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#511688 07/07/14 12:07 PM
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Where is it? According to the manual you can delay a character's turn until the rest of the team have have had their turns. You're supposed to do it with the "delay turn" button.

Where is it? I only see the blue end turn button that moves to NEXT turn with extra action points. Not quite the same.

Screenshot appreciated!

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Look at the right edge of the screen - in the middle there are two buttons when you're in combat. One is to delay turn, the other to flee from combat.

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Wait, what? There's a delay turn button?

I guess I really need to read the manual tonight smile


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Yes, but delaying your turn puts you at the complete end of the queue (after the enemies).

Optimizing initiative values is a way wetter way for proper queuing imo. wink


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Originally Posted by LordCrash

Optimizing initiative values is a way wetter way for proper queuing imo. wink

Not really. Sometimes you gotta delay your turn for a more convenient situation that will deal more damage. For example, the warrior waits when the wizard puts an effect on enemies, or teleports them closer, or enemies come closer and strikes after that. Anyway, it's a good option to not waste your turn.

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I appreciate it. I saw the flee button, but the other one was inactive for some reason. Will check during next battle.

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It's inactive if that character has done anything that turn - you can't use up half your AP and then delay the rest until later, for example.

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It'd be nice to have more control over delaying, instead of moving to the end of the round. Sometimes it's useful anyway.

It'd be even cooler to be able to "ready an action" like in D&D -- to use a spell or attack on an enemy as soon as they're in range. I could see that using up some extra AP (maybe 3?) whether your condition is triggered or not, and maybe using up your move for the round even if it's not triggered.

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Holy shit, that's amazing! I've thought several times "I wish I could wait a bit" but decided there was no such feature since it seems a bit overpowered (yes, I consider waiting over powered).


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Originally Posted by Aramintai
Originally Posted by LordCrash

Optimizing initiative values is a way wetter way for proper queuing imo. wink

Not really. Sometimes you gotta delay your turn for a more convenient situation that will deal more damage. For example, the warrior waits when the wizard puts an effect on enemies, or teleports them closer, or enemies come closer and strikes after that. Anyway, it's a good option to not waste your turn.

That's the reason why you should try to boost initiative of your supporting chars. In a "perfect" party the supporting mage starts (in order to boost the melee's stats), followed by the melee to do great damage and at last the ranger/rogue and the second mage (for example) in order to stun/freeze enemies before it's their turn.

Example:
Supporting/boosting mage: 16-18 intitiative
Melee: 15-16 initiative
Others: 14-15 initiative

No real need for delays. wink

Last edited by LordCrash; 07/07/14 05:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by LordCrash
Originally Posted by Aramintai
Originally Posted by LordCrash

Optimizing initiative values is a way wetter way for proper queuing imo. wink

Not really. Sometimes you gotta delay your turn for a more convenient situation that will deal more damage. For example, the warrior waits when the wizard puts an effect on enemies, or teleports them closer, or enemies come closer and strikes after that. Anyway, it's a good option to not waste your turn.

That's the reason why you should try to boost initiative of your supporting chars. In a "perfect" party the supporting mage starts (in order to boost the melee's stats), followed by the melee to do great damage and at last the ranger/rogue and the second mage (for example) in order to stun/freeze enemies before it's their turn.

Example:
Supporting/boosting mage: 16-18 intitiative
Melee: 15-16 initiative
Others: 14-15 initiative

No real need for delays. wink


I'd rather optimize my gear for max power. If I'm chosing between +int and +speed gear for me mage, I know what will be most effective.

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Originally Posted by Aramintai
Not really. Sometimes you gotta delay your turn for a more convenient situation that will deal more damage. For example, the warrior waits when the wizard puts an effect on enemies, or teleports them closer, or enemies come closer and strikes after that. Anyway, it's a good option to not waste your turn.


I've found that since my party always has more initiative than all enemies, it's always better to simply save AP instead of delaying.

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Originally Posted by Tyhan
I've found that since my party always has more initiative than all enemies, it's always better to simply save AP instead of delaying.


Not true.
You can lose AP by passing instead of delaying. Usually not the frist round, but certainly after. You also can manipulate action order for your characters. Heal before a DOT like burn goes off. Haste before your character attacks.

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Just want to say it, but in 66 hours of playing I never ONCE saw that button... so wow.. wink That needs to be way more closer to the flee button

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Originally Posted by Brian Wright
Originally Posted by Tyhan
I've found that since my party always has more initiative than all enemies, it's always better to simply save AP instead of delaying.


Not true.
You can lose AP by passing instead of delaying. Usually not the frist round, but certainly after. You also can manipulate action order for your characters. Heal before a DOT like burn goes off. Haste before your character attacks.


If you'll get so much AP you'll go over your max, then just spend some of it to help the position. The only time delaying is useful is if you aren't at the front of the turn line, which in my experience never even trying to get initiative is basically never.

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Originally Posted by Tyhan
Originally Posted by Brian Wright
Originally Posted by Tyhan
I've found that since my party always has more initiative than all enemies, it's always better to simply save AP instead of delaying.


Not true.
You can lose AP by passing instead of delaying. Usually not the frist round, but certainly after. You also can manipulate action order for your characters. Heal before a DOT like burn goes off. Haste before your character attacks.


If you'll get so much AP you'll go over your max, then just spend some of it to help the position. The only time delaying is useful is if you aren't at the front of the turn line, which in my experience never even trying to get initiative is basically never.


