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Hi everyone, I'm new here and pretty stoked about Original Sin. Everything looks great, but I'm kind of bothered by the lack of a day and night cycle. (A pet peeve of mine is when a zone is stuck at a certain time of day)

So, even if it has no effect on gameplay (it just changes lights and some sound effects), is it possible that we'll see a day/night cycle added at some point.

I guess while I'm asking about updates, how much post launch support will this game get? Do we know?

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Larian had already begun work on the day/night cycle before deciding to drop it, so the code for a cosmetic nighttime is already in the game and should be easy to activate by mods.

They stated that they hope to support the game after release with more content and bug fixing patches, but the extent of the support will depend on the sales. There probably won't be much support in the first week or two after launch, however, since much of Larian will be going on vacation.

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Yepp, they also showed on Twitch.tv that there is a feature where you can change the weather or/and the lights with a trigger placed in certain places. As much as I remember they use it by the lighthouse... This light-change is only cosmetic, but modder can work fine with it and add extra things to it. grin


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I'd like to support the night-day cycle idea as well, by allowing also control (areas with fixed time). the idea of bonuses depending on time was great. shadowed areas recognition would be awesome, for those pesky monsters hurt by light laugh

Wasn't the day-time kickstarter goal achieved, btw? why was it dropped?

Last edited by Dark_Ansem; 29/06/14 08:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
why was it dropped?

See the blog post Here we go! (essentially, it was too complex to do properly with the given resources, without making significant cuts elsewhere).

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I'd say it might be possible in a future expansion if we're lucky (if sales justify it and it is practical to implement). Personally, I am not getting my hopes up though as I suspect Larian discovered that a highly reactive day-night cycle really needs to be designed into a cRPG from the ground up (taking into account housing for npcs, quest design, NPC scripting, etc), rather than added at a point years into development. It's probably possible to vastly alter the game to force it in there, but it obviously proved impractical for Larian to do so. I have greater hopes that their next game will include it, and be even bigger and better than D:OS.

However, from that Twitch stream introducing the editor we learnt that it is easy for modders to add some cosmetic day/night/atmospheric changes and effects based on trigger points. So I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising modder(s) came up with some innovative cosmetic day/night effects mod(s) for D:OS, even if it won't have the extensive reactivity that would require a large team to create.


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I have to wonder, what is the sale level considered good?

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We have no way of knowing. Larian won't either until much further down the track once the initial release period is passed and sales are trending with sufficient predictability. They will have to weigh up a lot of things; such as how much to invest in their next games(s) and what those will be, how they would like to enhance Original Sin and what fans would most like (in terms of possible expansion content), whether additional content would be compatible with (allow concurrent development) with day/night cycles. Or they may simply investigate the possibility further and find it too prohibitively impractical to implement. I wonder too.



Edit reason: grammar

Last edited by Robcat; 29/06/14 10:12 AM.

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patience, then, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
patience, then, I suppose.

I never invested many points into patience. I sometimes wonder if I should've done...


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@Dark_Ansem

Yep. I reckon if it is at all reasonable to do it Larian will, I'd imagine as part of an expansion pack that backers would (have to) get free but would be purchasable for everyone else. But again, I doubt it will be feasible. The best we can hope for is Original Sin to be a smashing success, because the more it sells, the greater the chance we have of eventually getting the cycles, in all their planned reactive glory.




Edit reason: To clarify who I was replying to.

Last edited by Robcat; 29/06/14 11:25 AM.

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Well, I can only hope the game sells well enough. I already got a copy for a friend and I.

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I think Swen *really* wants to implement something like that, due to his love of Ultima VII. I have high hopes, even if it is down the road.

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They said they would do this. Come on Larian, I love you guys but this was one of the KS goals and you've bailed on it. Not cool...

Day/Night adds a new dimension to the game.

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I mean, they had a good reason to do exclude it, but I'm still really hoping for it. I feel as if it's one of the only blemishes on this game.

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Dan Vavra from Warhorse studios wrote some interesting comments about the nature of development and how it conflicts with kickstarter pitches.

Source: Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Blog
...The problem with Kickstarter projects is that you are promising something that's not ready yet and you are making that promise at a time when even with the best planning in the world you can never be quite sure that everything you're planning and everything you would like to have in the game will succeed in happening. When you're planning a game of such massive dimensions, even with a crystal ball you can't have 100% certainty.

A game on the scale of Deliverance has thousands of graphic assets and animations, hundreds of features that have to be programmed and thousands of lines of script, and all these incomplete things influence each other. To assess at the beginning of development how long some asset will take to program and how easy it will be to program some feature is simply impossible and so there's no choice but to estimate, refine the estimates during the course of development and if they don't add up, then make cuts or extend the development and make it more costly. Obviously, from previous experience your estimation gets more precise, but it's still an estimate and usually at a time when the person who's going to do the job in question isn't even working in the firm yet and the technology you want to use for it has yet to be programmed.

While in the case of a commonplace game you go and peddle your wares a few months before publication, when all the chaos is pretty much behind you and it's clear to you what you will succeed in implementing and what you can still get done in the six months left to publication, in the case of Kickstarter the most you can do is show a prototype and your plans. Of course it's not written anywhere those plans will succeed and experience tells you that all too often they don't succeed. Just look at stuff like Broken Age, Wasteland, Divinity and Star Citizen and their original estimated schedules.

...

So keep your fingers crossed for us and I sincerely hope that the list of things we planned that will not end up in the game will be as short as possible

Basically, we all know that Kickstarter is risky, yet Dan tries to elaborate on the development process to share some perspective.

However, developers can talk all they like about how uncertain game development is, and while there is certainly a need to better educate the public (and backers) about the complex nature of game development, this doesn't negate the need to hold developers accountable. They can't just promise what they like and then say sorry, shit happens in development. To confound matters, we backers/consumers outside of the inner workings of development have a very limited understanding of the context behind a given issue such as a cut feature (eg the technical hurdles they faced, budget management concerns, work prioritisation etc). How are we to hold a developer accountable if we are not in a position to fully judge their competence regarding a matter?

The best we can do is assess each developer and situation on its merits, according to how honest and transparent they have been, the little information we do have, and the overall progress and quality of their game.

Personally, I accept Larian's explanation for the day/night cycles decision and believe they made a difficult but correct call for the best interests of the game. Also, considering the vast improvement demonstrated in Early Access, the wealth of features added beyond what was promised in the Kickstarter and Larian's track record of treating its fans fairly and generously, I am inclined to place greater trust in Larian's decision. I do hope they will be more circumspect in the future if they decide to do another kickstarter, as it seems clear they bit off more than they could chew, to our disappointment.

Yet I am left with this question also: Would Original Sin be as rich as the game it is today, if Larian had been less ambitious?


"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig
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well, their kickstarer was a success smile

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It also seems to be doing good on the last day of the Steam Sale. Hopefully they get a big old, front page banner tomorrow.

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the more money they make the better for us and the game grin



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Hence the vested interest and danger of bias amongst fans.


"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig
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