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Originally Posted by Maphyr
Thanks, Captain Obvious.


Glad to be of assistance!
*Flies off to save another day*

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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter
I'm gonna go with the same one that decided NOT to make Diablo IV but instead something reminiscent of proper RPG's like the IE games (Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment) and of course Ultima.


I fail to see how using random loot is STICKING IT TO DIABLO. You know, since all Diablo games use random loot.

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I hated opening the runed chest in Boreals Vault... ONLY TO FIND SOME CRAPPY BLUES.


That thing should have had a unique weapon or something inside... Considering I had just sacrificed a freaking (EPIC WEAPON) that had epic stats to save (ARGHBLARG)

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There should be some risk/reward placed in the game.

When I beat a difficult boss, I want to be rewarded with good loot and not a plethora of trash drops.
I understand why Larian went with randomized loot though:
It's much less work.

Balancing a game is a horribly difficult task and eats a lot of resources you could've put into more interesting parts of the game.

The rest of the game is great though, I doubt that Larian is good at balancing though, which is already shown by some of those "panic changes" like what they did to weather the storm, crowd control and rage.

In my opinion they should first and foremost take care of "useless" skills and talents and make them useful and fun, then worry about nerfing/buffing stuff that makes the game less challenging.
The whole resistance-to-cc-buffing will just lead to more skills being "useless".

Having 200 spells in the game is pointless when only 20 of them are actually useful.

I feel like the underlying problem with rage is the insane damage 2 handed fighters deal in conjunction with life leech and the easily reached resistance cap, making you invulnerable to damage while dealing tons of damage.

If anything life leech needs to be nerfed hard into what it should be, which is a small supportive heal that's not anywhere close to a "magical" heal, that also requires you to attack the enemy instead of getting attacked.

Call it blood lust of bloodbath and let it only be triggered by enemy blood, please.

Also put a cap to resistances that isn't 100 percent.
75 percent should be plenty and ensures that elemental attacks don't get useless.
Then again you run into the problem of some skills actually hurting your character and becoming useless.

I think 100 percent elemental resistance hurts the game a lot though.

Also 2 handed damage is batshit insane at the moment. Can't compare to rogue and archer damage output though since I haven't played them yet.
1 handed damage is a joke though. Barely tickles and with the cc nerf my sword and board fighter becomes a totally superfluous wuss.

Last edited by ArtVandelay; 16/07/14 01:32 AM.

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Originally Posted by ArtVandelay
There should be some risk/reward placed in the game.

When I beat a difficult boss, I want to be rewarded with good loot and not a plethora of trash drops.
I understand why Larian went with randomized loot though:
It's much less work.

Balancing a game is a horribly difficult task and eats a lot of resources you could've put into more interesting parts of the game.


Agreed. However the problem isn't necessarily randomized loot: personally, I think a random loot system can work as long as the weightings are done correctly, so that equal numbers of each type of item drop (and not 90% jewellery and chest pieces). The random stats should be more geared towards specialised builds (metal armor with +STR, cloth with +INT, leather with +DEX) rather than the completely random current system - players can always use jewellery to add the stats their armor lacks. Also, some combinations just shouldn't be in the game (metal boots with +Sneaking? GTFO).

Originally Posted by ArtVandelay
Having 200 spells in the game is pointless when only 20 of them are actually useful.


Not sure I agree with you here. I'm playing with both a Geo/Pyro and an Aero/Hydro combination and even though both of them have 3 full skill bars I wish I had more space. If anything, there's too much choice; I can win fights using any number of combinations of spells, and I'm always finding situations in which I need a spell I wouldn't normally use in a fight. Sure, there are some that are very niche - e.g. I never use Farsight, as it seems too much work to be constantly casting it and I'd rather rely on my main character having high PER in the first place.

Originally Posted by ArtVandelay
Also put a cap to resistances that isn't 100 percent. 75 percent should be plenty and ensures that elemental attacks don't get useless. Then again you run into the problem of some skills actually hurting your character and becoming useless.

I think 100 percent elemental resistance hurts the game a lot though.


100% agreed. My main can now get healed by walking in lava with 125% fire res, that's just stupid.

Originally Posted by ArtVandelay
Also 2 handed damage is batshit insane at the moment. Can't compare to rogue and archer damage output though since I haven't played them yet.
1 handed damage is a joke though. Barely tickles and with the cc nerf my sword and board fighter becomes a totally superfluous wuss.


My Rogue main does pretty well with backstab, and Dagger's Drawn is as OP as Flurry. A sword and board fighter isn't there to do damage though, he's there to soak it up. With resistances as they are however I don't see the need for a tank, I've been using Madora as my front-line and she's been fine. I never use Rage though so she's a good balance of tank and spank.

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On my side i think the loot system is fine, but i would like to see more different suffixes to items.

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Originally Posted by Tuco

And then you act surprised and almost outraged when I point how unpleasant can be to interact with you.
And please, let me point that being so verbose and long-winded in making vacuous remarks doesn't make them more grounded in reality.

