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#474604 15/10/13 07:52 PM
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I'm really looking forward to this game. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm anticipating Original Sin's release with higher hopes than I've ever had for a video game. Partly that's due to my personal tastes and the emotional engagement arising from such a legendary kickstarter sure, but I ask myself - why am I looking forward to this game so much? And am I managing my expectations reasonably?

Original Sin is essentially being kickfinished rather than kickstartered, so Larian has been able to show & tell us a lot about the game, and their community engagement has been excellent. We have a fair idea of what the game will be like, if not the finer details and how it will actually play. Larian have also been receiving widespread praise and even industry awards in recognition of the quality of the game's development. And the latest updates have been very reassuring and encouraging - I'm so glad they're taking the time they need to implement all those juicy stretch goals properly, and even managing to release the modkit with alpha. Larian appears to be 'doing it right'.

So why worry? Well if something seems too good to be true it usually isn't. I realise Original Sin will have weaknesses, game mechanic imbalances and bugs like every other game ever. And problems can arise in development; things may not work out as well as could be hoped. There's a lot can happen in a game's development. That said, I'm pretty confident that I'll have a lot of fun with the game, regardless of how high it actually manages to climb the mountain of RPG greatness.

With this in mind, I would just like to say to Larian, hey no pressure despite the expectations, ours or yours. I understand video game development is an art, and sometimes the cake just doesn't come out of the oven as you'd like. I look forward to eating the cake regardless. Aim for the stars and land where you may.

In any event, I still can't help but go a little gaga when I think of a richly atmospheric and interactive world a la Divine Divinity, adding a deep turn-based combat system and a party to go adventuring with (featuring that exciting dialogue system). Then consider all those stretch goals and the modkit wink

I'm interested in others' thoughts about the potential of Original Sin and how they feel about it. So what (if any) are your expectations and why?


"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig
Robcat #474605 15/10/13 08:15 PM
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For me personally, D:OS might be a sleeper hit. Initially I didn't have nearly the same expectations for it as I had for Project: Eternity and Torment, for example. Now... with P:E they've made some questionable design decisions and the Torment guys still haven't even decided on a combat system IIRC, while D:OS slowly got more and more interesting to me, even though they too have made some decisions I'm not happy about (like getting rid of the fixed male/ female setup, which could have been great, writing wise).

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I hope for NWN1 successor, just a bit smile It's 12 years and no game came even close with that level of rules and toolset.

Elenoe #474726 21/10/13 12:56 PM
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Well D:OS has tools and stuff but the rules are radically different and it is turn base so it is very different from NWN1. One thing that partially worries me abuot D:OS is the very limited number of level and skill points; it seems while this approach might lead to better balance (or easier balance) it also restrict the characters directions and diversity.

meme #474727 21/10/13 01:46 PM
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I think what was shown (as far as the skill system) was just to show that you could add points to stuff and was in no way set or balanced yet. At least I sure hope not, with tons of skills, 1 point per level would stink and drive me nuts, haha!

But yea, my expectations are a little high for this game. I wouldn't be after experiencing epic fails like DA II and Diablo III and lots of recent indi RPG fails like Legends of Dawn and that Realms of Arkania remake however, these guys seem sincere in making the best games they can. After following the kickstarter and getting funded to put in just about everything I'd want to see in an RPG, I'd say I have been strong armed into having high hopes for a great RPG experience! cheer


I pledged and all I got was this lousy awesome game!
Von_Rotten #474731 21/10/13 07:39 PM
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Baldur's Gate game had a good number of skills with 5 proficiency levels per skill max (with class restrictions for each class) and only 1 skill per... I forgot, was it 2-3 levels?

If it works well in how the game plays, then all's fine. The game will most likely open up to tuning as time passes anyway, as people will make tools for tweaking what Larian won't let you tweak yourself. And they seem to be offering very liberal tweaking, if I'm not mistaken.
I could be mistaken, seeing I just caught a cold, I'm in woeful pain and may have lost touch with the world as it is :s


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EinTroll #474739 22/10/13 01:41 PM
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Well, if they did it just to be "old school" I don't think it would translate very well as Div:Dos is not based on an AD&D rule set whereas the game mechanics of Baldur's gate was built specifically around the AD&D 2nd edition rule set.

