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"Nothing in the game is really "new" in terms of cRPGs. People who are experienced with them aren't having problems with the game. In fact, this game was designed as a spiritual successor to Ultima VII. It also is far more intro-friendly than Ultima VII was."f

I am experienced with crpgs, going back long before Ultima VII. If I want to stumble around blindly, I'll stick with real life. If I'm going to play a game, I'd prefer knowing the rules first. Again, to clarify, I'm not criticizing the game--I like the game and will continue to play it--but the basic documentation sucks. And for that there is no excuse

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Originally Posted by Bindweed
"Nothing in the game is really "new" in terms of cRPGs. People who are experienced with them aren't having problems with the game. In fact, this game was designed as a spiritual successor to Ultima VII. It also is far more intro-friendly than Ultima VII was."f

I am experienced with crpgs, going back long before Ultima VII. If I want to stumble around blindly, I'll stick with real life. If I'm going to play a game, I'd prefer knowing the rules first. Again, to clarify, I'm not criticizing the game--I like the game and will continue to play it--but the basic documentation sucks. And for that there is no excuse


Can you give some specific examples in the game where you have to stumble around blindly because it isn't described in the manual or through some tip window in the game?

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Originally Posted by Tanist

Can you give some specific examples in the game where you have to stumble around blindly because it isn't described in the manual or through some tip window in the game?


I had to learn through trial and error that 100% fire resistance doesn't protect me from lava instadeath. That sentinels can see through 5/5 stealth but not invisibility. Had to stumble around the Cyseal outskirts trying to find Aureus' locations, because apparently he is too much of a prick to mark them on your map.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game, but it could be that much better if there was less trial and error reloading. smile

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Originally Posted by Songbird
Just because you are a "gamer" doesn't mean all games will appeal, but I feel strategy RPG players are going to have an easier time coming into D:OS than gamers from say a WOW background.


I VERY VERY VERY strongly agree to that !

DOS is basically a slap into the frace of all of the mnodern Action-RPG lovers.

And it's good that it is so, becauuse DOS is one of the only and last remaining games to be NOT Action-RPGs ...

Because ... after so many gaming companies following the trail of money and copying Blizzard's models of gaming, 99 % of ALL computer-based role-??ying games ARE Action-RPGs nowadys ...

Blizzard and their followers (in the trail) has been overly efficient in fully eradicating EVERYTHING that is not an Action-RPG ...

So, meanwhile I#ve had my "really bad experiwences" as well, I'm actually GLAD i had them - because the game is teaching me. Harsh teaching. To be strict with planning ahead. Tell me that you'd need that in an Action-RPG and I'll laugh ...


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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I suggest that the easy difficulty gets renamed to casual so people who have to downgrade the difficulty feel like shit for being such casual scrubs.

P.S. there's no fucking way you played Baldurs Gate and find this too difficult, you're probably a Skyrim kid.

Last edited by stormzjeah; 13/07/14 12:04 PM.
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Originally Posted by supe

I had to learn through trial and error that 100% fire resistance doesn't protect me from lava instadeath.


You find that unreasonable? Lava isn't the same as fire. Even so, you died and then found out. I didn't test it because I also saw the hint on the loading screen that explained that. Personally, I don't consider that one to be a failure to inform. I mean, some part of the back of your mind had to have thought it may not have worked? I mean, its lava!



Originally Posted by supe

That sentinels can see through 5/5 stealth but not invisibility. Had to stumble around the Cyseal outskirts trying to find Aureus' locations, because apparently he is too much of a prick to mark them on your map.


That is for you to explore. This is common knowledge for RPGs(ie from the D&D days and many games that used that system over the years). Stealth is a physical skill, using light and shadows to hide. Those with extremely high abilities to spot details, see at night, etc... (high perception) can see through such. Invisibility on the other hand is a magical means of hiding. Unless one has magical ability to see through such an illusion, they won't be able to detect it.

