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i agree with thread starter... Larian must divide the enemies drop / treasure chest that give us random trasure and give fixed treasure. Or maybe the bigger / rare chest give us better loot, and not the crap.

This game's enemies is not respawnable, so it's suck to feel underpower because you are not very lucky @obtain random item...

if this prob solved by just reload game until find some valuable.. WHAT is the point make us can't grind enemy?? truthfully, this game only give me a choice of being a thief for money.. that totally suck

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I just registered to agree with the thread starter.

I've been thoroughly enjoying the game, the turn based combat, the detailed environment, the interesting story. It all takes me back to hundreds of hours playing Ultima VII and the BG games. DOS has been my favourite game from 2014 by a long margin.

However as someone who has practically worn out my F8 key playing the game so far, the one thing I've actively disliked is the random loot system. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread: random loot is fine in a game with respawning encounters, as you can keep refarming bosses until you get loot that you need. When encounters are fixed, it only makes sense to have fixed loot as well, at least for key items for characters.

Im at the point now with my lvl 10 party that I feel like I have seen most of the itemisation combos, so loot has become boring.

One of the things I really liked in the BG games were all the unique bits of gear, along with the little story description for them. I appreciate that Larian's time and resources are limited, but I found that unique gear really added to the depth of the gameworld.

I would also strongly agree with the guy who said that fixed loot improves replayability. When I know what loot drops where, then I often play through a game again intending to minmax another type of character build by collecting the best gear at the optimum time. As the game currently stands, I just get to look forward to mashing the F8 key until I get some non-junk item drops that fit my character build.

Anyway, I realise its probably too late to do anything about it now, but hopefully its something that can be incorporated into the next game!

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Originally Posted by Minmaxer

However as someone who has practically worn out my F8 key playing the game so far, the one thing I've actively disliked is the random loot system. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread: random loot is fine in a game with respawning encounters, as you can keep refarming bosses until you get loot that you need. When encounters are fixed, it only makes sense to have fixed loot as well, at least for key items for characters.


You mean like in MMORPGs? Completely different systems, with different purposes and goals.


Originally Posted by Minmaxer

Im at the point now with my lvl 10 party that I feel like I have seen most of the itemisation combos, so loot has become boring.

One of the things I really liked in the BG games were all the unique bits of gear, along with the little story description for them. I appreciate that Larian's time and resources are limited, but I found that unique gear really added to the depth of the gameworld.


There is unique gear in the game world. You can even craft some interesting items.

Originally Posted by Minmaxer

I would also strongly agree with the guy who said that fixed loot improves replayability. When I know what loot drops where, then I often play through a game again intending to minmax another type of character build by collecting the best gear at the optimum time. As the game currently stands, I just get to look forward to mashing the F8 key until I get some non-junk item drops that fit my character build.



Well, this one has arguments on both sides. At this point, this is a "taste" argument and considering this is Larians style... well /shrug



Originally Posted by Minmaxer

Anyway, I realise its probably too late to do anything about it now, but hopefully its something that can be incorporated into the next game!


You never know, they may dabble in different things in the future, or... they may continue to use this system as they have through every other game of this nature. In the end, there are people who do like this type of system, so as I said, it is a matter of taste.

Last edited by Tanist; 14/07/14 05:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tanist
You never know, they may dabble in different things in the future, or... they may continue to use this system as they have through every other game of this nature. In the end, there are people who do like this type of system, so as I said, it is a matter of taste.


I sure hope they try for a different loot system next time. I frequently run across so many comments criticizing the randomness of the loot system while visiting different links turned up by google-search (while looking for some unrelated Divinity topics). Many claiming that it is D:OS's largest flaw. I've run into very few praising the random loot system outside of here.

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Originally Posted by Tanist

You mean like in MMORPGs? Completely different systems, with different purposes and goals.

Yes, random loot is fine for an rpg where you can repeatedly farm content. It makes no sense in a fixed, non respawning rpg.

Originally Posted by Tanist

There is unique gear in the game world. You can even craft some interesting items.

Its not the same. BG had hundreds of unique magic items with background stories. The crafting is also not comparable at all. BG and Ultima VII allowed you to craft far more interesting equipment.

Originally Posted by Tanist

Well, this one has arguments on both sides. At this point, this is a "taste" argument and considering this is Larians style... well /shrug

I havent heard a convincing argument for random loot yet. I'm not sure why any player would prefer it at this point.

Originally Posted by Tanist

they may continue to use this system as they have through every other game of this nature.

It's cheaper and easier to use the random loot method they currently use, so I can understand why they continue to use it. Hopefully they will make enough money from this game to be able to consider slightly more time intensive, but superior loot distribution in future games.

