Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta High heels? *Stiletto* high heels? Really?

...well, yes, here we are. I worried it'd just be rage and flames when I started this thread. It certainly hasn't all been though, and I'm glad of that. Several people have quite calmly expressed opinions both for and against, which I appreciate greatly.

Some have pointed out that the alpha is about finding bugs, not changing the content, and that is a fair point. It was a little late to start this kind of discussion, at least with the hope of affecting change in the game.

Still, as I've stated before, I wanted communication about it moreso than I truly expected anything to change from it. So I apologize for putting this up in the alpha forums, it would have been better in the general forums. I'd like to say though, that the post was made due to genuine feelings, not a hunger for controversy or attention. I hope you can believe that even if you dislike the fuss I've raised.

(As an aside, I am not too familiar with the forum mechanics, but the topic could perhaps be moved to general forums?)

The thread might not have quite caught fire, but there's a touch more vitriol than is conducive to communication. Cutter, if you were not deliberately trolling in order to enrage, then I believe you've failed, and you were not alone in doing so. Please, I truly believe that most everyone here are nice people, so even if we differ in opinions, let's stay polite and civil, yeah? We'll all be better off, and as a bonus, I promise, we'll feel better about ourselves

A major point from the con side is the silliness of arguing over impractical shoes in a magical fantasy fiction. This is true, it is not inherently more disruptive to the believability of the world than, say, using a carved pumpkin as a helmet But I wanted us to talk about the why of it: not "why should we change the shoes to not have high heels?", but "why was the assumption that she would wear high heels?" We know well that female warriors in the real world wear just as practical shoes as their male counterparts, so doing differently in our fiction is a deliberate change, and we are better for understanding why we expect it. Is it just 'cause we like our characters looking good? (I'm on board) And we'll fudge a bit of realism? (no problem for me) Because we think women look better in high heels? (that's where I disagree, but obviously, there's not gonna be time and resources to fit everyone's personal preferences) That's my working theory, but I'd like to hear from other people as well, since I didn't agree with the decision, I might well be wrong about the reasoning behind it.

But yes, the shoes in particular are a small sliver of gender culture, which is tied to more than this one aspect of gender inequality. And actually, it's because Larian's been good about so much of the gender issue that the shoes stood out to me as bothersome. It is part of a complex tangle of culture and history (as I remember, the fashion started amongst soldiers who wanted to keep their shoes out of the mud, though the design was obviously a little bit different at that time )



TL;DR, this is probably the most important part:

Perhaps it boils down to this:
1) Culturally, there is a predilection for female fashions being more impractical and hindersome than male fashions.
2) The origins of this, is at least in part based on an historical inequality in what women and men were expected or allowed to do.
These two points I think we're all pretty much on board with?
The point of conflict as I understand it then is:
3) Some people, one of whom is me, feel that persisting the tradition of "women's clothes are impractical" also to some degree persists the prejudice "women are less suited to practical endeavors". And also that video games and fantasy fiction are important enough (certainly to me), that it's worth arguing the point here as well.



Sorry for returning and unloading a massive wall of text after leaving the thread untended: it's christmas time, you know how it is

Eh? High heels and impractical clothes thread? They never go well, especially those about bikini armor .
Anyways, I'm a girl and I'm not bothered by impractical clothes in this game. I think the models and armor are quite nice and animation is well done as well (although I haven't seen what wizards robes look like, they seem to be invisible in the alpha). This game series has a fantasy world for a setting, so it's not trying to recreate some historical accuracy or preconceptions about what women should or should not wear. So if women in this setting prefer high heel boots or whatever it's their right, I see no qualms here, as long as the clothes they are wearing are not ugly looking. Like it was in the first Dragon Age - that leather armor still haunts me.

Actually if you want to bring up origins. High heels were not gender specific. They used to be more of a class symbol then a feminine symbol. even today mens shoes sometimes have heels.

As for why, well it is a different world with different rules. we don't know if there is some lore specific detail that says "High heeled shoes are made with balance enchantments to make them as practical as flat footwear"

Personally I would find it awesome if you could give male character female clothing. Look at it from the saints row perspective. who cares how the character dresses or even looks, as long as the character is a "Strong" character. Saints row 2-4 doesn't care if you play a woman, a man, a Drag queen. the character remains the same throughout.

