Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Jun 2014
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Jun 2014
Gyson, i see youre fairly dedicated to the battle against an increase in run speed. But the bottom line is this, its typically a non issue in most games when and if the speed is simply to slow. Ive never seen anyone in all my years on forums fight tooth and nail over something that doesnt affect any type of serious gameplay at all.

Im just saying, i think youre totally off base here trying to fight for some sort of major cause when really, its not.

I dont think youve played many rpgs if you think that somehow increasing base run speed just a little, will break this game or something. You seem a bit wet behind the ears in the rpg department, if i were to guess.

Nobody needs to give some sort of huge massive scientific reason behind it, its simply the speed needs up from its base setting, done, simple, thats really all there is too it.

You can still have movement skills like bursts of speed, and what not. But the base speed in itself, for such a massive game needs increased a little.


Last edited by Savatage79; 24/06/14 04:34 AM.
Joined: Jun 2014
D
stranger
Offline
stranger
D
Joined: Jun 2014
Gyson,
You are one of very few who really want this to stay slow and tedious to a point that will actually hinder the game.

I have mentioned my points before

If this was an action rpg i would agree with you, but turn based combat is different.

Why should I waste my leveling points on speed just to get to par with the movement speed of other rpg's. Yes that includes all the diablos, baldurs gates e.t.c.

C'mon. Realise that you are getting out voted here...

Joined: Jan 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
Originally Posted by Savatage79
Gyson, i see youre fairly dedicated to the battle against an increase in run speed. But the bottom line is this, its typically a non issue in most games when and if the speed is simply to slow.

Who determines what is too slow? Is it your call? Because the running speed used to be faster and then the developers slowed it down, so apparently they decided it was too fast. Why is that not a case of it being "really all there is to it", like you seem fond of saying in your post?

Originally Posted by Savatage79
Ive never seen anyone in all my years on forums fight tooth and nail over something that doesnt affect any type of serious gameplay at all.

Im just saying, i think youre totally off base here trying to fight for some sort of major cause when really, its not.

I dont think youve played many rpgs if you think that somehow increasing base run speed just a little, will break this game or something. You seem a bit wet behind the ears in the rpg department, if i were to guess.

Characters running around at speeds I consider unrealistic (or at speeds that cause animation or sliding issues) don't do wonders for my immersion, which in turn hurts my enjoyment of the game - a reason that I feel is better than "I'm impatient and demand to go fast". *Especially* in an RPG game - but that's just me and my wet-behind-the-ears opinion.

You can't play the "something that doesn't affect any type of serious gameplay at all" card while sitting here arguing that the speed needs to change.

Originally Posted by Savatage79

Nobody needs to give some sort of huge massive scientific reason behind it, its simply the speed needs up from its base setting, done, simple, thats really all there is too it.

There's that "need" term again, for something you claim "doesn't affect any type of serious gameplay at all". Well, then I suggest not changing the speed from its current setting if it doesn't impact any type of serious gameplay. Simply changing it because the console kids get impatient isn't a good enough reason, in my opinion.

Do I really think you're a "console kid"? No, but you went and assumed I'm "wet behind the ears in the rpg department", so there you go. wink I can make assumptions too.

-----------------

Originally Posted by Diacri
Gyson,
You are one of very few who really want this to stay slow and tedious to a point that will actually hinder the game.
..

C'mon. Realise that you are getting out voted here...

I'd argue that all you have is a vocal minority. People generally don't run to the forum to let the developers know they're absolutely happy with a particular element, mechanic, or feature, but they do come when they have a problem with something. Why are you assuming that every Divinity : OS owner who hasn't spoken about the run speed has the same opinion as you? Silence can just as easily equal contentment.

Originally Posted by Diacri
Why should I waste my leveling points on speed just to get to par with the movement speed of other rpg's. Yes that includes all the diablos, baldurs gates e.t.c.

What you call wasting, I call investing. Why should I "waste" attribute points in Perception and pick talents that allow me to spot hidden objects and traps? Because that's how the game was designed, that's why. You have options available to run faster - so how about using them before trying to change the pace of the game for everyone?

Edit: You can see the old movement speed here, by the way. The comparisons start at timestamp 1:07 - 1:25. It wasn't much faster, but (in my opinion, and apparently the developers since they changed it) it was just enough to make the movement look goofy. The current speed fits the game much better, and obviously it doesn't take much of an increase to change the look and feel of the game.



I have no doubt that, for some of you, even that is too slow. And that's enough to make me concerned and defend the current speed.

Maybe you should focus on requesting a sprint function instead? Then you're adding options instead of changing them.