Last edited by Minmaxer; 14/07/14 07:52 PM.
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I really praise them for completing such a fantastic game, but loot system seams like vanilla Diablo 3, just a avalanche of mostly useless items. It can surely be improved.
For me, ideal system was implemented in Divinity 2: Dragon Knight Saga. Drop of some items was fixed (items from Mindread or set items), otherwise it was pretty random. Most pleasant surprise in Divinity 2 was actually some kind of endgame content (Flying Fortresses), where you can get strong set gear with fixed stats. That planed but canceled "Lair beneath Phantom Forest" could fit this role of endgame nicely.
Maybe we can get some improvements with mods some day.

Last edited by Turm; 14/07/14 08:54 PM.
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Originally Posted by Minmaxer

Yes, random loot is fine for an rpg where you can repeatedly farm content. It makes no sense in a fixed, non respawning rpg.

I havent heard a convincing argument for random loot yet. I'm not sure why any player would prefer it at this point.


I don't think you will. I haven't heard any convincing arguments as to why carrot cake is better than chocolate and I don't think I ever will because I really don't like carrot cake.

I like the random loot. I like the mystery of what I might get on any given play through. I enjoy the fact that chance determines my rewards. It is also nice to know that on a given encounter I don't have to worry that the item is guaranteed to be useless for my party as the randomness means I can have the possibility of getting an item I desire. Now with a static placed loot, as you even pointed out, you know what to expect and so since you know what items you are going to get, well... why bother with that encounter?

Point is, this is a subjective issue, not an objective one. /shrug

Originally Posted by Minmaxer

Its not the same. BG had hundreds of unique magic items with background stories. The crafting is also not comparable at all. BG and Ultima VII allowed you to craft far more interesting equipment.


That isn't an argument against randomness, that is an itemization quality issue and you can tweak the templates for random gear to give more variations and types, even more flashy names. As for crafting, again... just an issue of adding more of such. A random system can provide for this as well.




Originally Posted by Minmaxer

It's cheaper and easier to use the random loot method they currently use, so I can understand why they continue to use it. Hopefully they will make enough money from this game to be able to consider slightly more time intensive, but superior loot distribution in future games.


You know why they use it for a fact? Is it simply money or do they prefer it for other reasons? This system has its problems, but random systems in my opinion tend to fail because not enough attention gets put into the template algorithms. If you put a lot of attention into that, you can have all kinds of amazing and interesting gear in a random system.

So it appears that most of your objections to the system are things that really aren't specifically an issue with randomization, as much as it is the problem of the results of randomization being too generic, which as I said could be solved.

Last edited by Tanist; 14/07/14 09:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Minmaxer

It's cheaper and easier to use the random loot method they currently use, so I can understand why they continue to use it. Hopefully they will make enough money from this game to be able to consider slightly more time intensive, but superior loot distribution in future games.

You know why they use it for a fact? Is it simply money or do they prefer it for other reasons? This system has its problems, but random systems in my opinion tend to fail because not enough attention gets put into the template algorithms. If you put a lot of attention into that, you can have all kinds of amazing and interesting gear in a random system.

Sure.. because that process generally makes the system a lot less random than what we currently have.

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I've got no problem with random loot to an extent. However, I do agree that there should be some semblance of progression. Optimised loot tables would go a long way to dealing with some of the issues random loot presents. For instance, I don't I found any better gear for my mage from the end of Cyseal til all the way through Heiberheim and halfway into Luculla. I still have a level 7 staff at level 15 simply for the stat boosts rather than equipping a basic staff that is closer to my level.

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This is why Dragon Age uses fixed loot/drops. This way you don't miss a thing provided you have fully explored the map.

It is a huge work but I think Larian needs to make efforts to re-allocate loots.

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Originally Posted by ExeterLux
I've got no problem with random loot to an extent. However, I do agree that there should be some semblance of progression. Optimised loot tables would go a long way to dealing with some of the issues random loot presents. For instance, I don't I found any better gear for my mage from the end of Cyseal til all the way through Heiberheim and halfway into Luculla. I still have a level 7 staff at level 15 simply for the stat boosts rather than equipping a basic staff that is closer to my level.


Actually, that's the beauty with mages, you can get away with minimal loot. You can even challenge yourself and play them naked wink

The issue is that staves don't have many options going for them. Orange staves come with 15% chance to blind, etc. and casters usually aren't wanding things later into the game. A blue staff with +2 int is infinitely more useful than an orange wand with 20% chance to chill on hit.

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Originally Posted by lmyyyks
This is why Dragon Age uses fixed loot/drops. This way you don't miss a thing provided you have fully explored the map.

It is a huge work but I think Larian needs to make efforts to re-allocate loots.



Not everyone thinks Dragon Age was a good RPG. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Songbird
Originally Posted by ExeterLux
I've got no problem with random loot to an extent. However, I do agree that there should be some semblance of progression. Optimised loot tables would go a long way to dealing with some of the issues random loot presents. For instance, I don't I found any better gear for my mage from the end of Cyseal til all the way through Heiberheim and halfway into Luculla. I still have a level 7 staff at level 15 simply for the stat boosts rather than equipping a basic staff that is closer to my level.


