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Thoughts on double Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon? #509546
05/07/14 06:49 PM
05/07/14 06:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 153
Arsene Lupin Offline OP
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Arsene Lupin  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 153
I don't really like moving around a parade of 4 characters all the time, so I went ahead and gave both of my characters the Lone Wolf talent. Now, I've got Glass Cannon on my main magic-user and am considering adding it to my tank as well.

What do you guys think? Is a dual lone wolf/glass cannon setup viable? Any major weaknesses to compensate for, or built tips/advice? I'd appreciate any thoughts you all could offer.

Originally Posted by me in the Help/Tips/Tricks subforum
I just hit level 7 and would like some build advice, immediate advice for my knight and long-term for my party/pair. Before I get into the specifics of my builds, in general what I am considering is whether or not I should give the Glass Cannon talent to my knight (who also has the Lone Wolf talent, and is paired with a Wizard with both Lone Wolf and Glass Cannon).

So, basically, both characters would be Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon.

At level 7, giving my knight the Glass Cannon talent would decrease his HP from 572 to 448, which is roughly 75%. My thinking is this: that the increased offensive potential from having 18 AP per-turn instead of 9 AP will make up for the decreased health.

But I would like some input/advice before I commit.

============

And now for the specifics of my builds. All floating-stats (colored blue in the menu) are given two figures--the base, plus whatever extra is added via personality/talents/gear/etc. in parenthesis.

I currently have 1 talent point to spend for my knight.

...

KNIGHT:
STR: 10
DEX: 6
INT: 5
CON: 6
SPD: 6(+1)
PRC: 5

Single-Handed: 1(+1)
Two-Handed: 3
Armour Specialist: 1(+1)
Body Building: 1(+2)
Shield Specialist: 1
Willpower: 0(+1)
Man-at-Arms: 2
Scoundrel: 1
Bartering: 0(+1)
Charisma: 1
Leadership: 1(+2)
Lucky Charm: 1
Blacksmithing: 0(+1)
Crafting: 1
Loremaster: 0(+1)
Telekinesis: 0(+1)
Lockpicking: 2(+1)

Lone Wolf
Pet Pal
Thick Skin

...

WIZARD:
STR: 5
DEX: 5(+1)
INT: 9(+3)
CON: 6
SPD: 6(+1)
PRC: 7

Willpower: 2
Aerotheurge: 2
Geomancer: 2
Hydrosophist: 2
Pyrokinetic: 2
Charisma: 2
Leadership: 1(+1)
Lucky Charm: 1
Crafting: 0(+1)
Loremaster: 1(+1)
Telekinesis: 1(+1)
Pickpocketing: 1
Sneaking: 1

Far Out Man
Glass Cannon
Know-it-all
Lone Wolf

Re: Thoughts on double Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon? [Re: Arsene Lupin] #509570
05/07/14 07:18 PM
05/07/14 07:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 44
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Soltaro Offline
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Soltaro  Offline
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Basically your Action Point & Health ratio per turn remains the same when you pick Glass Cannon.
If you normally die in 4 hits with 10 AP that's 40 AP, compared to 2 hits with 20 AP each turn. The trick is of course surviving at least 1 round;)

Dispite no actual net gain in AP, the main benefits comes from initiation (if you can take out someone right away it matters, but then they can do the same probably) or perhaps more important: buffing.
Glass cannon allows you to buff more in 1 turn, thus better making use of the remaining "buffed" action points.

-----
The downside... well, 1 less talent point for starters!

Also, for Hard mode I believe they use a mechanic where the -25% health is added additively for a total of -75%. Which leaves you with only 25 HP for every 100 HP as opposed to 37.5 HP. An odd choice in game mechanics that actually makes you lose 33% more HP than it should IMO.

When you think about it in reverse, you only gain 25% HP for every X buff/attribute point whereas someone without Glass Cannon gets 75%. That's a triple increase while you expect only a double increase like the talent advertises..
This only applies to Hard mode though.

Bottom line is, if you think you can survive at least 1 round with your glass cannon and make proper use of the improved initiation or buffing then it can be worth it.







Re: Thoughts on double Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon? [Re: Arsene Lupin] #509686
05/07/14 08:55 PM
05/07/14 08:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 93
Fellgnome Offline
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Posts: 93
Yes, it's viable. However, my experience is that I was better off without it eventually, and the way health scales with so many things, cutting it into less than half is a bad idea. Lone Wolf has synergy with health boosts that shouldn't go to waste IMO.