Fable is the same. My first playthrough of 3 was a female character, the second was male and I made said male a Princess. He would walk up to his throne the same way he would approach his enemies. In heels and a dress and an air of authority and confidence.

Looking at the NPC's the women are dressed much the same as the men. Peasant garb and flat shoes for working.

As members of an elite and privileged class we want to stand out and demand attention. This means impractical and impressive garb trumps utility. When a source-mage walks into the room, people whisper, they look with envy, they gossip and they hide but most importantly they notice.

Dressing sexy is hardly a new tactic.

Well, I was about to post something as well.

I never really noticed it until I started playing, but yes, it completely drove me mad.

As a female, seeing a woman wearing such shoes in various types of sand (wet, dry, etc.) and not see her getting stuck drove me crazy. And then she goes walking through rocks, gravel, soft dirt, etc. and.. still... nothing! How is she having zero difficulty walking through all these types of terrain?

When the upper class decide to wear stilettos, they avoid such terrain. When the upper class decides to go through this type of terrain while wearing stilettos, they have someone or something carry them.

Therefore, these heels are impractical in every way as I do not see anyone or anything carrying Scarlett around.

Now, if Scarlett were to somehow have a side ability that says she is immune to getting stuck and tripping while wearing high heels, then fine, I'll buy that reason. But as far as this alpha goes, I did not see such an ability.

I'd vote for a game where the main character was carried around in a sedan chair all the time.

I think we're all in agreement that there's nothing wrong with scarlet wearing high heels, but some of us would like the option for her to wear boots.

Well, you don't talk for me. ;P
The stilletos are looking weird and I would prefer "normal" footwear. I have to take a look later, but I have a feeling besides Scarlett there is no other female NPC wearing them. So it's just a stereotype thing about nerds needing the "boobfactor" in games. It doesn't kill me and I would play it nonethless, but I would really prefer a choice as it looks and feels childish (sorry, about that, it's just an opinion).

Except her clothing is rather tame, and her boobs unnoticable. all it is, is a pair of boots with heels. And you didn't read their post properly. it reads. "There isn't anything wrong for scarlett to wear high heels, but options would be good to have."

Well, ehm, I was a bit sleepy then.

>Registered: 01/10/2003
>Posts: 2

Riiight.


Oh, and here is silly me thinking it is Larian who is developing the game, not you, and you have no right to demand anything, be you a backer or not.
Such an ignorant fool am I, huh.

1. There wasn't anything demanded and this is about feedback.
2. Ignorant and fool you are with words like these, yes.

You always could read the whole thread you decided to participate in, instead of just few posts on the last page.
"Just saying".

Well, honestly? J.Thurlow's tone in this entire thread didn't seem anywhere near of a "demand". Your hostility towards him felt somewhat undeserved.


In any case, I prefer her not wearing high heels, and an option would be nice. It's not really a big deal, though: years of being exposed to Korean fantasy design has practically numbed me to this kind of stuff.

Yep, that was the first thing I noticed that bothered me.

So you don't want those of us that don't give a crap to even have the OPTION to have heels? Wow, you are such a nice person, denying people what they want in a video game just because you don't like it.



Don't lie, you were trying to start crap by spouting falsehoods and BS that has nothing to do with D:OS.

1. I was a bit sleepy then and got the thing the other way around.
2. I wrote I'd like the option, but either you were sleepy too or ... well ...
3. Stop attacking someone personal with made up "facts" because you can't discuss on topic.



You should take less drugs and go back to the topic.

I still find it really funny that these topics last more than a page. We're in Alpha folks, expect the characters to change and character creation to get more juicy as time goes on.

If you have a problem with how a character looks, make a suggestion but please don't turn it into a monster thread, we have much more important things to highlight in this phase such as bugs

I've used my ample MSPaint skills to draft up what I feel is a suitable solution to this issue. Larian, I release this idea royalty free for your usage in improving DOS.

That made my day!^^