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well i still think marksman should have damage bonus talent point based on marksman skill points or something...

Last edited by Wrathunleashed; 18/08/14 04:28 PM.
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A lot of posts here assume that str classes have more survivability. IMO this is simply false, at least if you compare with 2h, which seems to be the main argument. It's true that str armor has higher ratings, however it does not make a huge difference, at least early on. At the same time, dex improves your defence rating which helps against the same attacks that are affected by armor. Weather the Storm seems to be nerfed in the latest patch, but even before the nerf it was mostly only good up to the point where you can start to abuse crafting. Afterwards its superficial. Picture of health is also superficial unless you're playing a non LW glass cannon. Dex classes also have access to one of the best survivability/cc tools in the game - charm. With charming touch and rapture you can create your own small army which will absorb most of the damage for you and this is available quite early and doesn't require good gear. In terms of direct shielding skills, both dex and str classes have zero.

As for damage per ap should be easy enough to do with lvl 20 common gear as a reference (since bonuses are percentage based it will scale accorgingly. I'm listing only physical damage):
lvl 20 Tenebrium scythe: 154-307 -> 230.5 avg / 4 ap -> 57.625 damage per ap
lvl 20 Tenebrium dagger: 74-124 -> 99 avg / 2 ap -> 49.5 damage per ap
lvl 20 Tenebrium bow: 95-164 -> 129.5 avg / 3 ap (quickdraw) -> 43.166 damage per ap
lvl 20 Tenebrium axe(1h): 101-202 -> 151.5 average / 3 ap -> 50.5 damage per ap

As you can see 2h indeed has the most damage (and ranged the least), however the difference is not that huge and with backstab daggers will easily outperform 2h. 1h str axe that I added here just for reference is also not that much weaker than 2h, so 1h is very viable. I think a big part of the damage discrepancy comes form the fact that most rogue builds do not have rage, which gives 50% extra damage. But rage is very easy to get with any char, as you easily can get 10 STR without spending a single attribute point. Rangers get the short end of the stick here, since rage only works with melee weapon equipped. You might get away with equipment swaps, but that costs AP. Guerilla is much easier to abuse on a ranged char though and rangers tend to have high crit chances due to high perception. You would also want soulsap and nullify to improve your damage if that's your goal, but you can get that on the other chars. A rogue would be able to actually get nullify or soulsap himself since he doesn't need perception and thus has more stat points to spend elsewhere.

Personally I finished the game with a ranger + battlemage party and it went like this:

-Early on the mage pretty much carried all the fights solo due to horrible piercing damage vs undead.
-Then I figured out charm abilitties (touch first, then rapture), making my ranger better at cc than my mage.
-In the midgame ranger damage started to actually get desent-ish, when I lined up Guerilla + Glass Cannon + Bully + Quickdraw combo and an ok bow.
-In the endgame my mage was pretty much maxed out both for melee and magic damage (usually able to kill everything with earthquake + meteor storm), however in terms of single target damage the two were actually pretty close. Guerilla is much easier to use on an archer and my ranger also had ~50% crit chance, the only major drawback was not having rage. Silver arrows are also a great way of improving weapon damage since in the lategame on most mobs at least half of it is absorbed by armor. Rangers do lack good aoe though.

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 19/08/14 12:52 AM.
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What you are talking about m8?
That is not a scythe. Sounds more like a spear
[Linked Image]

Of course, you can use some crafting and blacksmithing to improve it. Can add some tenebrium too! Too bad the elemental damage is not perfect frown

You wanna see what a scythe looks like too?

Edit: you should also remember that everyone and his mom at endgame have high piercing resistance and low/non slashing resistance. 2h is just silly

Last edited by haxingW; 19/08/14 05:11 AM.
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This is a legendary item with damage boosts. Legendary dagger or bow can have proportional damage boosts as well, so I'd say the percentage difference between the two will stay if you find equally good items. I've found 1h weapons with more damage than the item on the screenshot, so its a matter of how lucky you get smile. I've intentionally used common gear to get a fair baseline.

Piercing resistance indeed seems to be more common than other physical resistances, but its at least nowhere near as common in the endgame as it is in act 1. I have loremaster to attest to that smile.

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No it's not boosted. It's just stock spear. And that damage is really low lol.