Joined: Jun 2014
G
stranger
Offline
stranger
G
Joined: Jun 2014
I honestly have no problems with the movement speed; it fits the game.

I *would* like the option to speed through enemy combat turns, as others have mentioned.

Joined: Jan 2014
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Jan 2014
Movement is slower in Divinity than any other online game I'm playing and I like that about the game.

I can see that being forced to move at a slow pace would be irritating to people who are used to running around completing quests as fast as possible to get the next point for another level. So many games can be played that way.

This game will be different. You won't miss out on anything because you ran by too fast.

I like that the rats run faster than my character. That's how it should be. I have to corner them to talk to them.

I don't usually comment on the forums about gameplay features that I feel are appropriate but the developers need to know there are those of us out there that are happy with the movement speed.

Joined: Jun 2014
T
stranger
Offline
stranger
T
Joined: Jun 2014
Just made an account to agree the speed should be increased, wouldn't have bothered but I saw Gyson speaking for the 'silent majority' who want to keep the speed the same (haha).

You want to err on the side of convenience for the player in this sort of situation, which the developers obviously understand since they've placed a fair number of convenient portals around.

Issues with low movement speed are worsened when you have a party you can split up and move around areas, which is going to be happening constantly given the coop nature of this game. It's definitely slow in single player, how do you think players are going to feel when they're trying to catch up with their friends? "Oh man, this is so atmospheric waiting here as my friend slowly trundles up to this npc so I can initiate dialogue and both of us can interact in a conversation, he's half a map away and not sliding at all!" (as if that and other animation timings couldn't be easily tweaked haha) Increasing movement speed doesn't flat-out solve this, but it does provide mitigation.

The trait Gyson mentions is also locked to having scoundrel 2, forcing build choices on players who are sick of slowly making their way to a faraway cat wizard. Despite having no interest in the scoundrel abilities I've considered dropping points into it on a character just for the trait. The movement boost from speed at 12 didn't seem to make much of a difference. The fire haste spell also was not a very good solution, as the absurd casting time and fairly short non-combat duration makes it a questionable gain.

Maybe if the +movement stat on equipment noticeably increased noncombat speed that'd help, but in any case all of these options are creating speed disparities between coop players. Who wants to control the character who hits 10% harder but is 20% slower and constantly lags behind getting to places and picking up loot?

Anyway, I'd say somewhere around 15-20% increase would be reasonable, along with a much smaller clickable area where the player walks instead of running as people have mentioned. An always run would be good, sprinting would be great especially if it had aspects such as making monsters more easily notice you or causing increasing AP exhaustion debuffs if you enter combat immediately from sprint.

Looking at the footage side by side the left looks too fast getting a benny hill effect, the right too slow as if the characters are marching through mud. Somewhere in the middle would most likely be an improvement.

Joined: Jun 2014
D
dot Offline
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
D
Joined: Jun 2014
There are two things to consider:

1.) Is DOS trying to be a true RPG like Neverwinter Nights (using D&D3.0 ruleset)? If so I would suggest, that immersion is more important than being able to run everywhere in a split second. It does take away the main focus from "killing stuff" (aka hack and slash rpgs). But it also requires the devs to have enough interesting stuff happening rather than to have us run back and forth between 2 places in every quest.

2.) Is DOS following the hack and slash path of RPGs, yet wants to be a little bit different than torchlight/diablo? Well, then I guess increase in movement speed would be best, since you want to be in the next fight as fast as possible.


Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Larian Studios
Offline
Larian Studios
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada

Catching up with friends is instant (teleporter pyramids).

There is already a way to boost run speed using CheatEngine, and the editor is about to be released.

Larian has made a couple of small adjustment to walk/run speed, and at this point before release, I doubt it will be changed again.

Joined: Dec 2012
Moderator Emeritus
Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Joined: Dec 2012
An opinion of someone who has been a part of silent majority so far:

I couldn't care less about the running speed - in fact I haven't even noticed that it has been changed during the development process although I have been playing since the very first alpha version. I am always so busy with picking up objects, searching for hidden treasures, managing my inventory, equipping/unequipping weapons, crafting, combining, sneaking, stealing etc. that my whole ingame-forward-movement is rather a stop and go than running... In fact I even prefer to walk rather than run since I always fear to miss something important - and if I really need to go from A to B, then I use either the pyramids or the teleporters.

Joined: Aug 2013
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Originally Posted by Raze
There is already a way to boost run speed using CheatEngine


WTF is CheatEngine?


"I don't make games to make money, I make money to make games". (Swen Vincke)
Joined: Apr 2014
G
stranger
Offline
stranger
G
Joined: Apr 2014
Run speed is fine.

