Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Dialogue needs to be better isolated

I just played a long session with my friend and the one thing we both didn't like was that only one person got to see the normal dialogue/conversation where no decision/agreement had to be made. We both had the double/dual dialogue feature ticked in Game Options, and yet one person had to use the Combat Log to follow the conversation, but the Log didn't provide information as far as the lines selected, only NPC responses. In addition to that, the conversations/dialogues were interrupted by local NPC's talking about random stuff, which made it even harder to follow the conversation the other party was having. This is even worse when an agreement between parties had to be reaches because you can't even bring up the Combat Log to see the whole conversation when the Agreement-related selection is required....

At the very lease, there needs to be a way to isolate the actual dialogue a party member is having at the moment from all the local talk. The best thing would be for all parties to see the dialogue exactly the same way (as if both are talking) and show which lines were selected to the secondary part that is only watching.

Another annoying this is that its very tedious to switch from typing in local chat to pressing a button outside of it. Let's say I want to write "M" in local chart and I do. Then I want to press "M" outside of the chat window to open the map. That doesn't work all the time because even if I type "M" in local chat and press "Enter", then the next time I press "M", it will still show up in the chat window and will not open up the map.

Finally, I find myself having to click conversation choices TWICE instead of once when a decision between parties has to be reach in dialogues. I think NPC dialogue / conversation system for MultiPlayer sessions needs to be polished or even redone. It just feels unresponsive and sluggish instead of smooth.

Also, there were camera quirks here and there, even without enabling Camera Rotation.

Outside of that, there were no Host or Client crashes during saving, loading, level transitions, and etc.

I surely expect a LOT more patches coming out, but I have already found out that there are bug-fixes which would work ONLY if one were to start a brand new game and wouldn't work on already saved games. My friend and I started the game with 1.0.53 patch, so I really hope that patch made the game playable enough!

Indeed, the focus of each dialogue should turn to all players in multiplayer, like in the Baldur's Gate series, so the other player won't feel left out. The left-out player quickly looses patient and gets distracted by anything else, like the many NPC shouts/spams of areas.
That doesn't really help to dive into the story and quests, especially if you are only given a boring moving text-screen and a little in-game book to read as introduction what the heck this adventure of so-called "source hunters" is all about.

It would already help a bit if the overhead-texts of the watched dialogues would be displayed about two seconds longer to follow them over the NPCs instead in the spammed message window.
I would still prefer a forced dialogue for all players with greyed-out dialogue options for the non-initiating dialogue-player until a two-player choice in the end is required.

Yeah! How do we make developers listen?

They already listened: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=119514128&postcount=4561

You don't need to try, they are reading this... just not on a sunday ,) We asked back in beta for this as well, but you have to remember that if this system is in place, the game would need to teleport you to the dialog location when you aren't the one starting it. Or require proximity of the 2nd player at the very least. Otherwise you could end up having dialog in combat... (and the solution they wrote about is even worse imo, as sometimes in dialog it does trigger things that 1 player can not ever handle.

I feel like coop while in theory a nice idea, is executed quite badly because the game lets you have so much freedom (yes, that's a bad thing in MP)... pretty unlike BG2 ,) There it was very easy to follow dialog, since only 1 char could start dialog at any one time and it would start it for everyone. So that removed a lot of the isolation problems you talk about.... Also the game had 1 player as LEADER who initiated travel and picked destinations, the 2nd player couldn't do that. /Although maybe they patched that later...\

How did they do it in BG2? I think that there needs to be a proximity where the other player gets forced to see dialogue. Or at least ask a player if they want to be forced into others dialogues. Choices also need to be seen because seeing what choice was selected before it was selected and not afterwards makes it cohesive. A player may not have even read the choice before it was selected, so it would stay on top of the reply.

How many players can there be for max co-op?

I am SO excited for this game like back when I played Fallout 2. I think about it even when I am not playing it. PC Gaming is back!!!

You just show it all you don't consider proximity. You know that two players are playing and everyone needs to see it. Nothing to complicated or fancy. Not being able to see it makes you feel lost and if sometimes one person does the conversation and another time the other, you'll have the blind leading the blind.

Yeah!

Best-Case Alternative:
- When Player would initiate a conversation/dialogue with an NPC, Other Player would be forced into Player conversation/dialogue IF:
a. Other Player is within 10 (or however many) meters to Player
b. Other Player is not having a conversation/dialogue with another NPC
c. Other Player is not trading
d. Other Player is not sneaking
e. Other Player is not fighting
f. Other Player is not ***doing whatever else that would make a forced conversation/dialogue highly disruptive***
- Conversations/Dialogues would retain and show Player-selected response at the top of the NPC's response for each and every Player response.
- Player responses and NPC responses would use either different font colors or different fonts or both for all players to see
- Either Player would be able to initiate a conversation/dialogue

I know when it comes to coding, it isn't nearly as simple as I made it out to be, but the idea is simple and makes the most sense. It would work much better than the way the game does it now.


Worst-Case Alternative:
- When Player would initiate a dialogue/conversation with an NPC, an independent/separate log window would appear for Other Player
- The independent/separate log would contain only ongoing Player conversation/dialogue without ANY external local NPC chatter and appear only to Other Player.
- Player responses must be listed on top of NPC responses for all players.
- Player responses would either use different fonts, different font colors, or both for all players to see.