I actually take full man-at-arms on my lone-wolf mages, just for the durability talents. It's odd but you have the ability points to spare and it gets me access to:

Weather the Storm: 50% magic resistance.
Picture of Health: 25% extra vitality


Pair those with Fortify and Absorb the Elements, and your Lone Wolf mages are tanks. You eventually get enough speed that you really don't need the extra AP and you'll struggle to survive in some situations with such low health.


It's a fun higher risk play style though.

Re: Thoughts on double Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon? [Re: Arsene Lupin] #509692
05/07/14 09:05 PM
05/07/14 09:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
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freche Offline
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freche  Offline
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Personally I don't understand why you would want Lone Wolf. Considering AP is the most precious thing in combat and with LF you potentially half your available AP every turn, so for me the benefits doesn't compensate at all for the loss. But everyone got their own play style.

As for your question, I haven't completed the game so I really can't answer your question but I would take a guess that it would be viable. I personally would try to get MaA quickly up to 5 to increase the effectiveness of Thick Skin and also get the Weather the Storm talent.

Re: Thoughts on double Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon? [Re: freche] #510232
06/07/14 10:33 AM
06/07/14 10:33 AM
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Soltaro Offline
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Soltaro  Offline
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Originally Posted by freche
Personally I don't understand why you would want Lone Wolf.


While you undoubtedly get more AP's with companions, the AP's you get with Lone Wolf are more buffed. The real effectiveness of this depends on your build/class though.

There are many more factors in play as well. Unique items can only be on one character for example, so if such a unique item would be significantly more powerful than all the other items, it could pay off to make the most out of it on a Lone Wolf. Same with potential stat boost potions etc...

To me personally it also heavily boils down to simply not liking the companions all that much. I would like to build them from the ground up instead of having wasted stats.
For me the game works fine with just 2 companions, I kinda like the focus on their duo interactions. And if it adds extra challenge; bring it on smile

Re: Thoughts on double Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon? [Re: Arsene Lupin] #512708
08/07/14 03:56 AM
08/07/14 03:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 142
Dmnqwk Offline
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Dmnqwk  Offline
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Posts: 142
Currently my dex char is 16 with 10 ap's a turn while my gf's wizard has 16 from glass cannon.

Due to her having +3 con on her gear, until around level 12 she actually had more health than I did even with the penalty, because constitution is very powerful.

Tbh on Normal, Glass Cannon is a much better way of getting action points than speed - so you're better off investing in some Con than worrying about points in Speed (of course, you can do both if you fancy, since a dex char really doesn't need more than about 12 dex with bonuses heh).

Lone Wolf for the sake of more action points is a bad idea, because you suffer with less people due to crowd control becoming much more effective when you get 1 person taken out. And on Hard, the health stacking would suck for anyone who doesn't have a source of vitality buffing (like picture of health).

Re: Thoughts on double Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon? [Re: Arsene Lupin] #513436
08/07/14 06:54 PM
08/07/14 06:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 35
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Actionhanz Offline
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I totally came up with the same idea after i finished my first playthrough yesterday. I thought im going for a challenge and play only with my 2 maincharacters.

But i had in mind how different certain steps of the game might become if i only had 2 characters to act with. the +80% vitality only applies to the base vitality which means only through your skill points? that means life from items doesnt count i guess. So i only get a big bonus through the AP regen. So Glasscanon was automatically the next step for me ( or will in the future ). You definitly want to have 4 character-skill sets on 2 characters. You can do this with the increased talentspoints + the gold you save from only equiping 2 chars ( you can buy skill and talent points every level for 20 k).

But to fight this amount of skills you need glasscanon in order to do enough stuff. In my playthrough basicall 2 melees killed the whole screen in a few rounds even in endgame while my other 2 chars basically only did 4 or 5 things, like hast, feathfall, bless...and thats it, i allways skipped their turn after that lol.

I ended up with 2k and 2,5k on my melees, so i know you can push your health high enough to be viable even with glasscanon ( i played on hard ). And i was even lazy with my gear and char improvement till the end since it was just to easy.

The big problem with my specc is... that i decided to play a rogue character with dagger smile so i dont get 50% resist and 25% vit from arms i guess at least.

my second char is a wayfarer type. so bow + all the importan magicspells.

dont know which addidtiol skills i will use on my rogue later, maybe fire or eart fro buffs or summons as distraction.


But double lonewolf + glasscanon defintily will work. Just make enough gold to buy the 2 talent and skillbooks every level ( i guess the vendor refresh every playerlevel ).


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