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Originally Posted by Aramintai
Ok, here's a mock-up of what you guys are suggesting with all stacks expanded, in whooping 2560x1440 resolution no less:
[Linked Image]

Wow, Aramintai! Thanks a lot for doing this mockup! I really liked seeing nothing less than 75 skills stacked and sorted up like that! birthdayjump wave

Now, keep in mind that all those skills would only show up when you right click over an empty slot, something that probably would't happen so often after the hotbar is set. All the other times you'd right click over an occupied slot, only the category of that thing you just clicked would show up. Then left click over your choice to make the stack disappear and bring the selected thing to the slot you right clicked. That could be used not only with skills, but also with potions, arrows, weapons and just about anything you can put at the hotbar. Got it?

Still, IMO there's nothing preventing the stacks of each category to occupy two columns or even being positioned horizontally. There certainly are many ways around going "through the roof".


Originally Posted by Aramintai

That's what hotbar is for. It just needs to be elongated and have more layers, 9 maybe.

Ok. But imagine yourself cycling thought NINE layers of the hot bar, trying to decide what to do or to quickly review your options in a fight. And also having to look for some odd spell that you don't use that much but you know is there... somewhere. Cycle, cycle, cycle...

Call me lazy, but imagine all the work we'd have, dragging lots and lots of stuff to those 9 layers of elongated hotbars and organizing everything manually. Do we really want that? Aren't we asking for an inventory auto-sorting functionality because there's too many things and we're too lazy to sort them ourselves?

Also notice that an elongated hotbar other than occupying permanent screen real state, mess up with the hotkeys and look rather ugly, would also take space away from the chat and the log windows. Now tell me this isn't cluttering up the view.


Originally Posted by Hiver

I figured that this kind of concept would not show all of the available skills and items from all categories at once, but rather - only those that are in the category you clicked on. (after the first time)

So for example, once you put a fire spell in the hotbar - the next time you would right click on it - only the fire spells would appear above it, once you put a potion in the slot - only potions would appear above it. etc.

- this would require a more broad list of all skills and items for the first usage, but the inventory and skill list as they are can be used for that initial choices and placement -

After that initial setup when you right click on any specific spell or item - only spells and items of that specific category would show up stacked above. So you would see only fire spells, or only Air spells, or only potions, or only weapons... etc.

Arranged whichever way is better, of course.
At least, thats how i imagined it.

You got that right, Hiver! That's exactly what I imagine too.


Originally Posted by Hiver
There is no obscuring the screen when these stacks only appear momentarily and then disappear once youve chosen a specific spell, item or a skill.
If only specific categories are shown then its even less icons on the screen at once.
- That simply isnt an argument that can be used as objection against this kind of setup.


Expanding the hotbar is an obvious way to go about this but im figuring that since it isnt already expanded, that Larian wants to keep it smaller. As it is. And im just trying to work with whats there now.


None of this means that a specific suggestion must be or that it will be accepted.
We are making different suggestions here and devs will look it over and eventually do something about it. Or not.
Thats all.

You just wrote down what I was thinking. Nice! hehe


Originally Posted by Stabbey

That said, some of the things I've heard suggest that a larger hotbar may be less necessary, at least for the next patch.

Cool! Would you mind sharing some of that privileged information with us, Stabbey? rolleyes

Last edited by Pitheco; 10/05/14 06:08 AM.
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Originally Posted by Hiver

None of this means that a specific suggestion must be or that it will be accepted.
We are making different suggestions here and devs will look it over and eventually do something about it. Or not.
Thats all.

Yea, that's true. I've got a feeling that they won't do much change to UI at this point due to time constraints, but who knows.
In any case, since you're not providing mock-ups for your suggestion I've made one for you:
[Linked Image]
Correct me if this is wrong.

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Thanks. Now put one of those spell icons into the hotbar instead of that generic Air element magic one, arrange the icons above so the level one are closest to the hotbar, level two spells above them, level three spells above those and so on.

Make each line as long as necessary - horizontally. There doesnt need to be any space left for other types of spells since one element would replace the other.

That should be it.

Of course, you dont have to actually do it, this is just a description.
I didnt have time to make something like it.

maybe ill try something tomorrow.

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I would love to have the Journal into more like a book than a scroll so you can flip through the pages and select tabs for quests, characters, lore, and other things making it more essential than the scroll UI that is currently been used...