It says:


I am not sure if that is the best way of doing it because it may disrupt whatever the other player is doing, such as talking to another NPC OR being in a completely different / far away location.

The button should be big, easy to get to, and notice to make sure the other player won't miss anything.

There should be a very obvious conversation notification/indication like a sharp button color change or button size change to let the player know that the other player entered a conversation/dialogue with an NPC.

Seeing player responses real-time may not be enough as one player may not have had enough time to finish reading the response that the other player selected. Thus, once a player selects a response, that response should appear / be shown on top of the NPC response that follows.

If the other player is located far from where the conversation is taking place, then the button or the UI should also point out the location of where the conversation takes place! Otherwise, the other player may have no idea where the NPC is located.

I think my way of solving the dialogue issue that I described in my post above this one is a better solution that using a button to solve the dialogue issue.

Look in the journal, you can see the entire conversation with player responses updated live there.

Its not perfect, but its a lot better than trying to use the combat log.

Yeah, but that slows down the game if one player needs to re-read the conversation that has already taken place.

It updates instantly, you don't have to wait for the conversation to end. You see it in real-time.

Right now the only two things this doesn't work for are:

1. You don't know your partner started conversation unless they tell you.

2. You are pulled out of the journal to the convo window if a co-op decision is needed.

Other than that, it works just fine for both people to see the entire conversation as it happens.

ALSO, there is another feature that I think should be integrated into a multi-player NPC dialogue/conversation mechanics where all players get to see the choices and responses of the dialogue-initiating player. The secondary/non-initiating player should be given an option to press a "Done Reading" button. The initiating player would still be the one making the response selections, but would not be able to proceed with response selection until the non-initiating/secondary player presses the "Done Reading" button. This would solve the problem of one player reading slow than the other! It should also be an optional feature, just like Dual-Dialogue setting in Game Options.

Have you even looked at the log in the journal? Almost every bit of how you wish the conversation would happen is already there.

That is the problem. Read the journal breaks the immersion, we should be able to follow the conversation real-time, by reading the lines above the head of the characters or the combat log. Except that the combat log doesn't include lines from the other playable character and show too much information (the lines from the NPC not talking with us).

I would like to add that MonarchX is right about the other player responsing real-time. His choices should be more visible and of top of the following answers from a NPC because :
1 - The lines from the playable character (and the NPC's too) speaking disappear too quickly for the player whose the character only listens.
2 - The lines sometimes come of top of other ones (they are superimposed) when a playable character and a non-playable character are close. Thus, it becomes impossible to know who said what and when.

I want to keep this thread going. I want some feedback from developers that they have seen this exact thread and the exact mechanism of improving co-op dialogues. I would also like to know why they think the button approach is better, which would also lead them to check out my advice on how NOT to mess up the button approach!

This is my main gripe about the game right now. The co-op dialog system with npc's (not the system where both people get to talk).

Anyone I want to play this game co-op with, doesnt want to play it co-op, because trying to follow along with the dialog is near impossible for the person who didnt click to chat with the NPC. Its like co-op was thrown in at the last minute, without any real game mechanics being designed for it. Its an RPG, there is going to be talking, to exclude one of the players from this is just a broken mechanic. It needs to be revised and fix. ASAP.

One simple solution would be this:

Currently, if a player clicks the other players portrait, it will warp their camera view to be that of the player they clicked on. Make this an OPTION for when that player is in a dialog with an npc, that the other player can do, to view the dialog window that the player is viewing. Sure, they wont have the ability to interact with most of the conversation, but they can at least READ what is being said by both the player and NPC, and the available dialog selections, and what the player selects.

Allowing the player who is not chatting, to choose if they want to click the portrait or not, works perfectly, because if they dont care about what is being said, or dont want to be interupted from what they are currently doing, they wont have to be bothered by it. But if they DO want to read it and follow along, they they have the OPTION to do so.

Seriously... this mechanic is about as flawed as making a car without wheels. So what if it looks nice, and lets people get inside it. So what if its got a great sound system. If it cant go anywhere, its broken. An RPG is largely about the storyline, and if a player cant take part or follow along with the story... ITS BROKEN.

They already can, look in the journal. I cannot understand why people continue to pretend this doesn't exist.

The conversation shows in the journal, updating in real time, including the player responses.

You act as if people are deliberately NOT doing this. In my case, it wasnt something I realized you could do. (this game has lots of hidden features like this, its not really an intuitive design - IE: the delay turn button is a great example of this).

Thanks for the tip though, its surely better than trying to follow the conversation in the little chat box amidst the other random chatter, or read super fast before the floating text vanishes.

Does the journal work for EVERY npc conversation you have? Like if I talked to random NPC town citizen #42, will the journal log that? Or is it just for the key npcs that are part of a quest or storyline? If it only works for some, then this is still only half of a solution.

Still, Id love an option that allowed me to view the conversation as if I was the one actually doing it. Just something about gameplay flow, and immmersion... yadda yadda. Its not like adding the option is going to somehow break or ruin things for people who dont care about that option.

If someone talks to some NPC after the other player starts a conversation then it messes up. Every time a new line is said it resets the window. This happens with my friend a lot as I run around with Pet Pal or want to talk to the minor NPC for a moment since I can read faster than him and would be able to catch up.