Edit: weapon aside. Dex tree has virtually no AOE, and that makes fights very tedious. And because Dex skills sucks at late game(you don't charm or rupture, you kill shit, which ironically uses less AP, plus you won't die), there is no point of investing into DEX which makes you hit chance suffer. Of coz, you can hard CC your target but that cost AP and you can only do it once per turn.

STR on the other hand makes skill like Ram, WW and flurry more powerful. So there are pretty good incentives to invest in them (seriously, if you don't have 20+ STR, I haven't seen how stupidly OP they are). WW at high STR simply kill everything saved SOME bosses. And this makes the only saving grace of DEX toons, which is single target DPS, moot. Even if we are only talking about high HP bosses, rouges cannot keep up because of Flurry, at high STR that thing is insultingly OP. 2h can take guerrilla too. Pus, you can get like 16 PERC without even putting a single point in it, and this put your crit ~50%. So now your rouge backstab advantage is shaved too.

The main problem here is that the 2h warriors simply scale too well with equipment and stats.

Last edited by haxingW; 19/08/14 08:00 AM.
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The spear you show actually has the biggest damage boosting prefix (inhuman/merciless/monstrous/sadistic), so it is definetely boosted. I agree though that you can have much higher damage with other boosts and better base weapon.

Charm is indeed less useful in the lategame because there are no enemies worth charming, but at that point the game is so easy its kinda poitless to compare if it takes one or one and a half turns to kill everything. It's quite useful throughout the longer part of the game. Charm deals damage btw, since enemies attack each other but its of course not cost effective in terms of pure dps.

In terms of dex, its up to you whether you level it for accuracy or not, but you have the same number of ability points as everyone, so if you put them elsewhere you get some other benefits. Or you can leave hard CC to the mage, who is being able to knock down everyone in a mile radius with a single spell and get the 100% accuracy.

Regarding STR, WW caps out at 19 STR, where it deals 180% weapon damage. Being a "spell" and thus not being able to benefit from stuff like guerilla and bully (but nevertheless having its damage reduced by armor, unlike most spells) and costing 6 AP, it hardly an ap efficient single target attack. It's a good aoe, although not nearly as good as top mage spells. Flurry is a better single target attack, but again, if you count in being unable to use guerilla and bully with it, it's actually not that much better than regular attacks. Let's say that Ram is not an impressive ability damage wise.

You are correct that dex classes don't have any good aoe (I've mentioned this earlier as well), but in terms of single target it's quite possible to build a rogue that will outdamage 2h. Then again, spells are better aoe than both in my experience.

So overall yeah, str classes are probably a bit more useful, having much better aoe and let's say comparable single target damage, but I wouldn't say there's a huge gap between the two and at certain points of the game dex chars are actually better, so both types of chars are playable and it depends on what you enjoy more.

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That spear has the highest possible physical damage at lvl 20, for spears of coz. The best dagger you could find at that lvl has around 150. If you take into account Blacksmithing which boosts damage based on % of raw damage. The two isn't even comparable. You say that you can find 1 hand weapons that can outdo that spear in terms of damage. Sure, but only crafted one at lvl 22 and boosted with Blacksmithing (or not). But crafted items suck in general. Do you see that +3 CON and +3 SPEED? I've got +3 CON 3 SPEED and 3 STR. There isn't even a comparison.

Itemization heavily favors STR based toons. DEX toons need DEX and STR and INT to be self sufficient. INT need INT STR (for nullify) but that's all they can get from STR. STR need STR and INT. The only difference here is that INT has a severe case of diminishing returns at higher values of INT. That Str can easily get 18 INT, at which point he can loop Wildfire, Oath and cast boulder bash with 1 round cooldown. There is no reason to have higher INT than that for damage and CC.

Earth quake knocks you down too so unless you can be sure that it will kill everything after cast, there is no reason to use it.

WW damage isn't capped at 19 STR idk what you are talking about? INT spells damage is capped. Yes. That is why they suck. INT and damage don't go hand in hand. What top mage spell is better than WW again?

Flurry isn't much better than regular damage? lol what? Are you cereal?

STR skills are not spells, they are attacks and can crit (Except for crusing fist and useless stuffs like crippling attack).

Last edited by haxingW; 19/08/14 10:14 PM.
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You're right that blacksmithing and other boosts are percentage based. That's why the damage ratio on equally boosted items is the same as on base items I've listed. So if a dagger deals 85% damage of the 2h per ap it will still deal 85% damage with any equal boosts. I don't see where this favors str weapons. Daggers could have the same stat boosts as well so I don't see your point at all. Per ap 2h isn't that much more damaging as I've showed previously.

