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#505967 02/07/14 07:26 PM
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I'd like to hear people's experience with this talent.

Is backstabbing worth using daggers for?
What exactly is the bonus?
And how easy is it to use in combat with just 1 melee (lone wolf) character?

Soltaro #505977 02/07/14 07:34 PM
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It's easy to use since you can go invisible and just run up behind an enemy. It's pretty damaging (I can't give you any specific figures, unforunately) and, like with all dagger attacks, you hit twice per attack. The problem with it is that considering you have to set it up and it's a kind of one-shot thing (until Invisibility comes off cooldown, at least) it's not THAT great. I've never seen it take off half of an enemy's HP, let alone kill them instantly as you may expect (going off DnD and other similar RPGs - even Halo, for that matter).

That said, my thief isn't dedicated to it, she only has 1 point in one-handed, so maybe if you really go to town with that and get whatever the maximum one-handed damage bonus is...

Soltaro #505980 02/07/14 07:35 PM
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Backstab = 100% critical chance while behind the target, a must have for every Scoundrel IMHO.
Passing behind a target while in combat is fairly simple with a dext character as your movement should be really high, takes 1 AP to 2 AP if the target is really big, all that for a 2 AP critical attack.
You don't trigger any Opportunity attack from the target, but you may trigger it from other opponents, rendering the use of Tactical Escape or Battling Ram-like skill a great help.

Don't forget that backstabbing only works with daggers and knives ... Don't pick it with if you are using a Warrior 1 handed weapon.

Edit : Might be worth mentioning that if you miss a backstab, there is a high possibility that your target will turn to face you (even if I don't understand why it would be so, it is ...)

Last edited by Deyve; 02/07/14 07:42 PM.
Soltaro #505991 02/07/14 07:41 PM
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Yeah, I forgot to mention you can just walk closely around an enemy to get into position again. Unfortunately for me, battles quickly devolve into a smouldering plain of fire and smoke, so I often can't position myself where I like once battle's underway. Also, once you're revealed (i.e. not invisible any more) thieves tend to be squishy as hell, and go down pretty quickly. I think my thief dies roughly once every battle unless I just use her as a makeshift archer for most of it.

Soltaro #505998 02/07/14 07:46 PM
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My problem with backstab is that crit damage is capped to the dagger you use, and worse, if you ever actually miss, the enemy will turn around!

My rogue has 5 in one handed, and 50% boost barely gets you 90 damage per 2 hits. level 15 enemies. Maybe I am simply under-equipped, but I find backstab actually USELESS. I switched to bow and do about 3 times more damage, and over 15m and to groups instead of "behind an single enemy"

Soltaro #505999 02/07/14 07:47 PM
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The BIGGEST issue right now I am finding with backstab is the fact there is NO indicator on the ground as to whether or not I am directly behind an enemy to stab.

The ONLY indicator that tells you if you are directly behind them to backstab them is the backstab mouse icon that changes to it when you are.

Right now, the camera/positioning for backstab is a really big pain considering alot of times you will be "behind" the creature and still not be able to backstab until you play the clicking game to perfectly position your character in position for it.

Please please PLEASE add some sort of graphical/camera indicator to where you must stand in order to backstab without having to click all around the back of the creature...Something similar to the attack of oppurtunity area indicator would be great!

Anyone else agree with me on that backstab feels really annoying to setup since the game is VERY picky on where you stand behind a creature?

Soltaro #506006 02/07/14 07:50 PM
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Yep, I agree with that. It'd be good that if you move towards an enemy from their rear 180 degree hemisphere, the path-finding dots actually take you into position automatically (this could be indicated with a certain icon or whatever, and perhaps overrode (though I don't know why you'd want to) by holding CTRL, for example).

Soltaro #506008 02/07/14 07:52 PM
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I just slashed to pieces the Spider Queen with backstabs ... About 125 dmg per hit with a legendary dagger lvl 9, for only 2 AP I find the result awesome ...

I agree that a visual indication would be great for the direction that is facing the creature, even though with 4+ mvt, the last part of the placing don't cost you any AP.
But hell, trying to backstab a Spider Pod is seriously hard.

Last edited by Deyve; 02/07/14 07:55 PM.
Soltaro #506014 02/07/14 07:56 PM
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The last part of the positioning only doesn't cost AP in certain conditions. It's because it remembers the leftovers of your movement - so if you could move 30m for 4 AP, but you only moved 29.5, you can still move 0.5m for free afterwards. Once you've done that, any further movement will cost at least 1AP (at least that's my understanding of it, I don't want to misinform anyone).

