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Motoman Offline OP
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OK, I finished the game a few days ago...couple thoughts:

1. Overall, fabulous game...way better than D2 in nearly every aspect.

2. Killing the Demon of Lies was way too easy - in comparison, killing Josephine was a major pain in the butt, and I'd nearly considered it to be impossible. Eventually, different tactics got me through Josephine (barely), but I destroyed the Demon on the first try without much trouble at all. Killing the end-of-game boss should be the biggest tactical challenge of the game - this time, it was a ho-hum affair.

3. When you get transported to the land of Orcs, it would have been nice to have been able to go back to Rivellon and/or the Dark Forest - I had a few quests to finish up, and some items in my house in Verdistis that I would have liked to have access to.

4. Now my game is over...not sure I'll play again from scratch. One of the things that I really liked about D2 was that you could replay (at a higher level) with the same character - it would have been really great if you could do that in DD. I'd have played it as many times as there were levels of difficulty.

5. I thought the game was a bit short...sure, it kept me mesmerized during gaming time, but I don't think I spent all that much time on it. Another "land" to go through would have been appreciated.

6. Overall, I thought there were too few tactical challenges - only a couple times in the game did I encounter fight scenes that I couldn't handle right away on the first try...I think that it would enhance the drama and realism of the game if there were more fight scenes that you would be forced to run for your life from the first couple of tries...

7. I think the open areas in the wilderness should have re-populated with monsters over time. That way you have an ample supply of monsters to fight to gain experience and/or wealth from should you need to do so. I habitually "clear" all of the wilderness as soon as I can - and then there's nobody left to play with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

8. I don't remember at what point, but at some point when I entered a labyrinth I automatically had the entire labyrinth map available - I think it's better to have to discover it.

9. I had considerable instability problems with the game - made a habit of quick-saving all the freakin' time. Naturally, more stability would be more better.

10. Another thing that I really liked about D2 (maybe the only other thing) was that you could hire mercenaries to buddy up with you, and give them your extra armor and weapons. Along the same lines, it would have been neat if NPCs might have joined up with you, maybe based on your reputation and how you interact with them. I thought it was a bit of a downer not being able to have more than one character on your side (I don't count summoned creatures, even though you might have the skill to command them. They're stupid, weak, and don't add the same dimension to the game as a merc or NPC would).

11. I did notice, but not use, some hacking utilities being made available. I think that's a bit of a downer too - especially since in DD there wasn't much "need" to hack a character. I know there's only so much the developer can do, but I'd like to see it be very difficult if at all possible to hack the game. Hacking is cheating, pure and simple.

12. Multiplayer! Hello! Is this thing on...? Not neccessarily on-line, but at least a LAN version would be nice...

13. Something that I think any RPG would be greatly benefitted by, although to my knowledge no one has ever done, is to release a campaign editor. If there was a campaign editor for DD, the game would never die - gamers would post new campaigns to their websites and the re-palyablity of the game would be endless...you could sell the game in retail outlets for years and not have to do any further game development yourself! If you look at other games, notably RTS or turn-based strategy such as Heroes of Might & Magic, there are buttloads of custom, user-developed maps and campaigns for them - I for one have as much fun building campaigns as I do playing them. You could even package up the best user-made campaigns (with legal verbage around any custom capaigns being made are free for you to use - no one would complain) and sell them as expansion packs!

Anyhoo, I guess I'll leave it at lucky #13. As I noted, I really enjoyed this game, and am quite glad I bought it and referred it to friends. It's probably too late for RR to look at any of these ideas, but maybe the next one...


<edit> OK, one more - kill the #$@%ing baby!!! It makes no sense to let it live! KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Motoman; 20/07/03 05:36 PM.
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thanks for your thoughts Motoman <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

indeed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> had it's flaws ofcours.
we discussed the game in allot of topics on these forums. and we did it verry deeply as i may say soo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

thanks to the feedback of the forum members the Larians
implement alot of these new thoughts into there next game!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> is the upcommin game with all the things we wanted in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> ! (except for the multiplayer part)

more info you can find at the officially riftrunner site site
or the unofficialy FAQ, at the locus inn


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I agree with you very much especially on the mercenary part. I like Neverwinter Nights because your mercenary was smart (most of the time) and make you feel like you are not alone in the loneliness of killing rediculous number of monster <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
And I think that there is a lot of situation when you have to run away from the danger. One example for me is when I was in the basement of Imp's Desert Castle. I walk into a room full of Insane Skeleton, so I decide to run away, but I run into even more! Soon I have so much following me I give up and die (Feignt Death <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />) and let me Steel Scorpion do everything for me.
I also like this game very much because it is a nice change. I have play so many game when all you do is kill everything you see. It is nice to see most of quest is helping people steal from other and wash dish <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The thing I really hate about the game is knowing it will have to end sooner or later <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

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Ending sucks...I hate that you can't decide...I want to kill the Lord of Chaos...