Actually, that's the beauty with mages, you can get away with minimal loot. You can even challenge yourself and play them naked wink

The issue is that staves don't have many options going for them. Orange staves come with 15% chance to blind, etc. and casters usually aren't wanding things later into the game. A blue staff with +2 int is infinitely more useful than an orange wand with 20% chance to chill on hit.


Maybe it is just me, but I would like them first to spend a lot more time on making the game harder (more complex AI, etc...) as those are types of things that really need a more professional touch Loot design for now can easily be handled by the modding community.

These loot arguments are kind of pointless when you can destroy encounters without too much concern to character gearing. I think that once they are able to really ramp up the difficulty, then maybe more detailed min/max arguments on loot will be warranted.

Last edited by Tanist; 15/07/14 03:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tanist

Maybe it is just me, but I would like them first to spend a lot more time on making the game harder (more complex AI, etc...) as those are types of things that really need a more professional touch Loot design for now can easily be handled by the modding community.

These loot arguments are kind of pointless when you can destroy encounters without too much concern to character gearing. I think that once they are able to really ramp up the difficulty, then maybe more detailed min/max arguments on loot will be warranted.


I can agree that. With the way my team was slaughtering everything that had the misfortune of coming across our path, I felt loot was superfluous.

Even my friend who was more retentive about savescumming stopped caring past level 18

Last edited by Songbird; 15/07/14 04:03 PM.
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I'm not sure I agree with the OP - I think randomized loot can be a good way to go. The problem is that in D:OS it's completely broken:

- no cloth accessories (bracers, boots, helmets) appear past level 10 or so. And yes, I have savescummed and reloaded countless times to test this.
- "but your mages can wear leather". But the problem is that the randomised stats somehow fall down at this point, and you rarely (never?) find leather with +INT. And why does leather armor not have a stat requirement like metal anyway?
- Following on from the above, why do Sarongs have an INT requirement? Past level 5 or so a specialist Warrior or Rogue can't wear them.
- the random stats are far too random. I understand the game encourages unique builds, but metal armor with +Sneaking and cloth with +STR is catering far too much to these fringe builds and leaves specialists out in the cold. Some balancing of stats between specialist and fringe builds would be ideal.
- in contrast to the random stats, the weighting of item types is completely screwed up. In my testing the percentage of chest pieces was far too high; something like 70% of the items in chests were chest armor (no pun intended), and sometimes 3 of 4 items were chest armor.
- some areas have loot levels far below their mob level (e.g. Hiberheim) EDIT: just found a chest past a puzzle in Phantom Forest with lvl5 gear :s
- the temptation to savescum (saving before opening chests or talking to new vendors and then reloading to refresh stock) should not be there. As someone suggested before, loading the items for an area as you enter would be ideal.
- the crafting system doesn't make up for any of the above. Some crafted items can be OK armor-wise but they won't have the stats of a similar level green or above. The jewelry is a joke, even with the best ingredients (which you don't get until halfway through the game) you can't make items that are comparable to early-game drops. Also there are massive holes in the system - you can make chests and boots but not bracers or helms? Why?

Last edited by Mordelombra; 15/07/14 07:30 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mordelombra

- the temptation to savescum (saving before opening chests or talking to new vendors and then reloading to refresh stock) should not be there. As someone suggested before, loading the items for an area as you enter would be ideal.

Yeah, I a developer has created a situation where players are encouraged to reload a saved game over and over again after checking a container or vendor, at that point they've pretty much failed the player on some level.

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I am not really a big fan of the randomized system either. I am now level 19 and have yet to find any Bracers for my mages. There was literally nothing stat wise that benefited my mages this entire time. In addition I have yet to find any Bracers that have +Strength on them (where I desperately need 1 more strength) But I have countless with + Dexterity.


Does anyone know any way or any bracer/boot/helm item that can give +1 strengh somehow. Or if there are any rings that give +strength. All I ever get is +loremaster rings frown

I really need just 1+ strength for my Mage (its a battle mage, I want to wear a new plate armor that is Ludicrously good +2int +2speed +40ish in all res and 68 armor.) But I just need 14 strength for it and I have just 13 with all my gear (already have girdle, weapon amulet with strength)

But so far I have not found anything else that would give me +strength frown

Last edited by Eldiora; 15/07/14 10:30 PM.
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Larian chose the lazy route with this. Random loot with finite mobs... who was the fucking brilliant genius who decided this was OK?

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I'm gonna go with the same one that decided NOT to make Diablo IV but instead something reminiscent of proper RPG's like the IE games (Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment) and of course Ultima.

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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter
I'm gonna go with the same one that decided NOT to make Diablo IV but instead something reminiscent of proper RPG's like the IE games (Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment) and of course Ultima.


Thanks, Captain Obvious.

Got any other Brain Busters for us?

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