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Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Zozma
I think the problem could be solved with random loot that has a slight to moderate lean toward the skills and stats of party members.


What about the members that aren't currently in the party? Are you saying that the player will then have to drag along the party member they want to get loot? Those type of loot systems exist in many MMORPGs and are one of the aspects that are slowly killing them. Where is the fun in finding gear when everything you loot is always what you need? Why play at all?


Hence why I said a "slight to moderate lean" and not a "always gives you exactly the kind of loot you need." An absolutist philosophy isn't going to work here.

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I like random loot because fixed loot just causes me to come up with routes in subsequent playthroughs to pick up all the great stuff with which to steamroll the rest of the content. That has been the case in all RPGs with fixed loot, such as the BG series.

What I don't like is that the system can be abused. Loot should be determined upon entering an area and included in the savegame file. However, shopkeepers should have fixed loot (which updates only as you level up) so you have a reliable source of items to fall back on; it took me ages to find my first crossbow.

Last edited by artemis42; 05/07/14 11:02 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tanist
Without a down, up is meaningless. Without failure, there is no success. How does one measure without a depth of perception? The point is that if you always get something of use, then what excitement is there in getting anything at all?


What excitement is there in getting an item that you know just because of its item type you will never ever use it?

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And this is what made Baldur's Gate a borefest on multiple playthroughs. Since the magic item loot was set (which I'm assuming you want since set trash loot has no purpose), you would end up having a formulaic playthrough. Rush to get Celestial Fury, get Flail of Ages, get Carsomyr, etc etc as early as possible. It's a horrible system.

Playthroughs degenerate into item checkpoints where you only progress on to the next stage when you have the set magic items and everything else can be skipped since you've got the best stuff in that area.

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Originally Posted by Tyhan
Originally Posted by Tanist
Without a down, up is meaningless. Without failure, there is no success. How does one measure without a depth of perception? The point is that if you always get something of use, then what excitement is there in getting anything at all?


What excitement is there in getting an item that you know just because of its item type you will never ever use it?


You never know what you will get. You could get something amazing or you could get something completely useless.

For example, just the other day I looted a chest near the two carnival performers and it gave me a legendary sword named "Peter Lee's Sword". The previous day I was playing with a friend and looted that same chest only to get some vendor junk. Funny thing is, I had no characters that were setup for that, but you know what? I started working one of them specifically for that after getting such a prize.

The excitement is in that you may get something amazing, or... you may get something you have no use for. That is what makes it appealing. If you know you are always going to get something of relevant use, then what I experienced can't happen. I would have ended up with yet another item of relevance to my party.

Hey, to each their own though. If people want static loot, by all means wait for a mod where someone goes in and makes everything static or rewards people with a guarantee every time. Personally, I place such loot systems right up there with level scaling. /shrug

Last edited by Tanist; 06/07/14 12:02 AM.
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Originally Posted by Icezera
And this is what made Baldur's Gate a borefest on multiple playthroughs. Since the magic item loot was set (which I'm assuming you want since set trash loot has no purpose), you would end up having a formulaic playthrough. Rush to get Celestial Fury, get Flail of Ages, get Carsomyr, etc etc as early as possible. It's a horrible system.

Playthroughs degenerate into item checkpoints where you only progress on to the next stage when you have the set magic items and everything else can be skipped since you've got the best stuff in that area.


Some may argue for static, but some are arguing for "tailored" loot (ie loot that considers your party and makeup)and to me that also is a bore fest. MMO's started doing the "tailored" loot systems and it ruined the games for me.

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Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Tyhan
Originally Posted by Tanist
Without a down, up is meaningless. Without failure, there is no success. How does one measure without a depth of perception? The point is that if you always get something of use, then what excitement is there in getting anything at all?


What excitement is there in getting an item that you know just because of its item type you will never ever use it?


You never know what you will get. You could get something amazing or you could get something completely useless.

For example, just the other day I looted a chest near the two carnival performers and it gave me a legendary sword named "Peter Lee's Sword". The previous day I was playing with a friend and looted that same chest only to get some vendor junk. Funny thing is, I had no characters that were setup for that, but you know what? I started working one of them specifically for that after getting such a prize.

The excitement is in that you may get something amazing, or... you may get something you have no use for. That is what makes it appealing. If you know you are always going to get something of relevant use, then what I experienced can't happen. I would have ended up with yet another item of relevance to my party.

Hey, to each their own though. If people want static loot, by all means wait for a mod where someone goes in and makes everything static or rewards people with a guarantee every time. Personally, I place such loot systems right up there with level scaling. /shrug


Exactly how I feel. Well said!

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Originally Posted by Tanist
You never know what you will get. You could get something amazing or you could get something completely useless.

For example, just the other day I looted a chest near the two carnival performers and it gave me a legendary sword named "Peter Lee's Sword". The previous day I was playing with a friend and looted that same chest only to get some vendor junk. Funny thing is, I had no characters that were setup for that, but you know what? I started working one of them specifically for that after getting such a prize.

The excitement is in that you may get something amazing, or... you may get something you have no use for. That is what makes it appealing. If you know you are always going to get something of relevant use, then what I experienced can't happen. I would have ended up with yet another item of relevance to my party.

Hey, to each their own though. If people want static loot, by all means wait for a mod where someone goes in and makes everything static or rewards people with a guarantee every time. Personally, I place such loot systems right up there with level scaling. /shrug


I'm not saying there's a problem with randomness.

I'm saying there's a problem with getting a bunch of str items when your party has no str characters, or the same with dex and int.

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Originally Posted by Tyhan
Originally Posted by Tanist
You never know what you will get. You could get something amazing or you could get something completely useless.

