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Having a Diablo-style loot system in a game with no random enemies or encounters ruins the balance of the gameplay and also makes exploring far less interesting. When any random enemy can drop a magical item with any stats on it it really makes opening chests or killing bosses less rewarding. Magical items should be rare and have their own stories. I really hope for Larian's next game they change the loot system to be closer to games like Baldur's Gate or Morrowind, not just for gameplay balance but also for world building.

I have boots with +1 bartering on one of my characters, I probably looted them off a skeleton or zombie. How much cooler would it have been if I got those boots from a quest tied to a merchant, or even looted them off the body of a travelling merchant? It's little things like this that go a long way to making the game world feel alive.

Although I am really liking Divinity OS, I haven't felt like the world could be real, it just feels like I'm playing a video game.


Last edited by ChocoboWarrior; 04/07/14 11:36 PM.
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I rather like the randomness of the loot. Means I'll never know what to expect, especially in later playthroughs. Static loot drops make things too predictable for me and end up sucking some of the fun out of my next time through. Just my $.02 tho.

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Honestly, I don't mind the random loot system. What I do worry about, though, is the knowledge that there's only a finite amount of loot sources in the game, which doesn't go hand-in-hand with a random loot system very well. Since there are no respawning enemies or sources of treasure, your luck will ultimately determine whether you'll find items you can use or not throughout the entire game - unless you're willing to savescum a lot, repeatedly reloading before opening chests or checking merchant inventories until they have something you can use. This is something that I imagine will be especially problematic at very high levels, near end-game, because by then you'll be far too invested in your character to go through the monumental effort involved in respeccing them just so you can use the random gear you found (rather than being able to just go out and grind some more until you get random gear you can use with your current build).

Here's to hoping that one of the first expansions or add-ons they provide is something that allows for a bit of grinding (an arena, a dungeon, a battlefield - anything, really). Goodness knows I'm already incredibly tired of cracking open quest reward chests, only to get nothing but gear that none of my characters use.


Last edited by SagaDC; 05/07/14 12:00 AM.
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And here's me again... wondering YET AGAIN why people in godsname want to ADD grinding to their game...

I've yet to have a response that made me understand, but give it your best shot...

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I don't know.. I feel like I'm grinding every time I start a new game and all the containers in Cyseal need checking. It doesn't feel that far removed from smashing every container I come across in Diablo (although at least it's quicker in Diablo).

I would have preferred a better loot system, one with a little more focus, a little fewer loopholes, and lot less influenced by RNG.

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I'm not necessarily saying that grinding is a good thing, but more that it goes hand-in-hand with a random loot system. Generally speaking, for a self-contained RPG like this, a hand-placed loot system might have been a much better idea (or even a hybrid system, with predominately hand-placed loot supplemented by "random" bonus items). But all things considered, a refit like that would likely take far more work than adding some respawning enemies or specific "grinding" areas to the game.

As it currently stands, it is entirely possible (and not even that uncommon) for a player to go large periods of time without ever seeing a drop that they can actually use. This can be mitigated somewhat by making sure that the party members each use different types of equipment, but even then there will always be some characters who are simply luckier than others when it comes to upgrading their equipment.

I've actually gotten close to Level 10 in some of my runs, with members of my group still being saddled with Level 2-3 items simply because I haven't stumbled over anything better - and every time I get a drop that I can't use on any of my party members, it comes with the disappointment of knowing that the source of that drop is gone forever (ie, the chest will never refill, the enemy will never respawn, the merchant's inventory is now 'set' at least for a time). That leaves me with little choice but to push onward and keep my fingers crossed that I'll eventually see something they can actually upgrade with. :P

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There are some set loots, like the smelly panties, unique boss weapons, the charm arrow on the skeleton archer by the undertaker's hut (provided you didn't let him use it on you before he died), etc.


If every loot drop was set, it would be really boring

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Well sure, that's why I suggested that a hybrid system might have been a good compromise. It would have assured a more "even" distribution of loot, while maintaining some degree of randomness to keep the player guessing.

Things like Unique Boss weapons or quest-dropped items (such as the panties) are nice, but early-to-mid game those are few and far between. If a player is ready to build their team around those kinds of items, to ensure that they'll be able to use one of the few non-random drops, that's fine. But that kind of thing requires foreknowledge of what the game is going to throw at you.

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I'm just saying that it is already a hybrid system, with set loot and random. Just random is a lot prevalent.

I'm guessing you want more set loot, which is fine, but how to implement it? Something like all chests are set but crates are random? All containers in town are set with all the containers in the wild are random?

