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some puzzles and riddles annoy the hell out of my butt.
but i love them the hell out of my butt.


less hack and slash (turn based style) more get-your-brain-working

are they perfect? no. (some are very cool, though).
is it differenct from other games. yes in terms of quantitiy (a LOT more than every other game i have played so far), kinda in terms of quality (some very good, some annoying one - but there's no accounting for taste even for puzzles)

thumbs up!


"I don't make games to make money, I make money to make games". (Swen Vincke)
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Originally Posted by artemis42
Originally Posted by Sykar
<snip>


Might want to spoiler-tag that.

Yea, and what is in Esmeralda's cellar? Pixel-hunting. The only reason I didn't get stumped was because I was picking up every bit of food anyway. None of the steps in that whole chain requires cleverness, only mindless searching.


1.) I hid it already prior to your post.
2.) That is your opinion. I thought the quest line was clever.
And yes, being perceptive is part of a puzzle as well.
Besides only 5 pieces of meat had to be moved/stolen to show the switch to the secret room. Furthermore you can zoom in so calling it pixil huntin while you can zoom in is a bit comical.

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Originally Posted by SniperHF
I haven't completed the game yet, but can't you basically murder your way through most of the game?
Not like an adventure where you can't progress at all without completing obtuse riddles.

I agree some of DOS's puzzles are little obtuse but most of it locks off optional side quest content in my experiences so far.


I'm afraid to do that because of the game-breaking bugs I've read about, but many puzzles are compulsory and part of the main story.

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Pixel hunting? ALT! Problem solved.

As for good puzzles... the 'clone dungeons' very early near Cyseal come to mind wink
Or would you disagree on those too. If so, I would like to know why.

Esmeralda's was easy if you loot all anyway... *AND* the rats tell you about it... *AND* you already see it when you're down there (unlike secret areas in most RPG's). How much more handholding than that do you need?

Also I find it humerous that you say 'why so many trapped areas' and then compare the game to Baldur's Gate. That game has traps coming out of your nose. If you didn't have a rogue, you would be in for a hell of pain. Think Durlag's Tower in BG1 for example... and then look here and see; It's not that bad...

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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter
Pixel hunting? ALT! Problem solved.

As for good puzzles... the 'clone dungeons' very early near Cyseal come to mind wink
Or would you disagree on those too. If so, I would like to know why.

Esmeralda's was easy if you loot all anyway... *AND* the rats tell you about it... *AND* you already see it when you're down there (unlike secret areas in most RPG's). How much more handholding than that do you need?

Also I find it humerous that you say 'why so many trapped areas' and then compare the game to Baldur's Gate. That game has traps coming out of your nose. If you didn't have a rogue, you would be in for a hell of pain. Think Durlag's Tower in BG1 for example... and then look here and see; It's not that bad...


Traps were mostly harmless for a mage/sorcerer with Mirror Image in BG 2 since they worked against AoE spells as well.

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Well, my absolute favourite adventure games, and this isn't why I like them, it's just a feature I guess, you actually can't die. I mean, there is one part in Syberia where you can die, but there's like a 10 second task and you get maybe a minute to complete it, but that's it. I guess they are more like novels. I don't think you can die in The Longest Journey either, maybe something with the...spoilers...spacesuit or whatever.

You can definitely die in this game, not with proper tactical planning, but there is a lot more to it than pointing and clicking. Still, a history in adventure gaming certainly does lessen the frustration some hardcore rpgers might be facing.

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Originally Posted by Sykar
Originally Posted by artemis42
Originally Posted by Sykar
<snip>


Might want to spoiler-tag that.

Yea, and what is in Esmeralda's cellar? Pixel-hunting. The only reason I didn't get stumped was because I was picking up every bit of food anyway. None of the steps in that whole chain requires cleverness, only mindless searching.

[/spoiler]


I actually agree that the quest was poorly executed. There are very few instances like it elsewhere in the game, though.

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But you don't have to do that to progress through the game it's not a compulsory puzzle.

you can brute force into Evelyn's hut without ever talking to Esmeralda


There are a few compulsory puzzles though.The puzzle elements are heavier here than some games and it's not everyone's cup of tea. Calling the puzzle elements terrible just because it's too hard for the OP is pretty much par for the forum though.

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Originally Posted by Songbird
But you don't have to do that to progress through the game it's not a compulsory puzzle.

you can brute force into Evelyn's hut without ever talking to Esmeralda


There are a few compulsory puzzles though.The puzzle elements are heavier here than some games and it's not everyone's cup of tea. Calling the puzzle elements terrible just because it's too hard for the OP is pretty much par for the forum though.

