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#471377 06/08/13 03:27 PM
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Is there any chance we can have an update on your approach to puzzles? We know dungeons as devilish designed labyrinths and such on the one hand, but on the other most people shouldn't get stuck in a puzzle to the point of needing a guide. Lots of RPGs in latest years just did away with them or made simple "find the key" tasks, with the worst offender being Skyrim and its "combination lock" puzzles (hint! not actually a puzzle).

What's the approach in Original Sin? will we get to align crystals to get sunlight to a certain spot? Sokoban puzzles? word riddles? fight-in-the-correct-order rooms? timing puzzles? gadget/spell puzzles?

Also, make traps deadly or at least punishing beyond HP loss or savescum avoidance. Pretty please.

Last edited by pakoito; 06/08/13 03:30 PM.
pakoito #471384 06/08/13 03:57 PM
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Not related to your question; but hopeful 2ct suggestion; puzzles is the one thing that many new rpg lack and I sincerely hope that D:OS has many puzzles from simple fetch this item to tongue twisters to complex logic; to push these switches in the right order to everything you can think of puzzles. Puzzles make the world go round and then some smile

meme #471405 06/08/13 04:39 PM
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Some people enjoy mental activity, some people don't.


Unless otherwise specified, just an opinion or simple curiosity.
EinTroll #471421 06/08/13 05:30 PM
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true, but for those who don't there are tons of console "RPG's".

Name one of at least AA quality from last three years for those who enjoyed RPG's for their dungeon puzzles without glowing trail to next glowing item to press E.

Last edited by Elenoe; 06/08/13 05:31 PM.
EinTroll #471434 06/08/13 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by EinTroll
Some people enjoy mental activity, some people don't.


Then put a puzzle and put a "skip" button on every puzzle. Everyone is happy, or make it easier depending on your perks (IE oblivion/skyrim on its lockpicks).


"There is no such thing as absolute freedom because we are still prisoners of society"
Elenoe #471448 06/08/13 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenoe
true, but for those who don't there are tons of console "RPG's".

Name one of at least AA quality from last three years for those who enjoyed RPG's for their dungeon puzzles without glowing trail to next glowing item to press E.


I think the Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light is one of the few (actually not an RPG) that had them, and that speaks volumes of the state of affairs.

Last edited by pakoito; 06/08/13 06:49 PM.
pakoito #471456 06/08/13 07:50 PM
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Lara Croft and the Guaridan of Light was fun smile
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I can't really think of any other recent rpgs with puzzles - will there was frayed knight (an indie game) but it was rather short and not very complex. Witcher 2 was more about story than puzzles.
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Legend of grimlock had a few
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i think most of the remaining 2012 rpgs were mmo which I don't play.

henryv #471476 06/08/13 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by henryv
Originally Posted by EinTroll
Some people enjoy mental activity, some people don't.


Then put a puzzle and put a "skip" button on every puzzle. Everyone is happy, or make it easier depending on your perks (IE oblivion/skyrim on its lockpicks).


That's lazy design. Either lock that section (this is an open world, right?) or create a "skip puzzle" commodity that can be purchased, found, looted, grinded or similar. Wizard's Cheatbook, Wand of Skipping, Infernal Resolving Puzzlebox, Potion of Ingenuity, Scroll of Open Sesame...

pakoito #471479 06/08/13 09:06 PM
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I would love puzzles to be included.

From what I've seen, this is very much a game for curious minds, with the item combination system, quests not being labeled, whole cities underground you might miss completely, and even digging. Puzzles ought to fit right in.

Hopefully good puzzles, not just ones with really obvious solutions and lots of busy work.

Speaking of Skyrim, I remember when I played the Dragonborn dlc and there were some actual puzzles in one of the dungeons, it felt so crazy, PUZZLES in Skyrim! I enjoyed it.

The series Golden Sun is my favorite for dungeons and puzzles, gotta say. On the topic of skipping puzzles, I think the latest game in that series had an ability that showed you the solution if you are too lazy.

Last edited by Reki; 06/08/13 09:10 PM.
pakoito #471481 06/08/13 09:08 PM
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For myself I'd say it makes more sense to put puzzles in front of rewards for smaller sidequests rather than in the main arc. That way you can't ever get stuck and unable to progress but there are some rewards for those that do. You can also add puzzles in the main arc if the penalty for failing or getting stuck isn't too out of line.