From the gameplay I have seen so far, the encounters look like they can get pretty tough so without a rhyme or reason, expanding your characters skills at a snail's pace could be quite a bit unbalancing, plus it's always nice to feel like you have advanced your char (other than gear) a bit regularly.


I pledged and all I got was this lousy awesome game!
Von_Rotten #474793 24/10/13 03:37 PM
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rules are no importance. They are metagame for RPG. I can fit to any rules that are not over simplified. (And NWN interpretation of DND is very limited, especially for RP. But many things can be modded so we had 5x more spells in our server, many of them just for RP purposes).

NWN (DND) has turn based combat. So not much change. It also have pause on demand implemented and next actions queue. No big deal here either.

Also both are not quality defining for me. I don't have "high expectations". Generally not good thing at all. It's Larian game. Not Bioware. But the soul could remain. Rich world (I hoped for big either). Scripted quests with selective outcome. Many side quests with no ability to take them all in one gameplay (due to stat/morale choices). And original, funny if possible, ideas here and there (Larian specialty). Customizable home is confirmed (I liked tower in D2) and I hope it doesn't go for free. And rewarding character progress.

Elenoe #475315 22/11/13 11:53 AM
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I too was concerned that the story/writing would suffer with the change from the fixed-gender plot, but it's a little hard to say without knowing the specifics of the said plot. If I recall rightly, Larian did say that they made the change because they realised it was the right one for the game and that it would actually mean a lot more work and writing. I dunno, we'll see how it turns out though in retrospect we may never know.

I do wonder what the writing will be like in Original Sin. I've found Larian's past games a bit 'camp' in that regard, which while fun (and often brilliant) isn't to my tastes for 'my dream RPG', but then the writing isn't what draws me to their games so my expectations/hopes are different there. Yet Original Sin looks to be something substantially more than their previous offerings so I I am hoping for a bit more depth and seriousness, especially with companions now. It looks that way with the dialogue and 'reputation' system they have going on. I'm fascinated to see what Original Sin will actually be like to play...

Actually come to think of it, I think I'm finding it easier to manage my expectations for Original Sin now because there are so many apparently quality RPGs coming out soon that cater to my tastes, each offering different experiences. So I'm not as starved as I used to be and I'm becoming accustomed to that.

I think this happy state of the RPG market might be part of Larian's reasoning for sinking so much extra resources and effort into this game, if I'm interpreting Swen's recent blog correctly. To release a game that compares well and hopefully stands out in a strong market with the likes of Project Eternity, Torment:Tides of Numenera, Age of Decadence, Wasteland 2, Blackguards etc would create some serious prestige for Larian. Not to mention that it will need to be good to get attention with all these other games around. Of course they could all turn out to be forgettable, yet somehow I doubt that Xmas

Exciting times!

Last edited by Robcat; 22/11/13 11:56 AM.

"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig
Robcat #475317 22/11/13 01:11 PM
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Different people, different tastes, different expectations, different tolerance, lots of different. The more complex the person, the more detailed their expectations.

That's why games have their own audiences. One may or may not be part of said audience and hence they will or won't like the game, depending on how well they overlap with the audience for said game. But that's just stating the obvious.

So, what I'd say about expectations is: keep it realistic. Don't crate expectations based on assumptions; i.e. don't outline your expectations of a game that you haven't even touched yet. The game will be enjoyable (or detestable) in its own ways. Overestimating will leave a bitter taste.


Overall, all I expect of the game is for it to be enjoyable, as I've enjoyed Larian's previous titles in the series.

{So says a pessimist.}


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Robcat #475343 23/11/13 05:44 PM
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The gameplay looks solid (I'm glad they are finally going turn grid based combat).