INT actually scales better than STR since it reduces ability cooldowns. Boulder bash isn't the hottest spell around. All damage dealing abilities are capped at 150% efficiency, WW included. They need their requirement + 10 in the relevant attribute. WW requires 9 STR -> capped at 19. Now that it also scales with weapon damage it will scale as you find better items. But you won't benefit from STR higher than that. Flurry is capped at 21 STR. I'd say you want 26 INT to be fully efficient with most spells. 34 if you want to do really stupid stuff like earhtquake each round, but that's hard to get and requires a lot of luck with codices of pestilential thought, so generally not worth it. Its not that you can't get both 21 STR and 26 INT on a single char though.

Earth quake doesn't knock your party down if they're immune, which is easy to get on a plate of you can take a perk if you're unlucky with that. It doesn't knock the caster down at all.

Meteor storm easily outdamages WW. At level 22 with 23 INT or higher it deals ~650 base average damage per meteor. Each target in the area (larger that WW) is hit I would say 3 times in average, 2 at the very least. Now if you stack up oath + rage you get 1300 per meteor. Assuming 0 base fire resist, if you stack up burning (applied by the storm itself after the 1st meteor, or you can mix in another fire spell) and nullify you get 70% damage bost -> 2210 per meteor. Now if you really want smth dead you can also cast soulsap, although that's only 1 target but that's 2860 damage per meteor. I also don't count burning damage here. If you don't count soulsap its generrally 4-6k damage in the area, which is more damage than most bosses have hp (deathlord if I remember correctly has smth like 5k). If you have a hugeass boss like void dragon you can cast soulsap + also all 8 meteors will hit due to size. That's over 20k damage. Nothing has that much hp. If you combine earth and fire spells you also get a lot of extra fire and poison damage from ooze explosions, but since I don't know the exact rules for them, it's hard to account for. I would say Earthquake is also better than WW, it might have lower damage but its area is huge + it's a nice setup for other skills.


Flurry indeed isn't MUCH better than properly setup regular attacks, because it doesn't benefit from guerilla or bully (but it does crit and can miss/be blocked and is migitated by armor). So it has some properties of auto attack and some properties of spell, like other STR skills.

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 20/08/14 06:48 AM.
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1) Flurry and ww does benefit from bully.
2) You shouldn't pigeonhole your items just for 1 skill. That is just bad. And you can't never get it down to 1 cd. 34 is nowhere near enough.
3) Boulder bash is for the 1 turn cd knockdown. Use it just like touch skills. I have more control over it.
4) My ww does average 1k mixed damage of slashing, elemental, and rot. Realisticly speaking, my chance of 0% slashing resistance >>>>>> then yours of fire resistance. You know this. And you also know that not all meteors will hit.
5) If you can soulsap it I can too!

Let see: my auto damage is 1k average. oath + rage+ melee power stance + bully = 2.75 k damage. Nullify makes it ~4.7k. If you want to be extra fancy, let's add soulsap. That makes it ~6k damage. Oh wait it can crit (you can have absurdly high PERC easily)! That's 12k damage. Oh yea! We can add guerilla too! thats

24k damage per NORMAL HIT

How about flurry! 1k * 4= 4k. Bully = 6k. If all crit = 12k. Nullify+ soulsap = 26.4k

A bit better. But you are right. That normal attack brings much more pleasure than flurry!


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Originally Posted by haxingW
Let see: my auto damage is 1k average.

I'mma need a screenshot of this.

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Originally Posted by haxingW
Itemization heavily favors STR based toons. DEX toons need DEX and STR and INT to be self sufficient.


Why does any character need to be self sufficient? Wouldn't making 4 characters be good at what they do and compliment each other make more sense? Not that my Dex characters don't dabble in witchcraft and stuff but they generally stay away from things that require tons of Int to work.

Is there any reason to put Str or Int on a Dex character other than to allow Str or Int abilities/spells to be effective?

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Alrite. you got me.
509- 1288 so more like ~900 damage. Coz I only have 8 tenebrium :p

Couldn't find 1 ring with 2 CON 2 SPEED 2 PERC 1.26 speed AND 1 tenebrium let alone 2:( I figured I valued those con and speed more than 1 tenebrium.

But for the sake of argument, let's use the best case scenario. My 1k auto is quite reasonable smile

Edit: you want INT on your melee to make a God walking among mere mortals, including the void dragon. :p

Last edited by haxingW; 20/08/14 08:23 AM.
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Originally Posted by haxingW
1) Flurry and ww does benefit from bully.

