Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy.

The last time I bought a physical copy of a game, was Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which technically doesn't even count as it's a Steamworks game (requires Steam to download/play). The only reason I did so, was because of the retarded exclusive DLC you could only get by pre-ordering from Gamestop (have I mentioned I absolutely hate exclusive DLC bundles). Steam wasn't even offering it with the pre-order (though you could buy it after the release).

I edited the cover someone posted on the first page. With my ultra-limited Photoshop skills, I think this looks a little better.



Big version here.

Er no, that's not how things play out in Real Life. Instead:

1. A portion of those who download, play the game, don't like it and decide not to buy. Theoretically a lost sale, but without the download they likely would not have bought due to reviews.
2. Another portion like the game and buy it - a sale won and without advertising cost for Jim.
3. Some will download and never get round to playing it - so neither a gain nor loss.
4. Finally we have those who would have bought, but decided to download - whether to save money, avoid the hassle of purchase or because they were put off by registration/DRM.

It is only the last category that can be described as a genuine loss for Jim, and could easily be matched or exceeded by the sales won from category 2.

And to hear how a real-life Jim (or rather Jeff) deals with piracy, see:

The Final Answer For What To Do To Prevent Piracy
Sometimes It's OK To Steal My Games

Your ending is unrealistic. Let me handle this:
Let's consider 2 scenarios: a) Jim made a crappy game - then people are not playing but merely become convinced it's really bad and abandon it. Jim gets himself into something else than making games which he is (hopefully) better at.
b) Jim made a good game - everybody is playing it and (the better the game is the more) people want to express their gratitude and/or convince him to make more good games buy the game/contribute their money in some other way to Jim's work.

I'm not saying this scenario is working in 100% cases. But (at last) we can see the idea and strive for it. Just remind yourself about people buying several copies of D:OS wanting to give Larian more money for future projects.



The funny thing is it's been said exactly the same about paper books a while ago. I must admit e-books were never anywhere near as popular as digital releases are, yet still some gamers buy the boxes, ain't they? And what was all that fuss about with D:OS steam-free discs when we have GoG?

Edit: Haha @Stargazer you handled it quicker thn I did, and better worded to that

Reason #1 to not pirate games: Sooner or later, I promise you, you're going to catch some nasty malware or a virus.

I used to pirate and thought I was really good at making sure I was downloading clean files. It only took one mistake that took out my hard drive and OS kernel to make me realize that it wasn't worth it.

That being said, I still don't buy from Steam or other services that require an overhead application. You can find almost any game on DRM free sites like GOG or Gamersgate for super low prices.

I get the OPs frustration. I am oldschool and love having a box, manual and other goodies that we used to get. I hate the new digital bullcrap. But nowadays if I wait for the right sale, I can buy the game at a major discount and print a copy of the map, box and manual at fedex/kinkos for about the same price it would have cost me to buy it off the shelf in the old days. Yeah, that's not the most convenient solution, but it works. And I only do this for the games I really love.

Good point, but it's a little bit different with books. It's a different feel while consuming the product. You don't hold a video game disc in your hand while playing. It's bascially just a data storage but the actual experience is the same. You couldn't say the same for books. While the content is the same, the usability and the feeling while experiencing it can be different.

And for D:OS: my local Gamespot store doesn't even sell the game in discs here in Germany. At least I haven't seen a single copy so far.

If I remember correctly Swen himself stated that only about 10-15% of their sales are generated by physical versions. That is not dead, but it's also far from being alive and striving...

That's true. I can only add that I believe as soon as convenient service for printing your own box and burning DVD of owned (bought digitally) game pops out boxed versions are dead for good, as those wanting it would be able to get their shiny boxez - and even more to that - customized from let's say a default template which could be provided by game dev/publisher. Now it's too much of a hassle for many and it's kinda unprofessional way of doing it. That's at least how I feel about it.

Actually, the scenario I gave is more or less how piracy would play out IF it were completely accepted by everyone. No games would be sold, everything would just be distributed for free. Sounds great, until you realize no one would ever develop a game again because it would be worthless.

But that aside...let me ask another question.

If I, honest consumer, have to pay for a game, then why is it okay for you or someone else to take it for free? What right do you have to not pay for things like the rest of us?

Because you know what? I realize how the system works. If enough people steal stuff, do you know who winds up paying for it? ME.

Prices will raise to deal with lost revenues due to piracy. And in the end, the CONSUMER pays. Oh but maybe prices don't raise, maybe they just come out with things like Day 1 DLC, or charging $20 for added skins!

Anyway, I'm not going to say that companies aren't greedy and some of them wouldn't do this anyway. But I do think that at least SOME revenue is lost to piracy, and I know that I am the one who will wind up subsidizing said pirates experience.

I don't think that piracy is the great Satan that some companies would make it out to be, but it's also STILL (morally) stealing. And it's not a victimless crime.

Sorryyyy - mussst tyyyype sllllowerrrr...
Well, back in the early days (1970s-1990s), it was accepted by almost everyone. In fact, unauthorised copying (swapping disks, picking up copies at a flea market/car boot sale or whatever) was the major distribution channel. Some of that converted to sales (people wanting the proper manual or in-game extras) and that was enough for companies to grow and prosper.

So I don't accept your vision as being a credible scenario simply because there are enough people decent enough to want to do the right thing - as long as companies don't put these people off (with poor products, customer service or DRM) then they should be able to prosper regardless of filesharing or other "third party" channels.
I do think you're getting the wrong end of the stick here - I paid for D:OS (and since I backed it on KS at a high pledge level, I likely paid more than most) and I don't condone unauthorised duplication.

However it isn't theft and people linking the two (and the one lamebrain who tried to bracket it with rape or murder) are not only exaggerating its impact, but also underrating the suffering of theft victims (the emotional impact of losing a cherished item plus the psychological impact of any related assault).
I don't think you understand how the system works at all, because "piracy" has resulted in lower prices so far. Check what discounts Steam offers to Russian purchasers. For contrast, look at the (almost piracy-free) console market - have they been rewarded with lower prices? And this isn't new - ZX Spectrum games were cheaper than their BBC Micro eqivalents, a Commodore 64 game cost less than the same product for an Apple II, Atari ST owners saw lower prices than Amiga users - who in turn had cheaper prices than the (then markedly inferior graphics-wise) IBM PC.

The reason? Prices are set by publishers, who make a judgment call as to what they think the market will bear. A low "piracy" rate therefore translates to a higher price in the absence of other factors. Now however we have Steam's 80-90% sales, the pay-what-you-want bundles and a larger number of budget priced indies, free games and free mods to extend many existing games). So these are likely to push AAA prices down, even if perceptions of piracy don't.