Soltaro #506018 02/07/14 07:59 PM
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True, but getting arround a monster hardly ever get over 3 point, except for very large creatures, which give you about 1 point to pinpoint the correct position.

KabukiTV #506019 02/07/14 07:59 PM
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I completely agree. I wasn't even sure whether backstabbing was possible for me, even though I had the skill. I just couldn't see any way to initiate a backstab. Finally I just happened to see the cursor use a different icon. I still don't know what angle I have to be in to backstab rather than use a normal attack.

Soltaro #506024 02/07/14 08:04 PM
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I think Rogues take alot of setup and requires you to make sure you keep up to date with your daggers so you do optimal damage.

And make sure you sharpen your daggers laugh

Kingslayer #506043 02/07/14 08:21 PM
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Luckily I have it down to a science, and once I move into position behind the enemy, typically it actually costs me 0 points to properly move to backstab.

Regardless, this is definitely an annoying issue and hopefully can be looked into.

We need like, a small 15 degree area cone of view sort of thing that lets us see where exactly we can stand in order to backstab a creature.

I think the reason why this isn't easy, is due to the idle animations of creatures and such, causing the backstab to need fine tune adjustment to get in the right position for such a thing.

Soltaro #506045 02/07/14 08:21 PM
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You dont need to do setup purely on the rogue... you can have mages teleport the rogue to the monster OR the monster to the rogue.

Soltaro #506056 02/07/14 08:32 PM
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It's true that you CAN do that, but it's a lot of messing around for mediocre damage. You may as well just send in a warrior with a 2H sword and start slashing away. Seriously, playing as a thief and a fire-using wizard makes this game so difficult, at least up to the point I'm at.

Kingslayer #506058 02/07/14 08:37 PM
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Don't forget to hit B now and then in battle to see the tactical (overhead) camera. I find it helpful to determine what could be considered directly behind enemies.

Ransak #506059 02/07/14 08:39 PM
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Sure, but then you are pretty much wasting AP on another character just to setup the rogue, when the rogue just needs to cast Haste etc and he's easily setup.

The issue I have is the whole "Hey I am standing directly behind a creature but hell if I can backstab" ordeal, "Let me keep minuscule clicking around the back for 0 APs until the damn backstab icon appears so I can backstab it, even if I am directly behind it already".

See what I mean?

And as for tactical, I use it. The game has a problem with registering if you are behind a character or not, I am lead to believe it's based on the model design and/or animations of said being. All B does is raise the camera to overhead.

Hell, let me edit one of my twitch videos and show a prime example of how messed backstab is right now.,,

Last edited by KabukiTV; 02/07/14 08:40 PM.
KabukiTV #506063 02/07/14 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KabukiTV
The BIGGEST issue right now I am finding with backstab is the fact there is NO indicator on the ground as to whether or not I am directly behind an enemy to stab.


This, the game is so finicky about where damage will qualify for backstab. I end up wasting like 3 AP every turn trying to get in the exact position required. Even if you appear to be directly behind them, if you are not 100% exact it will not allow you to backstab. This is with using B to go overhead to try and position myself.

It can be quite frustrating.

Last edited by perfectblue; 02/07/14 08:42 PM.
Soltaro #506126 02/07/14 09:53 PM
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Assassins/backstabbing rogues are tricky to use, but with quick movement, Heartless and 2AP/2 stabs, they can be deadly.

You really have to watch the stance of your opponent to figure out where to b-stab but once you do you can b-stab anytime.

Pros
- b-stab = 100% crits, for me I took out archers and mages before they ever had a chance to go, even when they were hiding behind a wall of tanks, (using Invis to manoeuvre into position) you need a retreat plan though if you will be surrounded by hostiles with no support
- lots of status to apply to temporarily disengage key foes, e.g. Trip, charm, etc.

Cons
- mages in party will have to watch their area spells to not harm/impede the rogue since daggers have 0 range
- you need to plan an exit strategy since you are not suited to tanking unless you want to hybrid Man At Arms with Scoundrel.

I like it but it's not everyone's cup of tea


Soltaro #506152 02/07/14 10:34 PM
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why are you prefer backstab are you gay or something

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