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#503612 30/06/14 07:45 PM
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Hi, I'm loving the game so far, except for a detail that seems to be a bit of a balance issue.

It appears that whenever you want to steal something without consequences, all you have to do is have one character talk to the NPC in the room, to make the NPC face away from the goods you want to steal. Then, while your first character is still in dialogue, you send your other character to steal the stuff, and the NPC will never notice. I don't have a rogue or any sort of sneaky character, and this still works.

This seems a bit too easy, specially given how valuable some of the stuff (specially paintings) is.

I am playing on normal, maybe playing on hard changes this?

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Given that in most games you loot everything under the Sun and then some without any repercussions, I don't think this is an issue.


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hey, thanks for the tip XD

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I have done that in the Beta. Stealing has a weight limit so regardless, you can only steal so much. Also, having one character talk to someone and the other pickpocket IS cool. It;s like what people do in real life.

I don't think you want it to be like in Skyrim where all you have to do is put a bucket on someones head for them to not see you steal, lolz.

Last edited by VienxInq; 30/06/14 08:11 PM.
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I think you have to give your character some kind of moral compass to make it realistic. Honestly, even given the opportunity I'm not going to steal something. No need for my character to do it either.

I just don't want there to be some item that you NEED to steal when I'm trying to play a decent good aligned character.

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Originally Posted by nstgc
Given that in most games you loot everything under the Sun and then some without any repercussions, I don't think this is an issue.


I would agree, if it wasn't for how valuable some of the stuff is, relative to the risk. I can steal a few paintings from a simple house and exchange for a magical sword that is a massive upgrade to me. In "most games", if you want to get such a big upgrade, it's at usually the end of dungeon, after killing a boss, after finishing a big quest, or as a reward to something of similar difficulty.

I find this to be clever system (using one character as a distraction), but I don't think it should work 100% of the time.

I think it should do something like check how good your distraction is (how much your character holds the NPC attention), and how good your sneak is.

If your "sneak roll" is lower than your "distraction roll", the NPC should interrupt dialogue and turn around, discovering your theft attempt.

Last edited by Blackhaven; 30/06/14 08:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blackhaven
Hi, I'm loving the game so far, except for a detail that seems to be a bit of a balance issue.

It appears that whenever you want to steal something without consequences, all you have to do is have one character talk to the NPC in the room, to make the NPC face away from the goods you want to steal. Then, while your first character is still in dialogue, you send your other character to steal the stuff, and the NPC will never notice. I don't have a rogue or any sort of sneaky character, and this still works.

This seems a bit too easy, specially given how valuable some of the stuff (specially paintings) is.

I am playing on normal, maybe playing on hard changes this?


Not really, because that is exactly how I do it in real life. Divert with my sexy wife holding a conversation and then stuff my pants with goods. Then just like this game, I can take it to Returns and get store credit without a receipt. TOO EASY!

I kid for myself, but this is very real in retail.

As for the game, yeah I don't think it ever hit a perfect balance.

LeBurns though is right, it then is how you roleplay.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 30/06/14 08:52 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blackhaven
Originally Posted by nstgc
Given that in most games you loot everything under the Sun and then some without any repercussions, I don't think this is an issue.


I would agree, if it wasn't for how valuable some of the stuff is, relative to the risk. I can steal a few paintings from a simple house and exchange for a magical sword that is a massive upgrade to me. In "most games", if you want to get such a big upgrade, it's at usually the end of dungeon, after killing a boss, after finishing a big quest, or as a reward to something of similar difficulty.

I find this to be clever system (using one character as a distraction), but I don't think it should work 100% of the time.

I think it should do something like check how good your distraction is (how much your character holds the NPC attention), and how good your sneak is.

If your "sneak roll" is lower than your "distraction roll", the NPC should interrupt dialogue and turn around, discovering your theft attempt.


True. I found this myself, but since neither of the characters I've been using are the sorts to do that (one's lawful-stupid and the other just wants to get going) I never exploited this. Now that I think of it, you are right. It should only give something like a +X to sneak instead of a automatic thing.


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Originally Posted by nstgc
Given that in most games you loot everything under the Sun and then some without any repercussions, I don't think this is an issue.

way to go excusing flawed game design by comparing it to even more flawed game design...

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Originally Posted by eNTi
Originally Posted by nstgc
Given that in most games you loot everything under the Sun and then some without any repercussions, I don't think this is an issue.

way to go excusing flawed game design by comparing it to even more flawed game design...


Its a standard gameplay element found in almost every RPG I've ever played. If you don't like it go back to playing Call of Duty or whatever the cool kids are playing these days.


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Yes I do think it's a bit too easy to steal. At least the mechanics of stealing could be a bit better. For instance, I shouldn't be able to steal something from an npc's house, then sell their own item directly back to them, then pickpocket the item back while they aren't looking. Yet I've done it on multiple occasions. It's funny yet sad at the same time..