Yeah, it probably does, never tested that throughoutly
Originally Posted by haxingW

2) You shouldn't pigeonhole your items just for 1 skill. That is just bad. And you can't never get it down to 1 cd. 34 is nowhere near enough.

But I don't pigeonhole anything, kd immunity is overall very useful. If you have ranged chars you can simply stay at range with everything but the earthquake guy. Or you can use helping hand awterwards smile. At 34 int you get (34-4)/2 = 15 turn cd reduction. Earthquake base cd is 16 turns. Do your math.
Originally Posted by haxingW

3) Boulder bash is for the 1 turn cd knockdown. Use it just like touch skills. I have more control over it.

But it has neither the aoe nor the damage of the earthquake.
Originally Posted by haxingW

4) My ww does average 1k mixed damage of slashing, elemental, and rot. Realisticly speaking, my chance of 0% slashing resistance >>>>>> then yours of fire resistance. You know this. And you also know that not all meteors will hit.

My calculations were for average amount of meteors. All metors will hit only really big targets like dragon which I also mentioned. Things with fire res are usually weak to cold. Meteor storm deals more than 1k damage provided 2 meteors hit which is always the case, at least for the central area (3 more likely) + has much bigger aoe. WW is also affected by armor, while spells are not (more on that below).

Originally Posted by haxingW

5) If you can soulsap it I can too!

Yep
Originally Posted by haxingW

Let see: my auto damage is 1k average. oath + rage+ melee power stance + bully = 2.75 k damage. Nullify makes it ~4.7k. If you want to be extra fancy, let's add soulsap. That makes it ~6k damage. Oh wait it can crit (you can have absurdly high PERC easily)! That's 12k damage. Oh yea! We can add guerilla too! thats

24k damage per NORMAL HIT

You calculations are a bit off. First of all, your auto avg damage is 800 according to your numbers below, which is pretty close to max you can get I would say. It also requires extensive savescumming to get that kind of damage legitimately. So 2.2k with all buffs. For some reason your nullify multiplies by 1.7 rather than 1.5 smile. So 3300 with nullify or 4400 with soulsap. Let's say we count average (not max) damage and have 50% x2 crit -> 6600. With guerilla that's 13k. Now comes the thing. All damage from warrior skills and attacks is reduced by armor. Anything having enough hp to matter has about 100 armor so it takes roughly half damage. So really your damage about 6.5k on average which is more down to earth and consistent with empirical data. That's a normal attack, but it requires a lot of setup in terms of buffs and debuffs and at that point you can probably kill stuff with a branch. Note that you can do exactly the same damage with 15 str (or dex), and it doesn't have to be 2h, since as I've shown you other weapon types are not far in terms of damage per ap (per hit 2h is significally higher, so If you like big numbers then it's best). I won't go over your flurry calculations but the same stuff applies. And we both seem to agree that regular attacks aren't much worse with proper setup.

Overall as I've mentioned I have a maxed out guy with both magic and physical dmg. Maxed out means 26 Int, 18 Str, 9 tenebrium, level 5 fire and earth magic, top gear, bully, guerilla, glass cannon and whatnot. Realistically on strong opponents endgame I've seen WW do like 2.5k damage (higher with crit), flurry about 8k dmg. Magic performs better in terms of aoe from my observations, but worse on single targets, mainly because game has a disturbing lack of 300 armor 90% block opponents. Looking for difficulty mods to fix this glaring issue. When I had to kill my char for Cassandra quest I had to use death punch because nothing else dealt any damage smile. In hindsight I could've unequipped some items. Magic also starts out much stronger so overall mage transitioning into battlemage seems like a better career path.

Also, for all intents and purposes, anything over 10k damage is infinite damage since there are no enemies to use higher damage on. If you fancy seeing high numbers, I've seen lava core show 60k or so, but that number is irrelevant since it just kills stuff (the numbers probably are target's health * x).

Also, since telekinesis has no cap on lifted weight, your max damage is only capped by how much shit you can gather and put in a chest. Carry limit is also irrelevant since you can teleport instead of moving smile.

One a more serious note, I still don't see what makes 2h str chars special. Most good damage buffs and debuffs come from str and int skills but most of them can be provided by allies and/or don't require a lot of investment. So dex chars can do just as much damage with weapons. As already mentioned, the only problem is lack of good aoe for dex.

