate for the missing dragon.

I just wonder exactly what's going wrong there and why it happens so fast.
I hold more ressource centers than the enemy and roughly the same amount of factories.
All seems ok. I build up my army for the attack on the enemies base.
Then suddenly the AI fields a huge blob of weak infantry units and through constant supply manages to overwhelm me quickly.

Where do they get the ressources for that, when I'm building almost constantly as well and don't manage to field as many units that quickly? (Medium AI by the way)

If the reason for me not keeping up is that the stronger units like hunters or tanks need more ressources and support, then maybe the costs and/or build times should be adjusted some more, since the AI can just overwhelm me with lots of weak units, i.e. they are more cost-efficient than stronger units?


Edit:
B4Marc, I wouldn't call myself a hardcore player and still manage to win often enough (not always though). The game has a certain learning curve and once you pick up some general ideas, it is possible to win, as long as you don't let your guard down too long.
However, the enemy can produce VERY fast, and this can tip the battel too fast sometimes, I think.

Infantry is relatively cheap, so if the AI has roughly the same income as you, they're just being bad at army composition.
You have at least 3 ways to deal with infantry spam: Warlock's rain of fire, devastators, zeppelin's mustard gas. In other words, splash damage. Infantry doesn't stand much of a chance against these, particularly in front of devastators.

Ok, but that still means that I have to have researched those techs fast.
Well, it might be that it won't be a problem in the Single Player campaign, as I guess that research will be handled a bit different there, and most importantly, the pacing.

Still it's strange that the AI being bad at unit composition leads to the AI using a tactic that is hard to counter - at least early on.

I will play some more and try to get more AoE abilities sooner, hoping that it will counter the blob of death.
Thanks for the tip!

Early in the game, hunters are your top anti-infantry unit. Facing a lot more grenadiers than troopers? Then troopers help too.

It's a learning curve, but I'm really not an hardcore player and can win...

Even if the first trial was just a mess for me.

Giant blob of death eats hunters for breakfast...

By the time that blob had time to grow as big as you suggest, I wager that the army facing said blob had the time to get some shamans with paralysis. Giant blob is starting to weep now.

Sweet!

Well, in campaign mode (what I usually play), I need to research it before. Once the RTS starts, I'm stuck with what I have (which is how it should be, imho).
But the paralyze ability has been moved up recently, making it a bit harder to acquire - and honestly, if I have to direct my whole research towards countering one specific quirk of the current RTS-AI, I still think it might be better to reduce the possibility of the AI to do something like that.

What difficulty AI are you thinking of, if I may ask?
Maybe I'm being too dismissive of something I have yet to have a problem with.
Also, when you say giant blob of (small) units, I think of mass troopers and grenadiers. Are you perchance thinking of something different?

I'm playing on medium since the latest patch, and "default_AI" before.
I don't fully understand what's happening myself, as it's not happening everytime.
Most RTS games I manage to do good enough to win without many problems.

But sometimes, while the initial match goes on as usual - me capturing some build points and building recruiting centers and production buildings and occupying choke-points - at some point the AI seems to be able to quite quickly muster a very large army of small units (mostly troopers, some shamans and bazookas, but also some hunters) and overwhelms me with it.
Now, in principle I should have the same or even more ressources, since I usually hold at least 50% of the map, but when it starts, I can't keep production up the same way as the AI does.
It might be that countering the blob of death is easy with the right tactics and abilities (which is also why I ask), but it seems that esp. in the early game you will likely not have the units/abilities to counter the blob so easily.

Now, I'm not saying that the AI is cheating or that there is some bug, but seeing that the AI seems to have NO problem constantly producing a ton of infantry, while I'm out of ressources fast, one could get the impression.
Hm, I will try to gather some more info...

Have you paid attention to whether the AI plays any cards before the battle, i.e., a card reducing the costs for units produced during RTS? If, for example, the grendariers production costs the AI 4 recruits less, then it would be able to produce much more units than you although you have the same number of recruits.

Hm, I didn't notice such cards. He did play a few cards that gave him a couple of free units, but that just affects the initial units, and one that reduced the movement of one of my unit types.
That certainly aggravated the problem, but it can't be the whole issue.
Of course, if such cards exist and I didn't notice them, it might be the case, yes.
Then I think they should be tweaked a bit, however.

Medium is around where I've located myself with the now mostly working AI too.

1 v 1'ing on some of these 2 v 2 maps can make map control quite the hassle, yes. In fact, it's too much of a hassle for me, and I don't 1 v 1 any more. So everything I've said does run into the wall of actually being able to position your army (or armies, due to map control requiring some splitting) in a spot that can take advantage of any abilities you own.

For instance, I've once demolished an enemy blob with the armor's shock wave, but it was the Dragon's Pass map, where the main armies naturally meet along the Z.

In theory, and in practice when you manage to outmaneuver your opponent, mass damage weapons are natural anti-blob measures. Juggernauts, Devastators, Shaman paralyze, Zeppelin mustard gas. These are, as you've noted, more late-game techniques. Early game, it kind of comes down to how you manage your armies and how you micromanage fights, as you struggle to achieve a high kill-to-loss ratio.
As you've noted, the AI builds as it fights, something only a really skilled human can do right. You've also got to survive at least one onslaught before you can even bring in your dragon, which requires its own research or cards to be useful.