For example, just the other day I looted a chest near the two carnival performers and it gave me a legendary sword named "Peter Lee's Sword". The previous day I was playing with a friend and looted that same chest only to get some vendor junk. Funny thing is, I had no characters that were setup for that, but you know what? I started working one of them specifically for that after getting such a prize.

The excitement is in that you may get something amazing, or... you may get something you have no use for. That is what makes it appealing. If you know you are always going to get something of relevant use, then what I experienced can't happen. I would have ended up with yet another item of relevance to my party.

Hey, to each their own though. If people want static loot, by all means wait for a mod where someone goes in and makes everything static or rewards people with a guarantee every time. Personally, I place such loot systems right up there with level scaling. /shrug


I'm not saying there's a problem with randomness.

I'm saying there's a problem with getting a bunch of str items when your party has no str characters, or the same with dex and int.


That is exactly my point though.

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If I was a merchant I'd already know how to barter and I'd wear boots of speed to outrun bandits, or boots of strength so I could carry more goods around.

Now if I was a skeleton I would NEED barter boots or NOBODY in town would buy my cave-mould!



YOU SIR NEED TO STEP OUT OF THE BOX!



EDIT: Also, you can craft items. I mean.. how far into the game have you got before you popped on here to complain about such a thing as "random loot".

I disliked how in BG1/2 etc, I KNEW what I was getting and it was a total joke after a few playthroughs - it made it impossible to play through the first couple hours of the game more then once or twice knowing I could predict every possible outcome.

In the long run you will like random loot, if not, you aren't in it for the long run anyway.


EDIT#2: Kids these days....

Last edited by Kapope; 06/07/14 02:02 AM.
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Originally Posted by Kapope



EDIT: Also, you can craft items. I mean.. how far into the game have you got before you popped on here to complain about such a thing as "random loot".


Not everyone is going to put points into crafting, and putting points into crafting should not be necessary in order to have up to date equipment.

[
Originally Posted by Kapope

In the long run you will like random loot, if not, you aren't in it for the long run anyway.

EDIT#2: Kids these days....


It's fine if you prefer a random loot system, but don't simplify the argument to "if you don't like the things I like then you're wrong." There's a valid point to be made about a different system, and people are making it.

Also, static loot systems have been part of video games for a long, long time. There's no need for a "Kids these days..."


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Originally Posted by Zozma

It's fine if you prefer a random loot system, but don't simplify the argument to "if you don't like the things I like then you're wrong." There's a valid point to be made about a different system, and people are making it.

Also, static loot systems have been part of video games for a long, long time. There's no need for a "Kids these days..."



Sure, but don't forget that this game is a random loot system and all of Larian's games are this very system. While it is fine that someone has different tastes in loot systems, coming here and expecting your point to be well received would be as similar to a vegan walking into a butcher shop and admonishing the patrons for eating meat. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Zozma

Not everyone is going to put points into crafting, and putting points into crafting should not be necessary in order to have up to date equipment.


Its a nice tradeoff though. You can avoid putting points in crafting to get slightly better at other skills but you risk having to use worse gear. Or you can put a few points in crafting and always have on level gear but lose a little bit of power in your combat skills (or versatility).

Perfect trade of in an RPG.

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Originally Posted by madmarcus
Originally Posted by Zozma

Not everyone is going to put points into crafting, and putting points into crafting should not be necessary in order to have up to date equipment.


Its a nice tradeoff though. You can avoid putting points in crafting to get slightly better at other skills but you risk having to use worse gear. Or you can put a few points in crafting and always have on level gear but lose a little bit of power in your combat skills (or versatility).

Perfect trade of in an RPG.


Yep, a common problem with the games today is that they tend to allow you to have your cake and eat it too. Kind of defeats the point of strategy in character development.

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Originally Posted by Icezera
And this is what made Baldur's Gate a borefest on multiple playthroughs. Since the magic item loot was set (which I'm assuming you want since set trash loot has no purpose), you would end up having a formulaic playthrough. Rush to get Celestial Fury, get Flail of Ages, get Carsomyr, etc etc as early as possible. It's a horrible system.

Playthroughs degenerate into item checkpoints where you only progress on to the next stage when you have the set magic items and everything else can be skipped since you've got the best stuff in that area.

Your complaint makes no sense. Having set items makes for a formulaic playthrough? How does not having them solve that? There's still an optimal path to take through the game just as in games with set items... there's literally no difference.

At least set items avoids the problem where 99.9% of all the items you loot are vendor trash of no consequence. If I hadn't realized that vendors reroll their loot the first time you talk to them after leveling up, and done that to the skeleton vendor in order to roll items that weren't total trash for my characters, my guys would've been using the same gear from lvl 5 to lvl 20. Heck, some of their gear was the same from lvl 5 to lvl 20... and I was running around with 300,000 gold because there was nothing to spend it on except those tomes from the secrets chick in the homestead.

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There are some items that aren't random and that do have stories, Like the Axe of Draccus Rex which only drops from Draccus Rex.

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I actually like the loot.
What I don't really like is how Merchants restock SO rarely it's unbelievable.
It's not even per-level, I think you actually need to do a few quests before they restock.

I have an idea, why not give us an option to "sleep" or "rest" in an Inn, and when we wake up they restocked?

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You could also just edit your treasuretable.xlsm file

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Originally Posted by Shidiwen
You could also just edit your treasuretable.xlsm file


And for knowledge sake... where is that file? What do you have to unpack to get it? What do you use to unpack? And how do you repack it for in game use?

Since you dropped that... steps please.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 06/07/14 05:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by Simulacrum
my guys would've been using the same gear from lvl 5 to lvl 20.


I'm experiencing this with chest armor. Since level 5 we haven't gotten a single metal armor drop without dex or a single leather armor drop without strength.

It's kind of infuriating.

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