Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Can we eventually get a list of late features?

question to those of you complaining about those missing companions and AIs: did you plan to play D:OS only b/c of companions and AIs in the first place?
i always thought games were meant to be played b/c of the main story around the protagonists. additional content is welcome but, well ... only additional, isn't it? it does add to the immersion, of course. but not to play the game altogether only b/c there are only 2 out of 4 companions and 2 AIs is like saying "i don't want to see the star trek movies b/c lt. uhura (or even some background artist) does not get as much attention as mr. spock and kirk and has less lines of text to say".

Is this essentially an "I don't care, so why should you" post?


Anyway, since you asked: No, I was not planning to play D:OS "only" because of companions and AI's. But I do prefer to play games single-player instead of multiplayer.

Part of the vision for D:OS was to recreate the tabletop feeling where all party members have an opinion and a say in decisions. It was announced pretty early on in the Kickstarter campaign that the single-player mode would have AI personalities which would have their own opinions and disagree or agree with your decisions.

I was very interested in that option because it sounded like a lot of fun and it was something never seen before. Over time, as I played the alpha and beta over and over again "debating" with myself over and over and over again, I got tired of debating with myself, and the AI personalities option went up my priority list, until it became something I decided I needed to have in the game before I would consider it complete.


Personal Opinion Incoming: I disagree with the notion that we have 2 AI in the game. It is not "2 AI", I personally consider there to be ZERO personalities in on launch - I don't count either of the options as a personality. One is an artificial coin flip, and the other agrees with everything you say. Those do not really interest me, because neither has even the sense of feeling like a real person with real opinions. I know there is the option to make both decisions myself, but that also does not interest me - I got plenty of that replaying the alpha and beta and got tired of it.


Yes, if Larian had never mentioned AI personalities existing, and if the second character was just a puppet who followed you while you made all the decisions unopposed, I probably wouldn't have noticed the cut at all.


I'm less concerned about the Companions being missing (and there being only four total), but still I played the beta so much that those companions are rather familiar (even though I didn't ask them about their backstory), and so of course, they will be less interesting than something different.

I agree with Pokey above, there are no AI personalities atm.

Having said that, playing with my GF has the same effect as a random AI!

Also, isn't computer AI for the second main character part of the main story line, since it's the main character's personality?

Finally, I don't want to watch Star Trek movies I consider bad, so I don't... I have watched Voyage Home many times more than Undisocvered plot... I mean country.

I really just want an ETA on the AI personalities and the companions.

I don't care about another "unofficial" delay. I can wait but I want to know how long I have to wait and whether it makes sense for someone like me (with my preferences and tastes) to actually start a new campaign next week or not.

And I agree with Stabbey that AI personalities and companions are a big issue for the "SP roleplaying faction" among us. Party interaction and fleshed out characters are one of the core features and "magic" of a party RPG. It's one of the features that made BG2 so awesome tbh. Of course the game is still great fun without but it's not how it could or should be. Adding 100 less important features doesn't substitute cutting/delaying an important feature (at least not for me). A longer but less fun game doesn't substitute a shorter but more fun experience. Of course that depends on your personal assessment what you think is an important feature in a game like that.

There ya go, they should just remain Random to "Chaotic Evil!".

lol

Wow, what happened to this thread?

To quote the OP (emphasis mine):


This is a perfectly reasonable request and moreover, helpful, regardless of how important a particular feature might be to an individual. People are also perfectly entitled to express some disappointment, though I would hope they can keep things in perspective. Apparently not on Steam so much?

I thought people ITT were generally very reasonably discussing the situation and asking for some clarification and an ETA on planned work, so as to plan their own time if wanting to avoid forum spoilers and managing their future playtime.

Thank you for the response Swen

*

It is quite right to emphasise the scope and quality of D:OS to put things in perspective. A game is not merely a feature list but something far greater than a sum of its parts. There is a profound gestalt to a cRPG like this, a grand artwork in my opinion and the soul of Original Sin is very strong even without AI personalities or additional companions.

I'm sure Swen also understands why companions may be a significant part of forming that gestalt in a cRPG for some, and why AI personalities may be so highly anticipated in the dialogue system too.

From a backer's perspective we don't know the difficulties they encountered when implementing these things and the process of development remains largely shrouded in mystery, no matter how insightful we might imagine our armchair development analysis to be.

From my perspective, I was always willing to wait as long as it took. Larian have obviously determined what they consider the optimal release date for them (considering budgeting, contracts, sales climate, team fatigue, time required for additional work etc etc etc) and I don't mind at all. Mostly because I do not know of another RPG game company that I trust or admire more. Original Sin looks to be an astounding achievement, and while a full assessment of its merits will resolve in the fullness of time, I can honestly say I have never been more excited about a game's release or enjoyed following its development so much.

