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I'm totally on board with better skills for Rogues. I think a stealth that lasts a turn so you can re-position for a backstab would also be good. Attacks while stealthed deal more damage but cost way more AP. Stealthed has a higher chance of backstab maybe? I hadn't actually thought about throwing knives. That would be great as well. But yes better skills are needed for Rogue.

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Originally Posted by lokitrixter
I think a stealth that lasts a turn so you can re-position for a backstab would also be good. Attacks while stealthed deal more damage but cost way more AP. Stealthed has a higher chance of backstab maybe?

yep, pretty good idea. I think the currently biggest problem is that neither the way of the warrior nor the way of the ranger (not to speak of the way of the wizard...) represent the play style of a rogue. You don't have many abilities which he/she benefits from. Either they have to put a "second way" into the survivor abilities or split it up in a ranger and rogue part.


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Originally Posted by Razzmann
Either they have to put a "second way" into the survivor abilities or split it up in a ranger and rogue part.

I would prefer having Way of the Rogue added on it's own. That way you don't have to put points into Ranger and have no need for the perks you would get just to get to one or two for Rogue.

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Originally Posted by lokitrixter
Originally Posted by Razzmann
Either they have to put a "second way" into the survivor abilities or split it up in a ranger and rogue part.

I would prefer having Way of the Rogue added on it's own. That way you don't have to put points into Ranger and have no need for the perks you would get just to get to one or two for Rogue.

I think you misunderstood me wink
I want a separate way for the rogue as well, i just wondered whether they should put this way into the survivor part or make a whole new part with other abilities particular for the rogue smile


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A new Rogue section would be good. That way you can tweak things like stealth time, thrown dagger distance, dagger damage, etc. Otherwise the Ranger/Survivor section would be ridiculously long.

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Indeed. I also think that "Charm" does not fit to the rogue. I believe Larian ran out of ideas which starting skills they should give to the rogue.
Also, it is pretty weird that the resurrecting spell requires way of the ranger skill. I think it should be a classless spell, so you do not have to have a mage (or as it is currently a ranger) in your party to resurrect your characters.


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I personally think that, at this moment, Rogues aren't starter characters. Charm and Silence are the only "Combat Skills" they have. I need to be able to close the distance in one turn to hit an enemy. Or at least have some sort of distance skill so I can do something at the start of a fight instead of walking to the enemy. I'm hoping it was just an answer to the "Add more classes" thing and they will be fleshed out later.

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Originally Posted by lokitrixter
I personally think that, at this moment, Rogues aren't starter characters. Charm and Silence are the only "Combat Skills" they have. I need to be able to close the distance in one turn to hit an enemy. Or at least have some sort of distance skill so I can do something at the start of a fight instead of walking to the enemy. I'm hoping it was just an answer to the "Add more classes" thing and they will be fleshed out later.

actually I have pretty high speed (which maybe should be a passive skill for them?) so I can get to/behind enemies with 3-4 action points. Nonetheless maybe they should get a skill with which they can teleport themselves behind an enemy and make a critical hit but therefore his/her turn is automatically over.


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Yeah, I can see a bunch of Rogue improvements:

  • I'd like to see a 'Way of the Rogue' skill like the Way of the Ranger. Way of the Ranger and Warrior are great, but the first is aimed at ranged attackers, and the second and big tanky guys.

    Way of the Rogue
    Rank 1: Improved Reflexes - increases chance to Evade attacks ( Evasion = Reflexes + [1-3% * Way of The Rogue (depending on how Evasion is calculated)]
    Rank 2: +25% Increased Movement while Sneaking
    Rank 3:
    Rank 4: +2 Recovery AP per turn
    Rank 5: +15% Increased Critical Hit Damage
  • One of the problems with Rogues is that a player with 5 Sneak gets only about 4.5 meters of enemy sight reduction compared to a player with 0 Sneak, and that's really not enough to let you actually sneak up. Only if you know the ambush is there can you sneak around from behind.
  • I was also toying with the idea that Rogues could get a "Combat Roll" skill, which lets them move across terrain (but not teleport like Tactical Retreat). Maybe it lets them move fast while preserving Sneak status, but the player takes 50% more damage from any damaging terrain?
  • Rogues could also use a second class of weapon: Blackjacks. In terms of gameplay, Blackjacks would be basically the Crushing damage equivalent of daggers. Same AP cost, same low damage, same ability to Backstab, but unlike Daggers, these could be of use against the Undead.

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Well I would suggest as a combat skill a Stealth that isn't the same as Sneak. With Stealth you would be completely invisible for a turn (or two) and be able to move around the battlefield. Now while in Stealth you would of course have a limited movement (could be offset at higher level Stealth or with using points into a stat). Attacking would of course bring you out of Stealth. And while in Stealth AP usage is higher, with increased damage (possibly) or just higher chance to Backstab, and maybe lower chance to hit while in Stealth (could again be offset at higher level Stealth or with points in a stat).

EDIT: If in range for attack of opportunity while in Stealth and you try to move, there is a chance you will fail and Stealth will be broken, resulting in increased damage for 1 turn.


Last edited by lokitrixter; 06/02/14 10:45 PM.
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Good afternoon.
Me as a player, playing mostly soldiers torturing one question:
will it be possible in the game to use two swords ?
I did not notice in the alpha version of such a possibility , but I (and I think a lot ) I would like to grow a good two - swordsman in the game.
Please make this opportunity and the game will become even more attractive place for lovers of rude sword .

p.s. I have a bad English , and this may be an opportunity in the game at the moment, please comment my question.

and still would like to know when will the new patch? interesting to see how the game develops , and that it added a new ...