Overall the game is 7 out 10. D2 is 8 out of 10. DD ruines the greatness by having crappy wasteland, bugs, broken skills, and medicore story telling. It would be great if there is multiple ending based on your reputation and class.
In term of hack and slash, D2 is five times better than DD. In term of role-playing, Baldur Gate series is ten times better than DD.

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Ending sucks...I hate that you can't decide...I want to kill the Lord of Chaos...

But what of the sequal? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Quote
Overall the game is 7 out 10. D2 is 8 out of 10. DD ruines the greatness by having crappy wasteland, bugs, broken skills, and medicore story telling. It would be great if there is multiple ending based on your reputation and class.
In term of hack and slash, D2 is five times better than DD. In term of role-playing, Baldur Gate series is ten times better than DD.

I can agree with all of that, although Diablo 2 would only be 7 out of 10 - it was far too repeatative. I see Divine Divinity as the prototype. Now that it has been played half to death and so much feedback has been gathered, I will expect a lot more from subsequent Divinity games.

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The reason why D2 got 8/10 is the replay value. DD lacks replay value because there is no big difference between class. I hate that you can kill all the monsters in wasteland by using a sword as a mage. I hate that as a warrior, you can cast lightening and various mage spells. In D2, barb, necro, amazon, and sorceress offer significant gameplay experience. I guess that balance issue is the major weakness in DD.

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I think, it's up to you whether there is a difference in "classes" or not.

I like the game, because I believe that "classes" are not natural.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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I agree with Alrik.

I like the idea of having one char. with different skills.
Instead of having to choose from a so typical mage or warrior or ... you can be whatever you want.
You still can play a pure mage if you want.
But others may not like that. The option to be whatever you want is not a weakness but one of the strong points of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />


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but it is not logical that a mage can learn all skills of a warrior fully
i think they should be limited
for example warrior skills should be limited to level 3-4 for a mage or a survivor...etc... lol i started out with a mage i am almost a pure warrior <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

btw the class difference in d2 sucked i really hated them some classes were obviously stronger than others i didnt like d2 at all.

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i started out with a mage i am almost a pure warrior <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Your own destiny was to be a warrior and not a mage !

I like the idea of a campaign editor. It's nice to make our own maps and storys with the characters of the game.




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uh, about decideing on killing the lord of chaos, technicly speaking the game never states weather or not you kill it, it leaves it open to your imagination, i personly really like this, it just shows you picking teh baby up and picking up the knife, then cuts to outside (well, lets be honist, seeing somone stab a little baby, deamon of lies or not, is a pretty horrific thing, so im glad they didnt show it) so personly, i think its left up to you to decide what your character did <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Well Motoman some of the things you mentioned will be implemented in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> and among them:
-This time the ending was made at the beginning so as not to mess it up.
-The people at Larian Studios said the style of battles is to change - there will be more worthy opponents
-randomly created areas with random quests and hordes of enemies (should do as a source of XP)
-You will be able to recruit a party

Other than that I have two thoughts about points 3 and 13:
Remember that you descended to Rivelon (as a Divinity) after a few long months during which The Lord of Chaos roamed the land. I'm not sure whether you would find either your belongings or recognize the places. The idea of not being able to return there seem quite logical to me.

A campaign editor may be a good idea but I am sceptical - many people have an urge to create (which is good) and place everything they make in the Web (not necessarily as good...). I am afraid of having to look through dozens of small, not too well made campaigns in order to find that one worth the time. On the other hand if the editor wouldn't be simple enough it would be hard to find any campaigns - regardless the quality and as the editor would be complex the campaigns would probably mostly lack depth (see the example of Arcanum)

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About killing that baby at the end of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> 1 : Indirectly Lar has revealed that the hero did not kill the baby. In an interview about Riftrunner, the former baby was called "The Damned One" as a nemesis to "The Divine One".