I.E.
"Oh oh oh, see? Verbiage is the key, sarcastic depreciation, blah blah blah".
Dude, I just pointed I don't care what they wanted to do, I care about the fact I don't think it worked.
And I spent several posts arguing more in detail WHY I think this system "trivializes itemization". Just because you failed to acknowledge them it doesn't mean I must be committed to work full time to offer you a recap at every single reply.

You also didn't make "very detailed arguments" in favour of this system as you are claiming. You ranted, in your usual long-winded way, of tangent arguments like different games and emerging gameplay that hardly relate to the loot system.



You didn't really use your free credit hour. To have available such a detailed, exhaustive breakdown of your writing and completely ignore every point suggests an underlying pathology. I'm sorry for your cognitive state at this juncture. Enjoy your life of rigid linear thinking and self-assured cognitive dissonance. It makes me very sad knowing you have no way to help yourself right now. Good luck.




Last edited by erra; 16/07/14 01:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mordelombra
My Rogue main does pretty well with backstab, and Dagger's Drawn is as OP as Flurry. A sword and board fighter isn't there to do damage though, he's there to soak it up. With resistances as they are however I don't see the need for a tank, I've been using Madora as my front-line and she's been fine. I never use Rage though so she's a good balance of tank and spank.


Flurry is not even remotely the reason twohanders are better than daggers, and daggers drawn isn't as good as Flurry.

Flurry is super situational and is there basically just for bosses who have absurd health and don't die to the absurd Man-at-Arms AoE (Because being able to crit basically everything on the screen for 2k isn't overpowered amirite). Those bosses also tend to only lose 20~30% of their health to a rage Flurry.

Now that's where daggers shine. Dagger backstabs have the highest damage per AP of all the normal attacks. Daggers Drawn would be good if it could backstab, but it can't so it's ultimately weaker than 4 backstabs. The problem is that rogues don't have access to ridiculous AoE attacks so they're really only good at taking out single targets.

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Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by lmyyyks
This is why Dragon Age uses fixed loot/drops. This way you don't miss a thing provided you have fully explored the map.

It is a huge work but I think Larian needs to make efforts to re-allocate loots.



Not everyone thinks Dragon Age was a good RPG. /shrug

My point is that this game has limited enemies/loot sources while applying a random loot system. So it is very possible after you have looted every single item there is still something offered by the game that you dearly want but you simply aren't lucky enough to have it.

You may not go for another playthrough just to get certain items and there is no guarantee that you will get them.

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Originally Posted by lmyyyks

You may not go for another playthrough just to get certain items and there is no guarantee that you will get them.


That's the beauty of the random system though. On one playthrough, I got tons of loremaster stuff, so I never had to sink more than 1 point into loremaster.

On the next playthrough, I didn't see a loremaster item until lvl 12. I had to sink points into loremaster and had to adapt my ability setup with the change.

You don't need a set of legendary items to beat game.

I don't want loot to become an itinerary list of "OK, i'm level 6 now, time to go to [location x] now to get my [level 6 sword of awesomeness]."

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The game is incredible as i been playing it nonstop, the loot however...is just beyond bad. I absolutely hate the loot in this game, like i said they did so good with so much of this game but the loot system needed more TLC.

I really hope Pillars of Eternity nailed a better loot system than this.

I freaking hate random loot in chests, i can not help myself to keep trying for new loot. I just want the chest to pre determined from the very start of the game, and ill accept whatever is in there. I cant stand when games give me that door to save before the final blow of a boss and try for loot or save in front of chests. I just dont like that mechanic as im to weak to not abuse it.

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Originally Posted by lmyyyks
You may not go for another playthrough just to get certain items and there is no guarantee that you will get them.


Like Songbird, that's a major pro instead of con to me... smirk

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Although it might be very data intensive, if they could have all the treasure for each "act" generated as soon as you enter it then you'd be able to prevent save-loot-reload. To compensate for the locked in nature, they could make various types of chest have varying loot. Ornate chests always having at least a green item, for instance. Sure, some people could go in and read the file where chest contents are stored and know where to get the best items or change the information in it to get better loot, but at that point they're messing with their own playthrough and not hurting anyone else. It's possible a text doc with a name for chest locations and abbreviated text for contents like "OrnateChest_UpperChurch: Ring_green, Sarong_blue;". I dunno, just throwing it out there.

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I love the game, but I strongly dislike the level scaled and randomized loot system.

I wish it had a loot system like in Baldur's Gate or Fallout and had a lot more hand placed loot. This Diablo style loot system is really starting to get annoying, 95% of everything you find is just randomized and useless vendor trash.

Also, the legendary items at the beginning of the game are much less powerful than rare/magical items late game. That is a great immersion breaker and doesn't make any darn sense.

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Originally Posted by Eldiora
I am not really a big fan of the randomized system either. I am now level 19 and have yet to find any Bracers for my mages. There was literally nothing stat wise that benefited my mages this entire time. In addition I have yet to find any Bracers that have +Strength on them (where I desperately need 1 more strength) But I have countless with + Dexterity.


