Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Monetization of mods and new games

I am currently watching the stream about the editor, and I have a question about what modders will be allowed to do to support their modding.

Some background: I primarily come from a Skyrim modding background. For Skyrim, monetization of mods was not allowed. Modders could provide a donation link if they wished, but they could not charge for their mods or require a donation in exchange for modding work. They were also not allowed to request donations in any way, even if they did not require payment for the user to get their mod.

So, regarding D:OS and Larian Studios:

1) This editor looks powerful enough to make a new game. If, then, a company DID use your engine to make a new game with 40-50 hours of content, would they then be allowed to sell their work?

2) If so, then would individual modders also be allowed to charge for their mods? Would there have to be an approval process before they are allowed to do so?

3) Honestly, I personally have no interesting in charging for mods. But, I would like to be able to accept donations for my mods. If we don't want to charge for access to mods, will we be allowed to accept donations? Larian can take a cut of the donations, but allowing players to donate to their favorite modders would highly encourage those modders to continue making mods.

I realize that this is a kind of sensitive issue. I ask this question anyway because I love Larian and this game, and want to see the modding scene flourish. And, really, I will mod this game even if I get no money from it. The question has to be brought up at some point. I think it's good for the modding community and Larian to come up with some sort of agreement on the subject. Both the modders and Larian developers can be encouraged in their work if this policy is understood clearly and early.

EDIT: Free for non-commercial use. Larian will decide policy for modders and developers charging for their work at a later time. (See Lar_q response below)

Yes (EDIT: to be determined). (I thought) Larian said previously people can monetize their mods, and they don't have any plans to take a cut of proceeds (but apparently that has not been decided; see Lar's reply).

Wow. I would hope that the mods remain free as in Skyrim (which I also play). But to allow someone to just make a whole game and sell it using their editor, that's unprecedented.

EDIT: Info in next post corrects this.

That's not 100% right. It's currently free for non-commercial purposes (and will remain so), but we still have to develop our strategy for people who want to sell mods or even full games. We didn't look at it yet because it hasn't become a thing yet, but we'll come up with something that's fair for us and those who want to commercialise.

Sorry, I must have been thinking of a comment about that...

We will all get rich! YEAH!

Thank you for the response.

I understand that this is a complicated issue, and that there hasn't really been a reason to delve into it yet. I just wanted to bring it up now, because I know from experience that at some point a modder is going to want to charge for their work, or at least ask for donation. When it does become an issue, though, I trust that you guys will certainly come up with a fair policy.

I think some of the modders for Skyrim have made some nice money just on donations alone, and I'm glad they do as I am sure a lot of personal time is spent on some of those larger mods.

One issue modders have to watch out for though is the use of other modders resources or other 'non-commerial-free' resources when making their mods. Just because you find a great looking texture on the internet doesn't give you the free right to use it any way you want. One of the many issues you have when the modding starts to become popular and monetary.

I quite agree. Back when I was modding Skyrim, I had a "Donate" button available on my mod pages. Considering the amount of time that I spent working on the mods, I didn't make as much money as I would have with a real job. However, I made a decent amount, and the donations were very encouraging to my work.

Aye, that is certainly an issue. Mostly it is solved by simple etiquette, and website admins that will ban for uploading mods with stolen content. I hosted most of my mods on Nexus Mods, and I never had a problem with anyone stealing my content or getting approval from another modder to use their work with attribution.

I think "Donate" button is not really commercialization and should always be allowed. Because it's not mandatory payment, just a way to say "thanks" to modder.

Follow the D&D 3.5 model and let everyone do everything for free. It made those guys a fortune and it's why people are still obsessed with D&D 3.5. It will make you guys the industry standard for this particular niche of gaming because every product everyone else makes will be an advertisement for *you*.

It sounds crazy but with the internet? It works.