P.S. doing a staff two handed fighter with no spells playthrough right now to see if that provides any challenge

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 20/08/14 10:29 PM.
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Knock down is pretty bad because you must have that armor with knockdown immunity body building +2 con/speed/int. Good resist and fashionable. The less degree of freedom there is, the harder it gets. Yea, you may be right. For some reason, at 18 INT my EQ has 16 turns CD.

You don't use boulder bash for damage... And EQ damage is bad.

Meteor is bad because you don't just fight that dragon. If you want to super cheese it, just use lava core. Or just rain and freeze the surface before it lands for some fun.

509 + 1288= 1787 and /2 =~ 900. Like I said, I only have 8 tenebrium

I have 2 LW toons with 24 STR 18 INT 14 CON 14 PERC 14 SPEED each (ok the other LW doesn't need that much PERC for trap). Both have 5 armor 7 tenebrium 5 sneak 5 leadership can choose to have 5 in any magic school. Each has 2 in almost all magic schools. 7-8 willpower and body building. One has 5 BS and 5 crafting all the time. Of coz I must have 5 loremaster somehow.

A maxed out toon can have 26 INT 26 STR all the time and 10 tenebrium, nevermind the rest of the stats. 1k damage is easy to reach if I want to sacrifice some CON and SPEED and movespeed.

Of coz that calculation is based on a dummy target. Because a for a real boss, your meteor deal nowhere near 1/4 the damage you mentioned.
90% block doesn't mean much if the target is cc'ed. I also find it disturbing with the lack of 200$ elemental resistance enemies. Maybe a mod can fix that too :o

About the other weapon. IDK mane, my scythe has like 480 or something slashing, 150 elemental and 150 rot. Idk what weapon you have in mind that doesn't fall that far in terms of damage. Enlighten me.

Crushing doesn't make your toon bleed much yea. But idk any of my toon I flurry the other quite easily, through bleed too.

Edit: lol maybe not both 26 STR and 26 INT. Difference should be -5 due to weapons, but keep in mind you can have +2 INT rings smile

Oh, and if you want to talk about auto attack only, you must use sneak. So add that +1 AP and multiply the damage per ap by 2. See if other weapons still "doesn't fall far off"

Last edited by haxingW; 20/08/14 11:35 PM.
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Like I said, don't need the armor, just a bonus if you find one. Good resist on armor is not needed if you have rubies. rubies are enough to get you to 100%, everything else is a bonus.

EQ damage is not bad, raw damage is about 1/2 of the maxed ww but if you count in the radius and the fact that the dmg is elemental (so not affected by armor) is actually pretty good.

I was able to consistently oneshot the bosses (including void dragon, who has the most hp) with meteor from the point I got it, provided I do full buff/debuff, so not sure how much better it can get. Can do that on turn 1 without any prep as well if one char does debuff and the other buffs up and attacks. On turn 2 when glass cannon kicks in a single char has enough ap for the combo. It also easily kills all regular mobs in the vicinity, having almost twice the radius of WW. I wouln't define this as bad. Like I said, I have access to both, in most of the situations meteor is better.

In terms of physical res: 200 armor means 1/3 physical dmg, combine that with 75% block and you take only 8% of physical dmg. Now I'm pretty sure 100% block is also possible, but that's beyond the point. Like I said, mobs just don't have these stats. The dragon has 200 armor though if I remember correctly. Death punch works very well vs high armor because while being physical, it ignores armor. 200% elem resistance enemies are plentiful, just not all elements at once (although there are few exceptions).

Don't have time for the weapon pics now, will post later smile.

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 21/08/14 01:39 AM.
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Originally Posted by haxingW
1) Flurry and ww does benefit from bully.
2) You shouldn't pigeonhole your items just for 1 skill. That is just bad. And you can't never get it down to 1 cd. 34 is nowhere near enough.
3) Boulder bash is for the 1 turn cd knockdown. Use it just like touch skills. I have more control over it.
4) My ww does average 1k mixed damage of slashing, elemental, and rot. Realisticly speaking, my chance of 0% slashing resistance >>>>>> then yours of fire resistance. You know this. And you also know that not all meteors will hit.
5) If you can soulsap it I can too!