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Nah, my initial suggestion was actually that many of the issues could be avoided by simply having more areas to find loot. The game in its current state isn't really set for something as big as a loot overhaul, and really - I wouldn't want them to do that, anyway. I do like it the way it is, despite any issues I might have with the way it's been implemented.

It's just that my suggestion toward adding a few "renewable" areas to the game was immediately met by someone else bemoaning that the game didn't need more grinding. Most of my arguments have been more in regards to WHY a bit of extra opportunities for grinding would benefit the current system.

Changing things over to predominately set loot with randomized elements is more a "what-if" bit of speculation, based on how I personally think they SHOULD have done things. Not what I think they should try to change it to now, post-release.

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Originally Posted by SagaDC
It's just that my suggestion toward adding a few "renewable" areas to the game was immediately met by someone else bemoaning that the game didn't need more grinding. Most of my arguments have been more in regards to WHY a bit of extra opportunities for grinding would benefit the current system.

The 2nd game in the Divinity series, Beyond Divinity, had your renewable grinding areas feature. It was called the Battlefields. It's widely considered the worst idea ever seen in a Divinity game.

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I think the problem could be solved with random loot that has a slight to moderate lean toward the skills and stats of party members. Game detects that Character 1 has high intelligence, high aeroturge, low strength, and gives a boost to rolling a staff or robe that the character can use. Unless that's already in the game? Now that I think about it I don't think I've found *any* decent bows, and none of my characters are rangers.

I haven't had too much of a problem at the moment, but I can see it being an issue in the future. There have been short but significant periods where I've had a character in desperate need of a weapon upgrade that wasn't forthcoming, and it can set you back a tad.

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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter
And here's me again... wondering YET AGAIN why people in godsname want to ADD grinding to their game...

I've yet to have a response that made me understand, but give it your best shot...


Why are you grinding? Do you play D&D and then demand the DM re-roll your loot encounter until you get what you want?

How about this... Take what you get... then move on? That too hard or does your OCD demand that you reload over and over?

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Originally Posted by Zozma
I think the problem could be solved with random loot that has a slight to moderate lean toward the skills and stats of party members.


What about the members that aren't currently in the party? Are you saying that the player will then have to drag along the party member they want to get loot? Those type of loot systems exist in many MMORPGs and are one of the aspects that are slowly killing them. Where is the fun in finding gear when everything you loot is always what you need? Why play at all?

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Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Zozma
I think the problem could be solved with random loot that has a slight to moderate lean toward the skills and stats of party members.


What about the members that aren't currently in the party? Are you saying that the player will then have to drag along the party member they want to get loot? Those type of loot systems exist in many MMORPGs and are one of the aspects that are slowly killing them. Where is the fun in finding gear when everything you loot is always what you need? Why play at all?


There's an inherent difference in giving you bad loot you can trade to other players or characters and giving you bad loot that is in this specific game and will never be given to another player or character.

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I think having set loot every play through would make the game utterly boring. The random loot leaves me excited for each and every encounter on both my co-op and single player games.


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Originally Posted by SagaDC
Most of my arguments have been more in regards to WHY a bit of extra opportunities for grinding would benefit the current system.

Oddly enough, I have yet to notice a single suggestion in this thread as to what these benefits would be.

Also, I seriously have no idea what Tanist is about. Anyone willing to interpretate it for me?

Also 'drops good for you' is good in theory... until you recognise you got teammates here, can hire henchment etc. and if it does this you can never properly gear them once finding them... It's a system that really only works for games with a single protaganist.

Last edited by Hassat Hunter; 05/07/14 09:56 PM.
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My problem with set loot is that after a couple of play throughs, you know where to find the equipment you need either to get yourself set up for the rest of the game or a wealth of loot to buy stuff with. Morrowind suffered from that. I'm not saying that random loot is best, just that hand placed loot tends to lead to quick gains for those in the know (or those who browse websites).

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Originally Posted by Tyhan
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Zozma
I think the problem could be solved with random loot that has a slight to moderate lean toward the skills and stats of party members.


What about the members that aren't currently in the party? Are you saying that the player will then have to drag along the party member they want to get loot? Those type of loot systems exist in many MMORPGs and are one of the aspects that are slowly killing them. Where is the fun in finding gear when everything you loot is always what you need? Why play at all?


There's an inherent difference in giving you bad loot you can trade to other players or characters and giving you bad loot that is in this specific game and will never be given to another player or character.


Without a down, up is meaningless. Without failure, there is no success. How does one measure without a depth of perception? The point is that if you always get something of use, then what excitement is there in getting anything at all?

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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter

Also, I seriously have no idea what Tanist is about. Anyone willing to interpretate it for me?


Winning is meaningless if there is never a chance of loss. There is no peace in quiet if there is never a disquiet.

Understand?

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