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"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Personnally I have always liked to continue the Game after the ending, like you go back to Kroxy, Zandalor and Arthu of course and listen to the wonderful things you have done, maybe be able to go back to Rivellon proper and finish some quests that just didn't seem that important, hey I mean here I am about to save the world and I am going of on a quest to figure out what happened to this Merchants caravan (very cliche btw IMHO) I mean really the world's coming to an end !!

So yeah, instead of the credits ( which ARE important, but you can always see them later ) Maybe a portal back to Aleroth, however that's really all the critique I have <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Mea Culpa's Demesne Note; artwork for Avatar courtesy of NWN and CEP Old Elven Saying: "Never say Never if you're gonna live forever!!!" "I didn't do it, it wasn't my fault"
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My thoughts on just stuff so far and obviously because I havn't completed the game yet, I have no thoughts on the ending.

I'm not starting a debate and I know that the Diablo games are always being mentioned, so I will just say how I personally feel. In no way, shape or form should Larian ever try to create a game like the Diablo games. Sure, go ahead and improve on character creation and combat because there is nothing wrong with that. Just because Divinity has hack n' slash involved doesn't mean it's got anything to do with Diablo. If you want to try and win some new fans over by improving the combat, so be it.

Personally I feel Diablo 2 is nothing more than a fancy arcade game made for the computer. No disrespect to the game or the people that like because I can't take away what it has already accomplished. But in my eyes it is nothing more than that and replay value is like playing Space Invaders. There are all your enemies coming at you, now kill them for the one hundredth time. It's just too easy to play the game over and over say that they created replay value.

Divinity is a classic and they have created a living and breathing world. Sorry to say but all good things will finally come to an end. I'll take the game with any faults and small imperfections as long as it stays true to itself. I don't want the fighting or story to be like other games. Of course still improve on what you have but don't change to be something different.

I think you have won over alot of fans because of the adventuring feel the game offers also. Should I try to compare this game to King's Quest, that would be pointless. Divinity offers roleplaying, adventuring and action all in one game which creates a fantastic world. My thoughts are to keep all these qualities together which makes Divinity a classic.

The only thoughts I could offer to Larian is not to let people break down what makes the game so strong. Separating each feature and finding their weakness only to improve on them is fine. But by all means, please put it back together the same way. Don't sacrifice any great features of the game to make another one better.

You have a classic game and you have to ask yourself what made it so.






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"You have a classic game and you have to ask yourself what made it so."

Sorry about that, nothing bad meant in that statement and I know you know what makes it so great. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

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"You have a classic game and you have to ask yourself what made it so."

Sorry about that, nothing bad meant in that statement and I know you know what makes it so great. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />


Staples, there was nothing which could be seen as bad meant in this statement.
You don´t have to be so careful here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, glad you like the game. The Larians (and we gamers) know what makes <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> such a great game. The passion to create a game for gamers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />


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"You have a classic game and you have to ask yourself what made it so."


Well, for a gamer (me) preferring the "classic" way, I see no "bad statement" in this, Staples <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - and just a guess: As the Larians are now creating Riftrunner, planning Div 2 and as Lar is dreaming about Div 3, I'm sure there will be consistency in the Divinity universe - with everything I like about it:

their world with all its loveable details,
sadistic Larian humour,
quests driving me crazy,
Kirill's wonderful music (the only game so far where I didn't turn off music BTW),
creating a char I want to without having to bother about class restrictions etc. etc.

The only thing I will have to say a sad Farewell to -> 2D is going to change into 3D, sniff.

If you should feel disappointed about the last part of Div, Staples -> a lot had to be taken out due to time restriction...
Kiya

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Heya and thanks for the kind replies.

I'm new to the forum and I really didn't want to step on any toes yet. Other than that it is smooth sailing with this game so far and no matter what kind of ending it has I will be fine. I'll never dimiss an entire game for a couple parts I may not care for.

If I am playing it to the end, then damn sure there is a good reason for that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />

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Oh yeah, I forgot one thing.

I am with you all the way kiya on the music. I can't believe I havn't mentioned this yet myself, since it is one of the things that I do take notice of in all games.

Music is the soul and this game is alive, simply outstanding!

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