Let see: my auto damage is 1k average. oath + rage+ melee power stance + bully = 2.75 k damage. Nullify makes it ~4.7k. If you want to be extra fancy, let's add soulsap. That makes it ~6k damage. Oh wait it can crit (you can have absurdly high PERC easily)! That's 12k damage. Oh yea! We can add guerilla too! thats

24k damage per NORMAL HIT

How about flurry! 1k * 4= 4k. Bully = 6k. If all crit = 12k. Nullify+ soulsap = 26.4k

A bit better. But you are right. That normal attack brings much more pleasure than flurry!



it really comes down to your gear's quality really...so...instead of telling us that arms can do 50k damage or whatever, why don't we just use a level 5 weapon (crafted white) and do the calculation without any buffs to standardize the whole thing.

because if you are a rogue and what happen if you have a dagger that does 1k damage? you hit twice, and thats 2k and it is crit guarantee with backstab, that is 4k. and then only costing 2 ap meaning if you attacking twice for 4 ap that is 8k damage.....not to mention rogue usually can move faster, and start with more ap and gain more ap thanks to spd stats which is common for dex based gears....every turn a glass cannon rogue with speed buff slapped on top of it will just be madness ap pool....moving around the field, much more efficient than battering ram.

and also remember that it is just raw damage, and each battle will always have something that will throw off your character like smoke, burning ground, poison field, static clouds and knocked down, frozen arrows (don't you just hate those archers?) and charm (assuming you probably won't be going willpower/bodybuilding.)

cus you aren't going to be swinging that 2 handed weapon every turn without moving or being kite or stunned...even if you use that batteringram, it has cooldown and you face overkills and enemies will not be likely to be aligned perfectly to your favor....

the biggest frustration really comes from the slow movement and since you are melee, enemies will flank you and your defense bonus will go down and archers/mages will kite you if you ever do battering ram, you are stuck after killing 1-2 of them. battering ram has 15 m range which is pretty short.

this game is weird, the starting part of the game is where the difficulty peak is....then it gets easier and easier and easier, where the final boss was the easiest battle....you are not the only person. i bet everyone felt the same way...near the end of the game, you characters just do insane amount of damage. each boss will be dispatched in 1-2 turns. it is because of the nature of this game, where they didn't really limit which ability each class can have and cannot have. so by the end of the game, your characters just have everything you can have and destroy everything.....

Last edited by Wrathunleashed; 21/08/14 03:43 AM.
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Str 5 12
Dex 15 20
Int 11 13
Con 9 11
speed 8 11
per 6 8

single handed 3 6
Tenebrium 1 2
Two handed 0 1

Armor Specialist 0 1
body building 2 4
shield specialist 3 4
willpower 1 3

expert marksman 1
Scoundrel 5
witchcraft 5

Charisma 1
Leadership 2 4
lucky charm 1 3

loremaster 3 6
lucky charm 1 3

lockpicking 1 2
pickpocketing 1 3
sneaking 1 7

All skilled up
back stabber
bigger and better
headstrong
lightstepper
pet pal
swift footed

The first column is base stats, the second number following it is stats after Traits and gear is figured in. While playing I did not really take traits into account when doing my dialogue, I just played "the good guy" and that gave me sufficiently pleasing buffs and stats.


This rogue has:

Level 21

Damage 191-284
Armor rating 117
Blocking 77%
Critical Chance 18%
Offense Rating 169
Defense Rating 159

HP 2304
AP (max 19) (start 11) (turn 9)

Resistances:
fire 190%
water 125%
earth 145%
air 195%
tenebrium 20%
poison 85%

sight 28.20
hearing 13.00
movement 5.90
initiative 20

The only skills I have on skill bar a all are
Tactical retreat
Daggers Drawn
Death Punch
Walk in Shadows
oath of desecration
Invulnerability
Death Knight Bane
Resurrect
Summon Armored Undead Decapitator

Those are the only skills I used at late game and no other skills.

Effects from gear and Traits:
Immunity to slipping
Allows you to cast Iceshard(never used on this character)
Inflict poison on contact
Immune to curse
Immune to fear
Immune to Charm



My favorite combo is:

Turn one: Stealth and go behind the toughest enemy in battle, end turn
Turn two: Go behind that enemy again because by now it has moved, end turn
Turn three: Move to behind the enemy again because he has moved, Oath of desecration, daggers drawn(backstab bonus), end turn
Turn four: Move behind enemy again, Death Punch, attack(backstab bonus)until I run out of AP, this killed everything in the game except for the final two bosses.