It would be awesome if they did have a tool-set that allowed commercial quality mods and that they allowed devs to make and sell them. Obviously they would have to be worth it to ask for $$$. I'm actually starting to eyeball a possible small project as my son is readying for college and I have a nephew that is starting college, both would love to do something in the gaming realm and I'm a real old school game programmer myself (think 80's). Point being, I've been thinking of doing up a project that I feel we could handle (still a hell of a lot of work), been looking at a small unity or rpgmaker type project. Perhaps a D:OS mod? That could work, so if we did a full blown project and if we could get something live a fiver if it were quality... that would really make me consider this route vs something else.

To be honest, it would be pretty cool to license the engine from you guys.

I agree that a "donate" button should always be allowed.

However, I think being allowed (both through media like the Steam Workshop and renowned sites like Nexus) to actually charge for mods will quickly encourage a very unhealthy and ultimately deserted mod community.

Maybe this might work for some types of games, but having been pretty involved in the Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls modding community since Morrowind, I can't imagine this having a positive impact - especially considering the similarities I've seen between Bethesda's and Larian's editors.

Then again, I of course can't exactly predict how Original Sin's mod community will turn out.
Still, I might donate (and have in the past), but I certainly won't pay for something I believe should be an unofficial passion product; maybe for a small handful of modders the huge expenses of their work might warrant a price tag, but then we're talking about a completely different bag of beans.

No, I'm thinking about the tons of mods I've tried in certain other games, that promised all kinds of stuff but... well, let's just say my standard and theirs weren't exactly compatible. This includes enough information about the mods beforehand for me to enthusiastically give it a go. Of course I did appreciate all the work they put into it, but if I had actually payed for it I guess I would've felt kinda silly.
After a few times more of likewise experiences, I wouldn't have tried as much anymore, and eventually might have lost interest in the community altogether.

I realize that's just me, but I reckon there's a reason most mod communities of most such games either do not allow charging, or it simply doesn't happen because it's considered bad form.

I wouldn't look at it that way. First the basic mods one gets, stats, items, gfx, people simply wouldn't buy them, the market would handle that, precedent has been set.

However if we want real quality full campaigns, imo it would encourage quality devs to invest the time. Every purchase I make is always measured, if it is an outstanding mod or a standalone, if the $/quality ration is there, mod or not to me no matter.

As for what happened in the past... there used to be a very small indy scene, no kickstarter, no greenlight, no early access. The canvas has changed, perhaps a few dollars to real quality efforts is the next area to explore.

By the way do we have a option for Securing our Mod with a password?
So not everyone can open the file and fool around with ur hard work and then puplish as their own

... and so it begins ...

Sweet mother of god...

modding trailer

If individuals are going to produce full campaigns with 20+ hours of play using D:OS assets, I don't believe monetisation should be allowed other than donations. However if some are willing to produce their own assets (models, textures, what have you) in order to create new campaigns or areas, then I think that much more effort and planning would be put in, and would deserve (not mandatory) payment.

Given the choice, PC gamers and mod users largely do develop an etiquette within their communities and I reckon the standard of donating to more professional mod authors would arise here also. At the end of the day, mods = choice, take away our choice to experience mods freely and plenty of people will just end up forking out for potentially sub-standard 'add-ons'.

Well, taking the NWN modding community - which is huge and persistent - as a possible model, that sort of thing has only happened a couple of times in 12 years.

Generally it's been stepped on hard by community feedback and site administrators, and has neither become a trend or a recurring problem. Known offenders get short shrift from everyone else. Other modders have taken their ball and gone home, and the decision to withdraw their work from circulation has generally been respected by the community.

Admittedly, that is non-monetized mods, and was in the Days Before Kickstarter In a Smaller Internet, so things may be different - especially if mods are a source of income.

Should it happen, your released work and the release dates will still be readily available, so it should be trivial to prove. Depending on the distribution model(s) that evolve(s) and the money involved in a given case, I would expect most site owners would be disinclined to participate in someone else's theft.

Which said, you're already working with someone else's freeware. Charging for it seems to me like it should be something case by case that you specifically arrange with Larian before it happens. But I'm neither a lawyer or an entrepreneur, so what do I know?