A lot of the puzzles were terrible.

Like the one where you have to find 4 tiny buttons that perception/alt won't detect, then realize that one of the countless books you picked up along your journey wasn't just spam, unlike the 99.9% of them that were, but in fact held the key to the puzzle.

Then there was that temple where you needed to light the torches, or whatever, in order to enter, even though it should've been possible for you to just telekenisis your pyramid over the chasm. But you couldn't, because there was an invisible wall there.

Big deal? Well, barely a moment after that you're faced with a puzzle that look exactly the same.... except you have to throw your pyramid over and teleport to it, which the game just conditioned you into thinking wouldn't be possible, with its invisible wall in the previous area.

Stuff like that is what made the puzzles bad. You bombard the players with books that are all pointless spam (and not actually interesting to read, with text like 'this book describes the adventures of gooraah the barbarian' fullstop, so you condition your players to not even look at them), then you require them to read a book in order to solve a puzzle. You erect invisible walls to prevent one way of solving a puzzle in one room, then require that you solve the next puzzle in exactly the same way that you established wasn't possible in the previous room.

Never mind the parts where sometimes you remove obstructions by attacking them, other times you remove them by walking through them, other times you remove them with hidden buttons right next to them, other times you remove them with hidden buttons in entirely different rooms, and other times the obstructions are just red herrings... there's no consistency at all. So the "puzzles" just boil down to try everything you can think of in every room you come across and hope that one of them work out purely by chance.

This isn't fun, it's just wasting your time as you mindlessly go through the checklist then move on.

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So what is a sophisticated puzzle to you?

I've played games that have puzzles like: you come to an eagle shaped hole in the wall, you have in your inventory your pistol, bullets, and an eagle shaped crest.... Gee I wonder what you should do?

I've also played Professor Layton which is basically a compilation of Mensa style brain teasers encased in cute stories.

Do either of those games qualify for good puzzles?

The myst series that gave birth to the point and click games, games like Grim Fandango, Siberia, and the Phoenix Wright series, they were critically acclaimed, but they have their fair share of "pixel hunt" and red herrings and puzzles that require multiple approaches to solve, so does that mean they have bad puzzles?

Good and bad are so subjective to the user. If you don't find it fun, I feel bad for you because I too find certain things unfun. But it doesn't mean the game is broken or needs fixing

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Originally Posted by Simulacrum
Originally Posted by Songbird
But you don't have to do that to progress through the game it's not a compulsory puzzle.

you can brute force into Evelyn's hut without ever talking to Esmeralda


There are a few compulsory puzzles though.The puzzle elements are heavier here than some games and it's not everyone's cup of tea. Calling the puzzle elements terrible just because it's too hard for the OP is pretty much par for the forum though.

A lot of the puzzles were terrible.

Like the one where you have to find 4 tiny buttons that perception/alt won't detect, then realize that one of the countless books you picked up along your journey wasn't just spam, unlike the 99.9% of them that were, but in fact held the key to the puzzle.

Then there was that temple where you needed to light the torches, or whatever, in order to enter, even though it should've been possible for you to just telekenisis your pyramid over the chasm. But you couldn't, because there was an invisible wall there.

Big deal? Well, barely a moment after that you're faced with a puzzle that look exactly the same.... except you have to throw your pyramid over and teleport to it, which the game just conditioned you into thinking wouldn't be possible, with its invisible wall in the previous area.

Stuff like that is what made the puzzles bad. You bombard the players with books that are all pointless spam (and not actually interesting to read, with text like 'this book describes the adventures of gooraah the barbarian' fullstop, so you condition your players to not even look at them), then you require them to read a book in order to solve a puzzle. You erect invisible walls to prevent one way of solving a puzzle in one room, then require that you solve the next puzzle in exactly the same way that you established wasn't possible in the previous room.

Never mind the parts where sometimes you remove obstructions by attacking them, other times you remove them by walking through them, other times you remove them with hidden buttons right next to them, other times you remove them with hidden buttons in entirely different rooms, and other times the obstructions are just red herrings... there's no consistency at all. So the "puzzles" just boil down to try everything you can think of in every room you come across and hope that one of them work out purely by chance.

This isn't fun, it's just wasting your time as you mindlessly go through the checklist then move on.


To summarize: blub

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