To top that off, I also used this character to do everything, he was my "main character" the other one was just there for a free ride and to give me extra stats from traits from dialogues.

In the end, this guy was very lethal and was impossible to hurt with anything but status effects. Not even lava could hurt me, in fact it healed me. I was always nuking my rogue along with the enemies, didn't bother using heal skills because Friend and foe alike were always healing him with their attacks.

In the end, he was the absolutely most useful character I had, he did tons of damage and was a defensive monster at the same time, in that he would soak up damage but never actually get hit.

There is no way that I built the best rogue possible. In the right hands(not mine I am sure) this very same build could be optimized to be even better than it is, so as overpowered as it was for me, if someone who was better than I was was in control of it, it could have been better.

There is no such thing as underpowered in this game, everything is overpowered, all of your characters are overpowered no matter what, it comes down to just building the right character for you.

I mean, even as far as stats goes, you are not limited to just what you get when you level up, once you unlock the secret keeper in your homestead, every time you level up she has two new books available for you, then add to that the fact there is no level cap, I could have conceivably pushed my characters up to level 23(there were things I did not do, i did do most of everything though), during the last boss fight, after I killed the first boss, all my characters hit level 22.

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You can't never find a dagger that make you do 1k average damage. The best lvl 20 legendary dagger has 150 raw piercing. I've posted my warrior screen somewhere. Have 5 movement speed unbuffed (having more than 5 movement speed is pointless I have tested that). As you level up, all of your stated weakness of STR based toons are gone.

And I am sure that rouge is OP but can be much more improved. I may have gone off topic a bit boasting about my toons.

The main point here is that there is no distinctive features of INT and DEX based toons that cannot be replicated by a STR one given enough gears. That is just bad design.

There must be something distinctive, some perks for DEX and INT that no matter what gears the STR toons have, cannot overcome. And there must be an AI strong enough for those perks to really matter. Right now everyone can be invincible, and all is boiled down to damage.

If I want to start over as a DEX or INT toon and maximize their potential, I would be doing the same shit as my old STR ones at end game. That's bad.

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[Linked Image]

Posting weapons (1h and 2h) for comparison as promised. Pretty sure this is as op as it can get. Let's do the math.

(172 + 51 * 3 + 434 + 130*3) / 2 = (325 + 824) / 2 = 574.5 (2h average)

(133 + 39 * 3 + 265 + 79 * 3) / 2 = (250 + 502) = 376 (1h average)

Per ap:
574.5 / 4 = 143.625
376 / 3 = 125.333

Ratio: 125.333 / 143.625 = 0.872
1h deals 87% damage of 2h, but you can also get a shield with nice stats as a bonus.

Per ap with sneak
(574.5 * 2) / 5 = 229.8
(376 * 2) / 4 = 188

Ratio: 188 / 229.8 = 0.818.
1h deals 81% of 2h with guerilla.

The same goes for other weapons, the ratios I gave earlier for common weapons are valid for superenchanted gear as well.

I agree that combat system is broken at high levels, but you can cheese it with dex, str weapons or spells equally well. So this is not the problem of str being OP or dex UP, but a problem of the system itself.

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 21/08/14 08:20 PM.
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Can you enlighten me on how to make a legendary weapon with 2 elemental types and tenebrium?

That is not the max you can get for 2h sorry.

Your % is good and all but remember this is a turn based game. You either finish your enemies or you don't. That 20% if translated to absolute number is a lot.

Example: WW. You either kill everything with 1 WW or you don't. What if you have used both WW and DV and there are still 6 AIs left with 200 hp each? If you use 1h weapon and after all the modifiers, you certainly lag far behind 2h in this regard.

There is not such thing as DPS in effective game play. No one grinds bosses end game. You either kill the boss or it is alive, whether with 1 or 100 hp doesn't matter one bit. You can be objective with numbers all you want but in the end, no one will agree with you that 1h "does not lag far behind 2h" when they actually play the toons.

Let put it this way:
Both the 2h and 1h have 20 AP per turn, and both have to fight a same boss. The 2h kills the boss in 1 turn. He has used 20 AP for this boss.
The 1h takes 2 turns to kill the boss. He has effectively used 40 AP for this boss.

God forbids if the boss heals himself or cast some defensive stuffs or cc the 1h, you will be looking at even more AP for the 1h. Worse, the boss has healing mechanics like that of leech or zombie, the 1h may not even be able to kill the boss.

Last edited by haxingW; 21/08/14 09:40 PM.
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