This has been something very special to feel a part of and I treasure it.

In perspective, the 'missing' AI personalities and remaining companions are not a big deal at all because they ARE coming. Yet it is perfectly reasonable for people to ask for an ETA.

*

Swen, thank you again from the bottom of my heart.

Regarding an ETA, you could just say, 'We can't give you even a rough guestimate because we simply need a break before re-assessing everything" and I'm sure most people would understand. Or at least they should.

I can wait as long as need be and I trust you can see why I might want to do so.

So, alongside NPC schedules, Henchman Became Companions stretch goal is going to miss the release date, except the latter seems to be late rather than ditched? I guess I'd pass on the release date. I may have gotten a long fuse but, from my own experience with capable developers such as CDPR and some crowd-funding projects, most of them was able to deliver if we give enough time to them. Since this project seems to be on the right direction, I don't mind the extra delay. If the game is "completed," Larian may like to release a Director Cut version, which is hopefully given free for any existing players.

I'm with Stabbey and LordCrash. A real ETA on AI personalities would be ideal. Some of you are willing to consider this a complete game without them but I will have to hold back and wait until the personalities are patched in. I don't have the luck of being able to consistently play with someone else, (And even if I did I'd end up playing a lot while they were offline and they'd end up lost in the sauce) and I bought this game under the impression I would be playing the role of one character, not two. Especially if I have to decide whether or not something is worth making the two characters argue over it.

I'm extremely tempted to play the moment the game downloads on steam but I know that if I do I will be disappointed, so I may as well wait...

Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if people mod in some AI personalities and even companions within the first couple of days if possible. And even if its not possible easily with the editor, people always find ways. :P

While I also was looking forward to the AI preferences since my co-op partner has some life issues to deal with for a while. I can wait or restart a game later on if I want when they finish the other content.

I can understand if they just felt they couldn't delay any longer or run into some issues. At least they have said it will come still.

Still looking forward to this game more then any game in a long time. <3 Larian.

What's the point of ETA if it is not going to be kept? And if it is not kept, there are always some people who accuse the devs lied to them. They could give you a very rough schedule, which, however, can still be broken. At least, that's what I learned from following some game developing companies for these years. I even have never taken the day & night stretch goal seriously since it seems to end up with plenty of works, which could extend to various layers. As for the companion stretch goal, I imagine it would be basically adding extra content but the AI thingy can make it more complicated. So, I'd wait for it with a caution.

Well, for most people there's only so much free gaming time available. For those that like turn-based RPGs, Wasteland 2 is coming out in two months, Blackguards 2 is in development, not to mention D:OS mods.. so I suspect everyone would prefer playing the main D:OS campaign sooner rather than later.

If the personalities and companions are showing up in a week or two, waiting isn't a big deal. But if we're talking about months of delay, then maybe delaying your playthrough of D:OS isn't the best idea (especially if you're interested in other games that are around the corner). You can even save the AI personalities and extra companions for a different playthrough experience your second time around (if you can honestly see yourself playing through D:OS twice).

I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. As far as I know these are the available traits:

Pragmatic vs Romantic
Altruistic vs Egotistical
Independent vs Obedient
Righteous vs Renegade
Bold vs Timid
Compassionate vs Heartless
Forgiving vs Vindictive
Spiritual vs Materialistic

An AI personality is probably going to be made up of a single assigned traits from each of the above eight rows, which in turn will determine how your AI-controlled person responds during conversations.

If you really want to start playing on the 30th, you can just as easily pick the traits you best feel will make up your preferred personality for your partner rather than waiting for a developer to do it. And then you simply choose the appropriate responses for them during conversations rather than the AI doing it.

I know that despite the end result being the same, it won't feel (as when the AI does it), and it requires you to remain honest to your trait assignments. But for those who want the occasional conflict between their main characters and are desperate to start playing immediately, it's worth considering.

Or, just wait for the update to arrive. But the wait might be a while, and consider the possibility that there may be other things down the line you're going to want to play.


A safer way to give an ETA is to make it clear that a feature has no chance of appearing before a general date. As in "No additional companions for at least two months". Even that vague answer can help people make informed decisions.

Yeah, now, while I don't know how Larian is doing it, with the opposing traits, it seems to me that one way they're building those personalities could indeed be by selecting which trait (A vs B) they prefer for all of the traits.

It's possibly slightly more complicated, as there could be a third option: "Prefers A", "Prefers B", or "no preference" for cases in which the personality has no strong opinion one way or another. Those cases would be resolved via internal coin flip.

BUT, if it were REALLY so simple as this, then Larian shouldn't have had much trouble making them, which suggests that something more complicated is happening behind the scenes.