Joined: Jun 2014
S
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
S
Joined: Jun 2014
Originally Posted by Diacri
Fallout, Baldurs gate, Final Fantasy, Neverwinter Nights, even lufia from the snes ALL HAD THE OPTION TO SPEED/SKIP through enemy attack turns. Have you not played these games?


NOT TRUE. BG and NWN were not even turn-based games.

Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Larian Studios
Offline
Larian Studios
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by 4verse
WTF is CheatEngine?

A memory editor. For cheating.

Joined: Jan 2011
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
CheatEngine has a facility that you can basically slow down or speed up an game. It can be used for cheating, but it can also be simply used for game speed if you have issues with a games speed. So it is a cool little pc tool to take matters in your own hand. If the devs add something in great! If not, they you can just take it in your own. I run a 1.75x, feels good for both moving and combat speed. In this case everything is sped up 75%, not just you.

Pretty sure there are some quick Youtube videos to show how it works, basically start game, then start cheatengine, then pick the D:OS process in memory, then click speed hack and set your speed.

Joined: Jan 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
Originally Posted by Theodore

You want to err on the side of convenience for the player in this sort of situation, which the developers obviously understand since they've placed a fair number of convenient portals around.

Issues with low movement speed are worsened when you have a party you can split up and move around areas, which is going to be happening constantly given the coop nature of this game. It's definitely slow in single player, how do you think players are going to feel when they're trying to catch up with their friends? "Oh man, this is so atmospheric waiting here as my friend slowly trundles up to this npc so I can initiate dialogue and both of us can interact in a conversation, he's half a map away and not sliding at all!" (as if that and other animation timings couldn't be easily tweaked haha) Increasing movement speed doesn't flat-out solve this, but it does provide mitigation.

You're given teleportation pyramids extremely early in the game, which allow you to regroup your party instantly. That's why they gave you two of them - one for each player character, with the ability to instantly send items (like the pyramids) to other character's inventories even when you're spread apart.. As far as addressing your above concern, they are far more effective than any minor speed boost will be.

Originally Posted by Theodore
along with a much smaller clickable area where the player walks instead of running as people have mentioned.

The walking radius is already small enough (see the image I provided earlier in this thread). While an "always run" option or toggle is fine for those that want it, making it even more difficult/tricky to walk isn't necessary.

Joined: Jun 2014
member
Offline
member
Joined: Jun 2014
Speed is funny in this game.

On the one hand you've got a character in stupid armor, speed 5, moving at around 0.8 versus the hasted dex scoundrel with the talent rushing at 5.5, or 7 times as fast.

If you want more speed, wear leather armor and wield daggers (daggers can grant you bonus speed just by wielding them).

I find the walking speed is fine, provided you aren't bogged down by armor.

Joined: Jun 2014
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Jun 2014
Gyson all im pointing out is that in all my years of gaming, since the 80s on PC, through the years no matter what RPG whether single player or MMO, ive been there. Ive been at it a long time and no that doesnt make me some authority on the matter, what it does though is make me realize what feels natural in a game and what doesnt.

Ive played a ton of rpgs, a ton....and very rarely do i nitpick small aspects like run speed. Because generally its a well accepted notion by any crowd that the movement needs to scale with the world youre in, i dont know how else to put that.

I dont make it a habit of going into my RPGs finding things to nitpick, infact if you were to go to some of the forums i am fairly known on you would see that im the "guy who loves it all"...and i typically do, im a very open minded gamer who takes games for what they are rather than what i feel they should be.

Very rarely do i speak out about something that seems bothersome to me.

When i say it doesnt affect gameplay, im speaking upon its not the same boat as class buffs/fixes etc...which can drastically alter how games work due to balance.

The very second I logged into this game and moved, i felt a weird cumbersome feeling. It felt very slow, awkward, heavy, it didnt feel right. And so far the handful of people that i know who fired this game up that was the first thing they told me.

Now i get it, everything is subjective. But still when people come out of the wood work and say the exact same thing it has to hold some water.

And what i dont want to see is people turned off from this game that will be an amazing crpg. Because people are finicky about things like that, and this game just has a very very slow...feeling to movement, it simply feels like youre in slow motion. I get it some love it and are fine with it, but it doesnt mean it shouldnt be tweaked a bit.

Having a run skill imho has never been something good in my eyes because that is like a dev team saying "well were purposely going to make you run slow, but if you want to run faster here waste time putting points into a lackluster category".