However, my main concern is the story. Larian is excellent when it comes to writing humor and some weird storyline that make you laugh, but their writing isn't the best in the world. I really want a story and companions that are just as memorable as something like Planescape Torment or Mask of the Betrayer. But I doubt will get anything similar to that.

Bonerbill #475348 24/11/13 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonerbill
The gameplay looks solid (I'm glad they are finally going turn grid based combat).

However, my main concern is the story. Larian is excellent when it comes to writing humor and some weird storyline that make you laugh, but their writing isn't the best in the world. I really want a story and companions that are just as memorable as something like Planescape Torment or Mask of the Betrayer. But I doubt will get anything similar to that.


That's right, we almost certainly aren't going to get that. If you're familiar with Larian's games, you should know what to expect by now. They make great games, with lots of funny dialogue and interesting situations and quests, but the overall storyline isn't that spectacular. The banter between party members in Beyond Divinity... well not banter really. The Death Knight's side was delightfully snarky, the Paladin's was rather generic hero stuff. I'm not sure what the companions in Original Sin will be like, but Larian hasn't done large parties before (unless Dragon Commander counts).

If you want Planescape Torment 2, you might be better off looking at Torment: Tides of Numenara. Larian's focus is more on freedom of choice than deepness of theme and story.

Stabbey #475361 24/11/13 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Bonerbill
The gameplay looks solid (I'm glad they are finally going turn grid based combat).

However, my main concern is the story. Larian is excellent when it comes to writing humor and some weird storyline that make you laugh, but their writing isn't the best in the world. I really want a story and companions that are just as memorable as something like Planescape Torment or Mask of the Betrayer. But I doubt will get anything similar to that.


That's right, we almost certainly aren't going to get that. If you're familiar with Larian's games, you should know what to expect by now. They make great games, with lots of funny dialogue and interesting situations and quests, but the overall storyline isn't that spectacular. The banter between party members in Beyond Divinity... well not banter really. The Death Knight's side was delightfully snarky, the Paladin's was rather generic hero stuff. I'm not sure what the companions in Original Sin will be like, but Larian hasn't done large parties before (unless Dragon Commander counts).

If you want Planescape Torment 2, you might be better off looking at Torment: Tides of Numenara. Larian's focus is more on freedom of choice than deepness of theme and story.


You think I'm not aware of Tides of Numenera? :p But anyway, it doesn't have to be Planescape deep, but I just want something more deep and memorable. Many of Obsidian games has just as much freedom and choice as the Divinity games, and I feel their writing is a lot better.

Bonerbill #475367 25/11/13 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonerbill
Many of Obsidian games has just as much freedom and choice as the Divinity games, and I feel their writing is a lot better.


Erm..what?Sorry and no offence because I like some of their RPG's (morrowind is the bomb) but comparing it to divinity when it comes to freedom is something i find..well odd to say the least..

And as far as writing..maybe when it comes to "The Big Story" but imho Larian's "Big Story" is very pleasing as well, but as far as banter/medium size dialogues go Larian wins hands down..

But I won't lie, the fact that I find Skyrim an abomination of an rpg doesn't help in this matter laugh



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dwelfusius #475374 25/11/13 12:38 PM
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Are you sure you're not confusing Bethesda with Obsidian?


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EinTroll #475375 25/11/13 12:48 PM
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ow haha smile sorry..monday morning xD