Conservative:
Pragmatic vs Romantic
Altruistic vs Egotistical
Independent vs Obedient
Righteous vs Renegade
Bold vs Timid
Compassionate vs Heartless
Forgiving vs Vindictive
Spiritual vs Materialistic


Liberal:
Pragmatic vs Romantic
Altruistic vs Egotistical
Independent vs Obedient
Righteous vs Renegade
Bold vs Timid
Compassionate vs Heartless
Forgiving vs Vindictive
Spiritual vs Materialistic



Greedy:
Pragmatic vs Romantic
Altruistic vs Egotistical
Independent vs Obedient
Righteous vs Renegade
Bold vs Timid
Compassionate vs Heartless
Forgiving vs Vindictive
Spiritual vs Materialistic


Generous:
Pragmatic vs Romantic
Altruistic vs Egotistical
Independent vs Obedient
Righteous vs Renegade
Bold vs Timid
Compassionate vs Heartless
Forgiving vs Vindictive
Spiritual vs Materialistic


Leader:
Pragmatic vs Romantic
Altruistic vs Egotistical
Independent vs Obedient
Righteous vs Renegade
Bold vs Timid
Compassionate vs Heartless
Forgiving vs Vindictive
Spiritual vs Materialistic

LOL Stabby, I just happened to catch this one:

You have Conservative Spiritual and Liberal Materialistic. Not in my parts...

Another thing to consider is how personalities interact with affection & affinity. It would make sense that a personality type would (as Stabbey noted) care about a particular topic more than another, or may have no strong opinion on a particular matter. So rather than attributing a set relationship modifier (eg +/- 1) for each agreement/disagreement merely according to opposing traits, they may want to give personalities more depth by weighting individual dialogue conflicts (eg a particular conflict gives +/- 3 to a conservative personality and a +/- 1 to a generous character).

This would obviously be more time consuming and would require some balancing, not to mention potentially making it more complicated to code, or so my limited understanding perceives it. I don't really have any idea about how or if this would even complicate relationship and plot flags. This is just speculation about another possibility.

I read about half of this thread and it made me SO HAPPY that I ignored most news and potential features after initially looking into the game, buying the game and then playing the game (lightly). Its beginning to sound like Arsenal FC fans every year around March when they have their annual collapse.

Most of the complaining here is just mild feedback. Most of us are grateful as hell that Larian is releasing a quality CRPG with extensive co-op.... AND THE TOOLKIT!!!! My slight griping earlier is nothing compared to the sheer enthusiasm I have for this game. I took time off from work to play it! I've never done that for a game before.

I've already helped sold this game on to other people. One person bought it partially on my recommendation during the steam sale, another bought it entirely after I introduced them to it and showed them a twitter stream. Another is waiting on the Linux release, and yet another I convinced showing them via twitter is waiting to scrape up the money. And that's not counting all the people I've recommended to on reddit.

The good of this game is far and above this slightly disappointing news. And most people seem to agree. The reviews on steam are extremely positive and most of the negative reviews are honestly either ridiculous, or people that just don't like turn-based combat.

I have been waiting for a good CRPG--one that included the toolkit, too--since NWN2. (Dragon Age was too steamlined and watered-down). When I was told about this game I almost crapped myself and since that point in time I've become an eager fanatic. I have to say, THANK YOU, the entire team, for making this game, and with passion and love for the genre. And another big THANK YOU for releasing the toolkit as well!

You cannot be serious. Conservative as heartless and vindictive? Liberal as altruistic, forgiving and compassionate? You're hanging around the wrong people, pal. That's all I have to say. Overall, I'd say all of your "examples" are carp (and yes, I misspelled that intentionally).

Maybe personalities are delayed because Larian is still arguing about which traits belong to which personality...




Seriously though, I wouldn't take such things too seriously. Any way you do it is just a ludicrous game of pick your stereotype. It will be interesting to see what personalities they actually come up with though. Perhaps conservative and liberal aren't the best options as these are pretty political and divisive terms. Attributing contrary binary character traits along those lines is just bound to ring false to people, as everyone will have their own positive outloook on their own ideology.

It would be the optimal version if we could choose the AI in the character creation screen on our own. On top of skills, traits and appearance we would also give our 2nd character a "character" based on the preferences/character traits we choose for him/her to follow in dialogues.

I hope for "random AI, some predefinied AI sets and "custom AI", set by the players themselves.

Wouldn't it be nice if your companion could develop a life of their own; a spirit that you only get to know as you play; one that built upon the experiences gained during play ? A true companion with a will of their own. Anyways I already expressed my opionion earlier. I'm just trying to decide if it is unreasonable. I think Larian/Swen view had always been focused on a co-op experience and that is fine and dandy 'cept I rather play single player. It does beg the question if the majority ofplayers will play co-op or single player (which is relevant as to priorities).