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They just don't expect the heroes from the order of source hunters to steal anything. Even if something is missing, they wouldn't dare to accuse those demonslayers - and anyway, isn't it much more likely the beggar did it? Those heroes have so many riches, surely they wouldn't steal my old cooking pot... (oh yes, they would^^)

Yes, it's a bit easy to steal, but i don't think its very unrealistic for the people in town to be unsuspecting.

Last edited by pts; 15/07/14 07:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by pts
Yes, it's a bit easy to steal, but i don't think its very unrealistic for the people in town to be unsuspecting.


I think they should be suspecting when you try to sell their stuff to them.

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Originally Posted by Tyhan
Originally Posted by pts
Yes, it's a bit easy to steal, but i don't think its very unrealistic for the people in town to be unsuspecting.


I think they should be suspecting when you try to sell their stuff to them.


I agree, but that would require an ownership tag for every item. It would work, but i don't see the benefit of this additional coding work, all the player will do is sell to a different merchant. Do you know a good stealing system in another game ?

The only decent ones i remember were in Gothic 2 and the Thief series.

Last edited by pts; 15/07/14 07:25 PM.
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"What a lovely portrait of my husband you got there! I give you 1500 Gold so I can have one for the kitchen in addition to the one in our bedroom."

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It's amazing how, um, unsavvy the NPCs are in terms of theft.

1. Using an invisibility skill (such as Walk in Shadows) or attempting (and failing) to enter Sneak mode within sight of an NPC should illicit the same response as trying to steal something within their sight they give you a light scolding, cancel the action (so you don't turn invisible), and their attitude decreases. This would encourage players to begin invisibility outside of sight range.
2. Coming out of invisibility or Sneak mode within sight of an NPC should be construed as a near-definite indication of major theft. In civilized areas, the police would immediately be summoned to throw you in jail; in less civil areas, it should immediately trigger a fight. This would encourage players to make a "clean" getaway.
3. Distracting the sight range of NPCs by having other character engage them in dialogue is a neat trick and should work, but it shouldn't work as well. The way to fix this is to have NPCs "half-face" player characters they are talking to, shifting their cone of vision towards the conversing character but not quite so far as centering the cone on the conversing character. In other words, some fraction of the effect of the current situation.
4. Ownership of stolen items should remain a property even after the item is in your inventory (although this might be hidden from player view). If you offer a stolen item back to the very person you stole it from, you should expect either the police to show up to escort you to jail, or a fight.
5. Walk in Shadows should have its duration reduced from 5 turns to 3, while having its cooldown reduced from 10 turns to 7.
6. Invisibility (Aerotheurge spell) should have its cooldown increased from 6 to 9. It can be lowered with higher Intelligence (cooldown 6 at 10 Intelligence).

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 16/07/14 02:15 AM.
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I guess for now we just need to wait for a mod that either makes stealing more difficult or that can cause some sort of negative effect for doing it?

I notice whenever you steal it tells you whom you stole it from, maybe something could be done from that, although unlikely.

Maybe someone could eventually mod it so the pickpocket skill becomes tied in some way to stealing?
Maybe if you succeed you get the item, if you fail the owner of the item will somehow magically know it was you and drop their attitude of you by 5. Eventually calling the guards on you the moment they see you. Something like this probably isn't possible anytime soon though.

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Yes, in my opinion it's far too easy.

The way that I would have liked to see it working is that you can distract the NPC with one character and go about sneaking with your other character but every xx ticks (random amount of ticks) the NPC should have a chance of turning around in your direction and if it spotted you getting up from a sneak position it would become more aware and maybe break it's conversation and then keep an eye on all of your characters in a heightened sort of awareness.

The way it works now, it's nearly impossible to fail stealing whatever you like as long as there is enough room to get your character between the NPC and whatever object it might be looking at, such as putting your character between a bookshelf and the NPC while your other character is behind it on the opposite side of the room.

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I think if the game is designed to have you think 10 at least seconds to steal anything from each room then you will soon give up stealing.

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Originally Posted by lmyyyks
I think if the game is designed to have you think 10 at least seconds to steal anything from each room then you will soon give up stealing.
I think it is important that stealing not be nerfed into the ground... merely nerfed. Right now it's too easy, but it shouldn't be made impossible. Changes should be curbed by moderation and common sense.

Being able to use Walk in Shadows right in front of an NPC and have them think nothing of it, then they see plates and cups move off the table then disappear, all without paying it any mind... that's just not common sense. If that happened to me in my house, and I lived in a world where magical invisibility was a thing, I'd probably figure out what was going on. No idea what I'd do about it, but I'd know some invisible dude is stealing from me.

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 16/07/14 04:02 AM.
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