Does anyone know any way or any bracer/boot/helm item that can give +1 strengh somehow. Or if there are any rings that give +strength. All I ever get is +loremaster rings frown

I really need just 1+ strength for my Mage (its a battle mage, I want to wear a new plate armor that is Ludicrously good +2int +2speed +40ish in all res and 68 armor.) But I just need 14 strength for it and I have just 13 with all my gear (already have girdle, weapon amulet with strength)

But so far I have not found anything else that would give me +strength frown


Hey mate, I could be wrong but I don't think +1 STR bracers are possible. I've noticed certain stats only spawn on certain slots - like Bartering only appears on amulets and boots, Blacksmithing and Crafting only appear on belt and bracers etc. I believe you can only get +1 STR on chest, amulet or belt. Have you already used the +1 stat point book from the vendor in your homestead? Maybe thats the answer for you, or just use your next stat point level up?

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Originally Posted by Savatage79
The game is incredible as i been playing it nonstop, the loot however...is just beyond bad. I absolutely hate the loot in this game, like i said they did so good with so much of this game but the loot system needed more TLC.

I really hope Pillars of Eternity nailed a better loot system than this.

I freaking hate random loot in chests, i can not help myself to keep trying for new loot. I just want the chest to pre determined from the very start of the game, and ill accept whatever is in there. I cant stand when games give me that door to save before the final blow of a boss and try for loot or save in front of chests. I just dont like that mechanic as im to weak to not abuse it.


Haha, I know how you feel man - at least you admit it.. Guys like us would prefer the temptation to just not be there, we would be fine without it - but if its there we are too weak not to reload.. The problem is its unfair of us to request a change in the system because of this - requesting fixed loot on playthrough / area load will impact people who don't want it of course.. Difficult to find the proper balance in all this I believe.. Perhaps a mixture of random and fixed loot as was suggested earlier in this thread.. like certain bosses eg Loic will maybe always drop a caster item - but not a fixed item, it could be a random legendary robe or staff - etc.

As for me I reloaded loot throughout my first playthrough but at around lvl 15 with cherry picked loot on all my chars I thought.. why am I doing this to myself again and ruining such an amazing game.. So I have started over with two lone wolves - no reloading loot..

I thought about a compromise where only on big named bosses if I don't get a yellow / legendary, I reload until at least one yellow drops but then stop - even if its a bow or something totally useless for either of my chars. That way its like the boss dropped a guaranteed quality loot for the effort, but still randomized - ie. I didn't totally savescum until it was the exact item -> slot -> stats I needed.

But then I thought who am I kidding, half cheating is still cheating haha.. So hopefully my willpower holds out until them balanced loot mods start coming out wink Gotta admit its highs and lows.. lows when you get whites and blues from that big named boss... highs when that damn vendor finally sells Strong Regenerate wink

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At first I hadn't understood the random mechanism for shops, I quoted it for chests through some reload, but from shops it wasn't clear until I made a wrong click stealing something instead of just moving the party. Loaded back and realized all the nice items I just bought in shop had disappeared.

It felt frustrating and then I started some tedious save scumming from shops. Later I gave up but for skills books. It's just wrong that they are so random when they are closely linked to characters building. That game just doesn't have the random diversity to justify it.

I don't like the Diablo like loot system (and share preferences of OP) but I feel that players like me and OP are in a small minority nowadays. I don't like the save scumming but I bet some players appreciate have a tool to cancel a bad random. But the random for skills books is purely wrong.

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Hi all!

Being a fan of the old rpg's like BG2, Torment or IWD i have always appreciated the fixed loot system and disliked most random loot systems.

With this game however, i have actually started to appreciate aspects of a random loot system. It opens up gameplay quite a bit, since you don't build your chars based on particular items you know you'll find.

HOWEVER i still do feel that certain fixed items do add a lot of value and character to looting. Now i know that the game uses unique items (which is nice, though there could be more of them and placed differently) but it's a whole different level of feeling rewarded when, after beating a difficult opponent, you find an item that is actually related to the opponent you just beat. maybe even with a backstory...

so my opinion is that the random loot system is in principal ok for this game, but it should be spiced up by having fixed items with a meaning placed in certain places, where really tough opponents are encountered.

thanks for reading,

chwat


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Random loot is fine (imho) but in this particular game I find it poorly implemented (esp when compared to Larian earlier works). As i commented in other threads; your better off shopping in the stores and crafting items than searching the world for secrets and surviving in the wilds (with regards to loot; this comment only pertains to loot). Most of the time when I finish a hard fight; and examine the drop loot or open the majestic chest (some hidden); there is utter feeling of why did i bother with the loot it is worthles.

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I'm somewhat of a similar opion... for EACH battle I get now, there's a lootbox next to it.
Seriously?

I understand you want to reward players, but it's a bit overkill to place a rewardbox near each opponent group, like random wolves... smirk

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