I bought an alpha version and look forward to the full version . Thank you for what you are doing a good game ...

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Unfortunately there is no way to use two weapons. That may possibly get added at some point (see the topic Dual wielding).

The next patch should probably be released early next week.

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Originally Posted by Razzmann
I don't know whether this was already mentioned, but i think a rogue is too weak. Outside of combat he is pretty useful, but in fight he has a big lack of skills or abilities. Maybe he should be able to use little bombs or throwing knives (which would be craft able) more effectively, just like a ranger can use arrows. And maybe Larina should put in an alternative way to the Way of the Ranger. The new "way" could have a bonus on critical damage/chance and on lvl 5 the area where you can back stab enemies becomes a little bit bigger.
And maybe he could get some skills like he disappears until the end of the round and at the beginning of the next round he appears in an area (which you determined right when you used the skill) and deals critical damage to all enemies nearby, but you're action points in this round get halved.
Just some thoughts... smile


Rogue doesn't feel like a rogue, although it's not that relevant given these are not really classes but starter skill presets. Rogues tend to quickly become warriors with lockpick or rangers with lockpick.

To change that, I would suggest we simply choose 3 skills from the available starter skill pool at character creation, rather than trying to create classes in a game that lets you pick from everything available.

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Originally Posted by Maali
Originally Posted by Razzmann
I don't know whether this was already mentioned, but i think a rogue is too weak. Outside of combat he is pretty useful, but in fight he has a big lack of skills or abilities. Maybe he should be able to use little bombs or throwing knives (which would be craft able) more effectively, just like a ranger can use arrows. And maybe Larina should put in an alternative way to the Way of the Ranger. The new "way" could have a bonus on critical damage/chance and on lvl 5 the area where you can back stab enemies becomes a little bit bigger.
And maybe he could get some skills like he disappears until the end of the round and at the beginning of the next round he appears in an area (which you determined right when you used the skill) and deals critical damage to all enemies nearby, but you're action points in this round get halved.
Just some thoughts... smile


Rogue doesn't feel like a rogue, although it's not that relevant given these are not really classes but starter skill presets. Rogues tend to quickly become warriors with lockpick or rangers with lockpick.


Sure, but if they give you the possibility to start as a rogue you should be able to stay a rogue.


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I think the rogue is quite efficient in combat and generally all classes more balanced. Now I play only with 2 characters (rogue + mage) and they give me lots of different strategic options. Some fights, especially later in the game, are quite easy.

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Originally Posted by AmenhotepIII
I think the rogue is quite efficient in combat and generally all classes more balanced. Now I play only with 2 characters (rogue + mage) and they give me lots of different strategic options. Some fights, especially later in the game, are quite easy.

Sorry, but I can't agree with you. Can you name some examples? smile In my current play through I play as a rogue & mage as well, but especially later in the game are pretty difficult.

Last edited by Razzmann; 07/02/14 09:40 PM.

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It was probably already mentioned but I want make sure it was said wink :
the "Hail Attack" (shooting multiple shards of ice) seems to be a bit broken. For example if the first shard freezes the enemy but he succeeds the saving throw against freezing on the last shard he is not frozen any more (I hope you get what I'm trying to say). So you have to freeze the enemy with the last shard in order to keep him frozen during the next round.
Same goes for the "Deadly Spores", where the enemies get poisoned by the first spore. However they succeed their saving throw against poisoning when the other spores hit them and then they are cured...
Oh and Madora is wet all the time, there is the "wet" symbol next to her character picture but without a number saying for how long.

Last edited by Razzmann; 07/02/14 10:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by Razzmann
Sorry, but I can't agree with you. Can you name some examples? smile In my current play through I play as a rogue & mage as well, but especially later in the game are pretty difficult.

I have a fire/earth mage with mostly offensive spells. The ranger has a high range of view with way of the ranger and a ranged weapon. Later in the game it costs 3 AP for bow action and 5 AP for crossbow. Since the drops are "tuned" to your class, I find a lot of both and usually use the one with higher damage/AP rate. With "Barriage" skill you can even kill the orc leader in one round. The enemies don't come at you en masse so you eliminate them one by one.

The ranger can attack first with good accuracy from <20m when the enemy is disorganised. I use pure power smile - almost only offensive spells (mage) and basic range attack (ranger). Charm or Silence helped at the early stage. In fact, at the early stage I had to avoid 2-3 particular fights, cause their were very challenging (like 'twins' or bandits).

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Originally Posted by AmenhotepIII
Originally Posted by Razzmann
Sorry, but I can't agree with you. Can you name some examples? smile In my current play through I play as a rogue & mage as well, but especially later in the game are pretty difficult.

I have a fire/earth mage with mostly offensive spells. The ranger has a high range of view with way of the ranger and a ranged weapon. Later in the game it costs 3 AP for bow action and 5 AP for crossbow. Since the drops are "tuned" to your class, I find a lot of both and usually use the one with higher damage/AP rate. With "Barriage" skill you can even kill the orc leader in one round. The enemies don't come at you en masse so you eliminate them one by one.

The ranger can attack first with good accuracy from <20m when the enemy is disorganised. I use pure power smile - almost only offensive spells (mage) and basic range attack (ranger). Charm or Silence helped at the early stage. In fact, at the early stage I had to avoid 2-3 particular fights, cause their were very challenging (like 'twins' or bandits).

You are using a RANGER as your second character. What we are talking about is the ROGUE archetype. That class is underdeveloped at this stage. Rangers/Survivors are a decent class to have in your party.

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Sorry. My bad smile

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