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dwelfusius #475376 25/11/13 02:21 PM
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It is very difficult for me to compare Obsidian to Larian simply because of the number of different type of games execute by Obsidian. I kind of wished you had mention some games because I'm not sure if we are talking about nwn-2; jade empire; prototype; Dungeon Siege iii; ...
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Also Larian games are some what different (dks, divinity, beyond divinity); but I tend to find from the list of games I mentioned (there might be others); that Larian games are a bit more open world (more freedom of path) but the stories a bit more constrained (obsidian seems to provide more choices/consequence of choice); though I believe that Larian has stated several times that in D:OS they intend to focus or at least add greater consequence of choice for side quests (not sure if this will impact main quest).
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The other thing that is a bit unfair in the comparison is that Obsidian history is much richer (more games; and trials at different approaches to story telling); esp if you consider the pre-obsidian games that the major players (Chris Avellone, ...) have explored. That is to say it seems to me that Larian has relatively few games and they are still refining their style (I expect D:OS to be an evolution on DKS story telling which was an evolution from divinity/beyond divinity). It is unfortunate that they had a bit of money issue causing the evolution to be a bit slower. Conversely I am sure that Obsidian story telling has been some what constrained by publisher pressure (so it will be interesting to see what becomes of Project eternity).
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I did not mention fallout las vegas in my list above since I have not played the game but of the games I mentioned i really liked DKS best though as I think back on it I think it perhaps lacked a bit of choice/consequence mechanics that some prefer. In fact I can't really think of any RPG that have very strong choice/consequence machanics (in a grand scscheme; but to hear xile talk about Wastland 2 that might be such a game - they claim that choices you make will result in many hours (20+) of branches in the story line - though it remains to see how it executes.
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I will say that I have very high hope for wasteland 2; D:OS and project eternity (perhaps too high as I cannot see how they can all be successful from a perspective of statistics) and perhaps this new age of self funding/public funding (or simply non-publisher funding) will also bring in a new age of RPG gaming.

(of course as a player who often tries to completely finish a game we will now have to accept that is just not possible because not all 'quests' can be performed per session due to branching smile )

Elenoe #475398 26/11/13 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenoe
I hope for NWN1 successor, just a bit smile It's 12 years and no game came even close with that level of rules and toolset.


AFter BG2 I looked forward to NWN like you wouldn't believe, alas NWN1 was a horrible game. I'm pretty sure the only thing that makes it good in many people's minds is the toolkit and the hard work of the community to make *something* adequate out of it.

The Original Campaign was so enormously tedious and the story so incredibly boring that I called it quits after returning from Luskan (took me a lot of willpower to even get that far).

No thanks, I'll take NWN2 over NWN1 any time (and any of the IE games over either at that), while the OC of that game wasn't exactly the stuff of legends either it wasn't anywhere near the levels of bad of the one from NWN2...

It's literally been years since an RPG has really sucked me in (ME1 or DA:O, whichever came last, guessing DA:O did) so yeah, pretty high expectations for this game smile

EDIT: well, you could make an argument for ME2 too, the individual stories were mint, the overal story was seriously lacking though. Skyrim had a nice world, but a story? Hardly.

Last edited by theBlackDragon; 26/11/13 02:11 PM.

* as usual this is imho (unless stated otherwise); feel free to disagree, ignore or try to change my mind. Agreeing with me is ofc also allowed, but makes for much worse flamewarsarguments.

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We're all getting too used to fantasy after so many examples that I think we're just asking for more than writers can even come up with.

That is, if publishing didn't get in the way of the writing.


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EinTroll #475419 27/11/13 12:58 PM
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Hum. I liked DA:O but not the combat mechanics; I thought ME1-2-3 were fun (I think i enjoyed ME-1 the most but I had no regrets with ME-2,3). The problem with NWN1 vs NWN2 is polar opposite. The community loved NWN1 because the tools were very good but teh 'demo' campaign really sucked; NWN2 had a better campaign but the tools really sucked smile
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I'm trying to decide on the last RPG I really liked; the thing isthat I played DKS late (after DA:O) and enjoyed it significantly more; I played ME-3 just about 6 months ago and liked it but not as much as DKS; and I'm not sure we can call games like king bounty and space ranger 2 RPG but if so I really like king bounty series ('cept the last one which sucked worse than bad)
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The thing is that I can't think of any recent games by Obsidian that I've played. Well I did play dungeon siege which was ok and I liked nwn2; but i missed fallout las vegas; and I think that is the game most people think as obsidian last major effort (well south park but that isn't out yet).

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