I much rather speed enhancing gear perhaps, or spells that can be cast to increase run speeds. But the base run speed in itself, should scale and feel proper to the world around. The map is pretty massive, they could up the speed a bit, im not asking for 10x as fast...just a bit. You cant reason with that at all? Like not even an inkling?

Edit: My point im making is that if they increased the speed just a little, is someone going to really get mad and turn the game off and say "well they ruined my fun, im done here" ? Any type of increase in things such as run movement, should be either a happy outcome for many or simple a neutral care. I simply dont see someone getting all bent out of shape because of a slight movement increase, that makes no sense to me.

Last edited by Savatage79; 24/06/14 04:18 PM.
Joined: Jan 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
Originally Posted by Savatage79
Ive played a ton of rpgs, a ton....and very rarely do i nitpick small aspects like run speed. Because generally its a well accepted notion by any crowd that the movement needs to scale with the world youre in, i dont know how else to put that.

..


But the base run speed in itself, should scale and feel proper to the world around. The map is pretty massive, they could up the speed a bit, im not asking for 10x as fast...just a bit. You cant reason with that at all? Like not even an inkling?

Except that the game allows you to teleport between discovered waypoints, and so for all practical purposes the "scale of the world" might as well be the fairly small region between two adjacent waypoint transporters.

Are you really arguing that we need to move faster because the distance between the waypoints is too great? You've been repeatedly implying that we're being forced to run across the length of the entire map when that is clearly not the case. This game already goes out of its way to make travel quick and simple. The amount of area you're forced to travel around in is actually quite small, regardless of the size of the world.

Originally Posted by Savatage79

The very second I logged into this game and moved, i felt a weird cumbersome feeling. It felt very slow, awkward, heavy, it didnt feel right. And so far the handful of people that i know who fired this game up that was the first thing they told me.

Now i get it, everything is subjective. But still when people come out of the wood work and say the exact same thing it has to hold some water.

It is subjective, because the *first* comments my friends and I shared when we first started playing Divinity : OS was how good the pace of movement looked and felt, and that the characters felt like they had real weight rather than floating and sliding all over the place. That's a true story.

As for people "coming out of the woodwork", that is also subjective. Simply put, wanting to move faster is a pretty easy sell. That would be like asking "should we have more waypoints?" or "should we get more points to spend upon leveling up?". Just because a suggestion is popular doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Frankly, I've been in too many games where a few vocal complaints led to changes, changes which then led to even more upset players coming out and asking why the change occurred in the first place. Often these people are caught completely by surprise because they had no idea something was being argued as an issue to begin with.

People don't run to the forum to confirm that they're still enjoying some element of the game. "FYI, devs.. just wanted to drop you a line and let you know I'm still happy with the idle animations. I'll be back in a couple weeks to let you know one way or the other if my opinion on them has changed." - these are not the types of posts you're likely to find on a forum, no matter how many people feel the same way about it. What you are likely to see is complaints, however, which is why you don't just go by the appearance of numbers alone.

A while back walking was removed from Wasteland 2 - and since then it seems not a day goes by where someone isn't posting a complaint about it, to the point now where the developers are finally looking into putting the function back in. Do you think it's reasonable to suggest all those players should have been actively reporting their fondness of walking just to make sure the walking ability remained in the game in the first place?


Originally Posted by Savatage79

And what i dont want to see is people turned off from this game that will be an amazing crpg. Because people are finicky about things like that, and this game just has a very very slow...feeling to movement, it simply feels like youre in slow motion. I get it some love it and are fine with it, but it doesnt mean it shouldnt be tweaked a bit.

...

Edit: My point im making is that if they increased the speed just a little, is someone going to really get mad and turn the game off and say "well they ruined my fun, im done here" ? Any type of increase in things such as run movement, should be either a happy outcome for many or simple a neutral care. I simply dont see someone getting all bent out of shape because of a slight movement increase, that makes no sense to me.

On one hand you're concerned that people will be turned off from the game because the movement speed is (in your opinion) too slow. On the other hand you're scoffing at people who might be turned off from the game because the movement speed is too fast. From your perspective it seems to be a critical concern for players who are in favor of faster movement, but a trivial complaint for people who aren't.

I suppose I see it the other way: for an RPG, immersion is important. For tactical gameplay, zipping around and stumbling into encounters before they're noticed or running over a trap before the character can call the player's attention to it is undesirable. And for a turn-based game, patience is a requirement.

So, yes, I think increasing the speed can be legitimately undesirable. On the other hand, the game provides plenty of waypoints for those that want to get around the world faster, and if impatience with movement really causes them to abandon the game then they probably weren't going to be able to deal very well with all the reading, turn-based combat, rock-paper-scissors mini-games, etc anyway.