As I already pointed out, even if you don't go over and assume your party is always first, it is useful to manipulate the order in which your party is activated. See above for examples.

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Originally Posted by Brian Wright
As I already pointed out, even if you don't go over and assume your party is always first, it is useful to manipulate the order in which your party is activated. See above for examples.


If the combat order is P1 P2 P3 P4 E1 E2 E3 E4 E5 E6 (which it almost always is, with almost zero exceptions outside of bosses taking the first slot) and you want P4 to setup something for anyone else, then saving your AP results in almost the same end result as delaying your turn. The difference is this way you have more AP.

Even if the order is E1 P1 E2 E3 E4 P2 P3 E5 P4 E6 then there's little reason to delay P1 for P4. Only E1 will be different if you delay versus save your AP. However delaying P2 and P3 makes sense. The problem is that this situation is basically unheard of.

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Originally Posted by Tyhan
If the combat order is P1 P2 P3 P4 E1 E2 E3 E4 E5 E6 (which it almost always is, with almost zero exceptions outside of bosses taking the first slot) and you want P4 to setup something for anyone else, then saving your AP results in almost the same end result as delaying your turn. The difference is this way you have more AP.

Even if the order is E1 P1 E2 E3 E4 P2 P3 E5 P4 E6 then there's little reason to delay P1 for P4. Only E1 will be different if you delay versus save your AP. However delaying P2 and P3 makes sense. The problem is that this situation is basically unheard of.


P1 is my fighter. P2 is my healer. P1 gets hit hard during the turn and ends up with a status effect and 2hp. If you had delayed P2 you can cast heal before the status effect procs and P1 dies. If you pass P1 goes first and dies.

I'm in that situation frequently, if not so dire. If your fight and healer are in a different order you might not see this that often.

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Originally Posted by Brian Wright
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Originally Posted by Aramintai
Originally Posted by LordCrash

Optimizing initiative values is a way wetter way for proper queuing imo. wink

Not really. Sometimes you gotta delay your turn for a more convenient situation that will deal more damage. For example, the warrior waits when the wizard puts an effect on enemies, or teleports them closer, or enemies come closer and strikes after that. Anyway, it's a good option to not waste your turn.

That's the reason why you should try to boost initiative of your supporting chars. In a "perfect" party the supporting mage starts (in order to boost the melee's stats), followed by the melee to do great damage and at last the ranger/rogue and the second mage (for example) in order to stun/freeze enemies before it's their turn.

Example:
Supporting/boosting mage: 16-18 intitiative
Melee: 15-16 initiative
Others: 14-15 initiative

No real need for delays. wink


I'd rather optimize my gear for max power. If I'm chosing between +int and +speed gear for me mage, I know what will be most effective.


Everything should be a trade-off. Choosing between stats and initiatve should be hard. And I disagree that mages always benefit from more intelligence. One additional point in speed could grant you one additional AP in combat which can be much more worth than a little boost in damage... wink

Delay is just a cheap trick. I never use it and I honestly think that the game is better balanced without.


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Originally Posted by LordCrash

That's the reason why you should try to boost initiative of your supporting chars. In a "perfect" party the supporting mage starts (in order to boost the melee's stats), followed by the melee to do great damage and at last the ranger/rogue and the second mage (for example) in order to stun/freeze enemies before it's their turn.

Example:
Supporting/boosting mage: 16-18 intitiative
Melee: 15-16 initiative
Others: 14-15 initiative

No real need for delays. wink


I play on hard, and at least for me, delaying is an essential part of my strategy. That way, my mage doesn't have to have the highest Initiative (Jahan doesn't), but can still buff my warrior, even if he were ahead in the turn order (but delayed). He'll get his full complement of buffs before he acts at the end of the current round.

Also, there seems to be little difference between just saving the AP and delaying, but IMO...I dunno, it feels better? Haha. Battles tend to start with enemies all over, but letting them go first, they often run towards my group and naturally clump. My Jahan has Glass Cannon, and if he just saved his AP, it'd be over his max (since recovery is doubled, but not starting).

I don't tend to delay if I'm confident enemies can shoot me or cast spells at me (to avoid CC). But if foes can't and they stray closer, my warrior (now buffed from lower Initiative characters) can usually Ram them, and get off another swing. And like everyone says, you tend to start first--it's like a double turn for my warrior. Very little survives a double smackdown from a heavy hitting melee character with Oath of Desecration, or if they do, I have another chance to CC them. I've found this essential for hard, as your party can't take that many hits.

Originally Posted by Tyhan
Originally Posted by Brian Wright
Originally Posted by Tyhan
I've found that since my party always has more initiative than all enemies, it's always better to simply save AP instead of delaying.


Not true.
You can lose AP by passing instead of delaying. Usually not the frist round, but certainly after. You also can manipulate action order for your characters. Heal before a DOT like burn goes off. Haste before your character attacks.


If you'll get so much AP you'll go over your max, then just spend some of it to help the position. The only time delaying is useful is if you aren't at the front of the turn line, which in my experience never even trying to get initiative is basically never.


I spend as little AP as possible to position--let them come to me is my philosophy. smile

tl;dr--when every AP counts, enemies do higher damage than normal, and you are squishier than normal--at least for my game, delaying is a cornerstone strategy.

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