Another thing I would love to see is able to modified the short cuts so you can be able to change it skill bar into the old skill system from the Divine Divinity vise versa...

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Huh, yeah, it could be a book and the different tabs could be bookmarks sticking out.

On the other hand though, there could be a LOT of pages to flip through for some things, which would be inconvenient if looking for a specific thing.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Huh, yeah, it could be a book and the different tabs could be bookmarks sticking out.

On the other hand though, there could be a LOT of pages to flip through for some things, which would be inconvenient if looking for a specific thing.


Not really because it could be separated by different Tabs, like one for recipes, quests and rewards, Lore, characters that have simple facts about them, And trophies...

It could be really handy than a scroll o.o;;;

Also who would be writing detail information on a scroll and it will be extremely long and messy smirk

Last edited by Minchi1983; 10/05/14 11:08 PM.
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I really hope that we get a new combat status system for the monsters because I just don't like to have the current battle system that shows the monster lvl and that pretty much downs the experience of random encounters because it pretty much just tell ya you need to be on that lvl to beat the monster.

Why not just hide that information and have talent or ability that you need to learn to tell how strong the monsters are...

And also have a feature in the journal where it tell the stats of the monster and what they drop but if you first encounter the monster it would just have the name and most of other information about this beast all not fill in and when you continue to run into those monsters and battling through them the item drops and stats gets filled in after the encounters...

I think with this feature it would increase the lore of the game and also adds in a collection of monster encounters in the game and also increase the game play value as well...

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I agree Minchi. That should be also be dependent on Perception.


One thing i would like to see improved is responsiveness of icons in the hotbar.

Sometimes I use some low level spells to break down the doors, and i switch between Scarlet flare spell and Jahan lightning bolt, to do it quicker.

Yet, not only do spells have a short cooldown - which is not necessary outside of combat, but i cant really switch between those two quickly. I have to wait for a second or second and a half and then click onto another character portrait and then choose the spell.

The cooldown for spells is not that of a problem here, even though it isnt necessary but the fact that i cannot quickly switch between the characters.
In combat that sometimes really buggs me - and often prevents me from saving a character or a companion that wandered into some poison or burning surface - once the combat ends, or in cases of some sudden trap.


It would be really nice if this was made more responsive - quicker.


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Yeah I agree with ya Hiver,

Because some of the spells in battle the cool down is way off and makes it even harder to just cast when your heat of battle and you need wait for the spell to cool down and you get killed by monster that moves extremely fast...

Some times when you click on the icon on the skill bar you need to be exact or the spell does not cast and your character just move closer to the monster and gets killed...

Oh yeah Hiver what do u think about the Journal does it need an upgrade because the Scroll approach looks kinda messy when you have more added in...

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Just catching up on this thread. Great ideas folks!

Aramintai - I think you were kind of arguing against it, but that mock-up of Hiver's idea (http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=34882&Number=494624#Post494624) looks great to me. And I personally like the option to have the generic skill category icons (for "Warrior," "Fire Magic," etc.) in the hotbar, just as you have them pictured - that's exactly what I was originally imagining in the OP list. (Of course, this would be in addition to, not instead of, the existing option to place specific individual skills/items in the hotbar.) But again, if all this is too much at this late stage in development, at least making skills in the main skill menu usable during combat and the hotbar switching icons bigger would be an improvement.

Minchi1983 - your "bestiary" journal listing idea is something I'd suggested during the alpha, but now I'm thinking that - at least judging from the battles in Cyseal, and the fact that enemies never respawn - each individual enemy (e.g. a "Level 3 Exploskeleton") may only ever be encountered in the game once or twice, which may limit the usefulness of recording each enemy's stats in the bestiary for future reference. That said, it would still be a cool historical record. I also really like the idea of a talent that would allow the player to identify enemy stats. And the "book" (instead of the current "scroll") UI idea for the journal has my vote.

Hiver - I totally agree on the annoyance of the cooldown delay for skills outside battle; been thinking that myself for a while.

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I would go with the book journal too, if it isnt too much of a trouble.
The current one is alright, i guess. But a book would be much nicer.


- And its not just cooldowns but the fact that you cannot quickly select another character.


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Divine Divinity also used the "can't see the enemy's level without points into Know Creature" thing, including the journal stats. It's not an inherently terrible idea, but I'm not a fan of it, because for characters without the right points, it merely adds some guesswork and uncertainty.