In the end we both have a conflicting speed preference, so that's a wash. The only other reason you've been able to offer is that the world is big, but the plentiful waypoints nullify that argument.

Is it ridiculous to leave an otherwise great game because the movement is too fast for your tastes? Sure.. just as it is ridiculous to leave an otherwise great game because the movement is too slow for your tastes. The difference here is that there are actually several legitimate downsides to moving too quickly in a game like Divinity : OS, where as the only downside to moving too slowly is making impatient players unhappy (to the point of leaving) - which we just established is ridiculous as far as reasons go.

Joined: Jun 2014
T
stranger
Offline
stranger
T
Joined: Jun 2014
Well, for my personal experience it ultimately comes down to a slower speed being an obvious form of padding to a game's length. I played a lot of D:OS's beta, with an interest in getting a feel for various item and crafting systems.

A large amount of my playtime was waiting for my characters to reach areas I've already explored to finish quests, get to tools to craft and blacksmith, and to revisit merchants to see what goods they got on level up. Generally I'd look at another monitor / multitask during this time, as no new gameplay or content occurs during it. D:OS is obviously going to be long and content-rich, and I've really enjoyed the content I've seen. I just have little desire to plod about retreading my steps slowly and it's one of my few complaints about the game.

As far as immersion goes, is there some deep lore behind the available portals and why people are perfectly fine living next to them? Or the pyramids doing what they do? They feel like handewavey conveniences included for the player's benefit, so I don't particularly understand how walking at a normal pace is somehow poisonous to the immersion. Yippee, I can whip out the magical pyramid to port to my friend because walking there is too slow, fantastic!

It looks like things were definitely too fast before, it got overtweaked the other direction, and you're really overselling the 'problems' of a small increase. Calling people disliking the out of combat movement speed impatient and saying upsetting them is the only issue with keeping it the same is childish.

Maybe make Speed's bonus to out of combat movement more noticeable? Have +movement equipment noticeably affect out of combat movement? Let the duration of haste spells be longer out of combat? Have a trait that isn't tied to an arbitrary skill increase movement? Lots of solutions if you don't feel like a flat increase is warranted that people who like a slower pace can avoid or take once they get tired of walking through the same area repeatedly.

Anyway I disagree that the walk clickable area is at a good size, but really a run toggle solves that so the area is meaningless. I'd rather the game always assume I want to reach an area where I click as quickly as possible, unless I specify that I want to be walking. The arbitrary area of clicking creating a change of movement behavior is the issue here, when it should be at the player's discretion.

Joined: Jun 2014
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Jun 2014
Originally Posted by Theodore
Well, for my personal experience it ultimately comes down to a slower speed being an obvious form of padding to a game's length. I played a lot of D:OS's beta, with an interest in getting a feel for various item and crafting systems.

A large amount of my playtime was waiting for my characters to reach areas I've already explored to finish quests, get to tools to craft and blacksmith, and to revisit merchants to see what goods they got on level up. Generally I'd look at another monitor / multitask during this time, as no new gameplay or content occurs during it. D:OS is obviously going to be long and content-rich, and I've really enjoyed the content I've seen. I just have little desire to plod about retreading my steps slowly and it's one of my few complaints about the game.

As far as immersion goes, is there some deep lore behind the available portals and why people are perfectly fine living next to them? Or the pyramids doing what they do? They feel like handewavey conveniences included for the player's benefit, so I don't particularly understand how walking at a normal pace is somehow poisonous to the immersion. Yippee, I can whip out the magical pyramid to port to my friend because walking there is too slow, fantastic!

It looks like things were definitely too fast before, it got overtweaked the other direction, and you're really overselling the 'problems' of a small increase. Calling people disliking the out of combat movement speed impatient and saying upsetting them is the only issue with keeping it the same is childish.

Maybe make Speed's bonus to out of combat movement more noticeable? Have +movement equipment noticeably affect out of combat movement? Let the duration of haste spells be longer out of combat? Have a trait that isn't tied to an arbitrary skill increase movement? Lots of solutions if you don't feel like a flat increase is warranted that people who like a slower pace can avoid or take once they get tired of walking through the same area repeatedly.

Anyway I disagree that the walk clickable area is at a good size, but really a run toggle solves that so the area is meaningless. I'd rather the game always assume I want to reach an area where I click as quickly as possible, unless I specify that I want to be walking. The arbitrary area of clicking creating a change of movement behavior is the issue here, when it should be at the player's discretion.


Great post, glad to see someone else understand the situation.

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5