Personally, I love finding out stuff like this. My friend and I spend a lot of time messing around with different spell, skill approaches, different mechanics, etc... and we have found a lot of interesting things in the game because of it. If that is all laid out, well... it defeats the exploration of options in play.

Even if you did know the difference between that, how would you know if they could see or not unless you experimented? Are you saying the game should just tell you? How would your character know?

As for the locations, those are in general directions. You don't have to stumble around, you just head in the general direction he tells you and you will come across them. If you are expecting to have things like this dropped on your map, well... you are missing the point of this style of game. There is no hand holding and unless the NPC giving you directions knows exactly, all you will get is general directions.


Originally Posted by supe

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game, but it could be that much better if there was less trial and error reloading. smile


Nothing wrong with reloading, especially when you are new to the style and genre of the game. I disagree that the issues are simple trial and error to resolve though. I mean, testing and finding out is a huge aspect of these games. If you knew upfront because it was clearly marked for you, what is the point?

Last edited by Tanist; 13/07/14 01:08 PM.
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When I first began the game I kept getting my butt handed to me because I failed to understand the environmental mechanics.

Once you learn how to handle fire/poison/oil/water/lightning you'll be fine. You can turn the tide of an impossible battle with a well placed shot of lightning on a pool of blood, or oil around a campfire, or using fire to set alight poison everywhere.

I actually found early game quite fun. It's mid-late game when you get epic spells/skills that it tends to drag on for me as much of the challenge is gone.

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Originally Posted by Athyn
Reading this whole thread has taken awhile. To make a point that would have been better stated earlier.

I enjoy when i accidentally rush into a battle (Dietmar), realize I've compromised my position, and manage to succeed, or better, get that "Ah..ha!" moment and understand what needs to be accomplished in order for me to win.

Life is about learning as you go. If you aren't growing as a master mind strategist (or person for that matter) then what is the point of living? Grow, and expand your understanding so that you may win before the first move of the battle is even taken.

As one of my good friends once said, "They say people can change, but is that really true? If they decide they want to fly, will they grow wings? I don稚 think so. You don稚 change yourself. You change how you do things. You have to make your own way. You have to create a way to fly, even while you stay the same. "

Nicely said.

Originally Posted by Tanist


I found the whole area with Evelyn to be ridiculously easy even on hard. I mean seriously, it wasn't even remotely a challenge and I could have done it without armor and crap weapons.


What I did was setup an ambush point at the doors between the rooms. I placed a warrior with the "attack of opportunity" ability behind the door so that anyone who went through got smacked. I also dragged a large item to make sure the door only allowed a single path through it.

I also placed my pyramid in the room (with stealth) before the fight and used it to send the rogue over stealth to backstab and drop some arrows with various effects before I had them warp back the following turn.

I had my caster drop some oil and put it on fire as soon as the bulk of the NPCs got close to the entry way.

It really was an easy fight.


Yes, there are several different ways to handle it, you can basically play with those enemies as you want.

Anyway, i suggested doing a better, deeper harder difficulty as a dlc, a proper difficulty increase because i saw that the devs dont really even have time for that.

And now, this is one of the reasons why i mean to make a mod out of it.
Although there will be other adjustments to the game in it and it surely wont be simplistic changes to HP and damage.

Tinker, Tailor, Hunter mod.

Could use a few other people there too since i mean to add several new quests to the game too.


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The one bit I have found a bit annoying so far is a tiny switch on a wall where a painting was supposed to be but wasn't - but that may have been a bug.


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Yeah, that Church painting is a pain if you didn't enable 360 degree turning... if that's the one you meant.

Anyway, just wanting to say *most* people in this thread make me proud. Instead of when being toughed come whining to the forums to complain about something like a lot of others and demanding "fixes" (for non-issues) you instead simply decided to learn and get better... Glad such people still exist, I was starting to wonder it in the modern gametimes, and with many a thread's 'suggestions' even here frown

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