If you fight something and lose, was it because your strategy was poor, or because you were severely outclassed?

You can see enemies before you engage them, and being able to see the enemy's level gives you a rough approximation of how tough they are. It lets you make an intelligent strategic decision on whether to engage them or not. In my opinion, replacing an informed decision with guesswork isn't the best idea.

Perhaps tie that to difficulty level or something?

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It needs to be depend on the Perception.

The same way damage is tied to Strenght or Dexterity. Or Magic to Intelligence.
It isnt guesswork at all. and this would make it feel very natural and sensible. Plus it would add one more smaller nice feature to Perception.

Just letting players see exact enemy levels without any requirement whatsoever is cheap "making it easier" mechanic that results in metagming - "i wont take on those because i see they are this exact level and im this exact level".

If you get whooped in an overwhelming way - you can tell that easily without such spoilers.
You dont need to see enemy levels to know youve been destroyed without a chance to win.
You can tell that directly from being killed really fast and also from the fact that you are not dealing much damage to the enemy at all.

Those two effects are the direct feedback pointers.

Seeing enemy levels is just a small addition to it. Its not that important at all and therefore it could be easily made to depend on one of the main attributes as an additional ease of use feedback mechanic.


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Yeah...It's true, for example Final Fantasy did not have a feature to see the monster lvl and see if you can match it but that system is nicely hidden away and it was revealed the monster stats and lvl through the use of scan magic and all that information was stored away in a bestiary.

If you see the level of the monster it just makes the game even easier to go past the area by just grinding and leveling up your characters. I think without having the monster lvl being shown it just makes the game much more harder and rewarding when you managed to have monster stats filled out used through perception.

I think in Ultima 7 that they don't even show you the lvls of the monsters within the game until you beat it or have some kinda spell or item that shows the monsters stats...

Boy its been a long time since I played it..

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Here are some mock-ups of suggested ways to improve tedious crafting:
-Recipes in the log are filled in not as book entries but as actual combinations from those books. The ones you can craft have crafting button near them. In the ones you can't, red numbers show which ingridients you are lacking and there is no crafting button.
[Linked Image]

-Alternatively, recipies combinations which you can craft are shown in a separate window. Combination result is selectable, crafting is done with the crafting button:
[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Aramintai
Here are some mock-ups of suggested ways to improve tedious crafting:
-Recipes in the log are filled in not as book entries but as actual combinations from those books. The ones you can craft have crafting button near them. In the ones you can't, red numbers show which ingridients you are lacking and there is no crafting button.
[Linked Image]

-Alternatively, recipies combinations which you can craft are shown in a separate window. Combination result is selectable, crafting is done with the crafting button:
[Linked Image]


Oooh Nice...Hey Aramintai can u make a mock-ups of the journal in book forum than in scroll forum to show the developers that it looks better in book forum than the scroll format?

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Originally Posted by Minchi1983

Oooh Nice...Hey Aramintai can u make a mock-ups of the journal in book forum than in scroll forum to show the developers that it looks better in book forum than the scroll format?

Well, I'm not sure it really needs any changes, seems fine as it is. But anyway, here's my version of what can be improved - quest titles are shown to the left, quest entries are shown to the right:
[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Aramintai
Originally Posted by Minchi1983

Oooh Nice...Hey Aramintai can u make a mock-ups of the journal in book forum than in scroll forum to show the developers that it looks better in book forum than the scroll format?

Well, I'm not sure it really needs any changes, seems fine as it is. But anyway, here's my version of what can be improved - quest titles are shown to the left, quest entries are shown to the right:
[Linked Image]


Thanks it looks really good.It looks more organize than the scroll version though.

Hopefully the developers are looking in this topic and noticed how much better than the previous one and the tabs can be sticking out by the edge of the on the right and left so it looks like bookmarks so you can just click on it and the book will turn to that subject and makes it organized though...

Thanks Aramintai...

Last edited by Minchi1983; 12/05/14 12:21 AM.
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Nice looking mockups.

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Would like to see a crafting system like that in the game. It's simple but fun. A separate small window like the one you provided would be great too, Key Binding it to C to bring up the small Crafting window.

Last edited by ZoddGuts; 12/05/14 03:21 AM.
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