Rack #471486 06/08/13 09:30 PM
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Another simple solution is to place puzzles not into areas which are important for the main quest line, at least the more challenging brain teasers.
Then people can decide themselves if they wnat to face the challenge or just give up and nuke the site from orbit....oops...wrong movie.


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henryv #471490 06/08/13 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by henryv
Originally Posted by EinTroll
Some people enjoy mental activity, some people don't.


Then put a puzzle and put a "skip" button on every puzzle. Everyone is happy, or make it easier depending on your perks (IE oblivion/skyrim on its lockpicks).


Or make quests that can be solved in may ways, including by solving puzzles.

Edit: Non-quest related puzzles that give you rewards after you solve them would also be nice.

Last edited by AstroZombie; 06/08/13 09:39 PM.
Reki #471519 07/08/13 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Reki
The series Golden Sun is my favorite for dungeons and puzzles, gotta say. On the topic of skipping puzzles, I think the latest game in that series had an ability that showed you the solution if you are too lazy.
Try Lufia 2, if my memories are correct it had terrific puzzles. The game had same-turn movement as in roguelikes and that was the base for many timing puzzles.

Use a fast-forward enabled emulator because as most jRPGs, blabber blabber blabber fedex to this town and find the dungeon, down the boss, continue story.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by wikipedia
All monsters appear on the dungeon map as well, and can be avoided if the player wishes. Motion in dungeons is also "turn-based," in that monsters do not move unless the player does. Maxim gains a number of tools and weapons for use in dungeons (similar to the The Legend of Zelda titles), such as a bow and arrow, bombs and a hookshot; these, along with his sword (swung using a face button), will stun monsters temporarily and interact with obstacles. Finally, dungeons place great emphasis on challenging puzzles.

Last edited by pakoito; 07/08/13 01:28 AM.
pakoito #471522 07/08/13 02:36 AM
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Even AC3 had puzzles in the underground wink


WOOS
LordCrash #471526 07/08/13 03:22 AM
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On locking content/areas from players, rewarding explorers.

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What's less immediately apparent is the Dark Souls influence. Playing that game was an extremely formative experience for me as a game designer, and has caused me to rethink everything. I've learned some things that aren't supposed to be okay really are okay. For example: Putting a large, stunning, noteworthy portion of the map behind the most unlikely illusionary wall.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192311215/ghost-song-a-journey-of-hope

Last edited by pakoito; 07/08/13 03:23 AM.
pakoito #471540 07/08/13 05:09 AM
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The problem with this puzzle implementation is the no "mini games" stance of the developers. Puzzles, meaning, a sodoku kind of board you need to solve. I do hope puzzles like this or of similar nature gets implemented though. It's less of a fetching quest or less of a grind because you will use your mental capacity.

If one aspect of the game relies on puzzles, it will become tedious. What we need Sort of like torchlight's puzzle when getting treasure chests wherein it is less noticeable, but you cringe to finishing it because at end, there's a treasure chest.

Maybe larian will implement a quest type puzzle though. With the digging skills or etc that was presented on KS.

Last edited by henryv; 07/08/13 05:12 AM.

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pakoito #471584 07/08/13 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pakoito
Try Lufia 2, if my memories are correct it had terrific puzzles. The game had same-turn movement as in roguelikes and that was the base for many timing puzzles.
Ahh, Lufia. I only played Ruins of Lore (the 4th and last spin off game in the series, not counting the remake I think they did) back in the day, which I thought was pretty great. Been meaning to play the other ones for ages. I don't remember a lot about the puzzles, I need to get my gba out and replay that sucker

Back on topic, I heard Sven saying in the latest update that they'd fill the dungeon with a variety of things, including puzzles.

Last edited by Reki; 07/08/13 10:23 AM.
Reki #471607 07/08/13 12:27 PM
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They are going to spend the next months precisely creating game content, so I thought a little tip of puzzles done right may help. If they don't or go with simplified ones I'll enjoy the game anyway wink

Last edited by pakoito; 07/08/13 12:28 PM.

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