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It was mentioned in the first 'patch' notes that the teller of secrets will now only sell one of each book.

But apparently this hasn't been correctly implemented yet... the whole thing seems a bit cheaty and obviously isn't intended by the devs.

Still, some like to push their PCs to superhuman limits

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Originally Posted by Whysper
It was mentioned in the first 'patch' notes that the teller of secrets will now only sell one of each book.

But apparently this hasn't been correctly implemented yet... the whole thing seems a bit cheaty and obviously isn't intended by the devs.

Still, some like to push their PCs to superhuman limits


I would challenge the Dev's to build a perceptive rogue/mage with enough AP and HP to be effective in combat (hard difficulty). Without using books this is largely impossible unless you get massive RNG luck or savescum chests for gear.

I need 4 or 5 Attribute books for my character. Zero to one ability books. This doesn't feel "cheaty" at all to me. It's simply me trying to build the lead character I like to play.


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Originally Posted by Vedros
I would challenge the Dev's to build a perceptive rogue/mage with enough AP and HP to be effective in combat (hard difficulty). Without using books this is largely impossible unless you get massive RNG luck or savescum chests for gear.
Focusing on three things is asking for trouble, even with the books. Try to narrow it down to two, unless you just like playing a Jack-Of-All-Trades / Master-Of-None.

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Originally Posted by Incendax
Originally Posted by Vedros
I would challenge the Dev's to build a perceptive rogue/mage with enough AP and HP to be effective in combat (hard difficulty). Without using books this is largely impossible unless you get massive RNG luck or savescum chests for gear.
Focusing on three things is asking for trouble, even with the books. Try to narrow it down to two, unless you just like playing a Jack-Of-All-Trades / Master-Of-None.


I think you might have missed the point I was making. I'm fully aware of the limitations in DOS. That's the point. A traditional staple class from AD&D cannot be made without these books. It was never a jack of all trades class. It was more like using magic for utility and augmentation which made the class strong and versatile.


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Originally Posted by Vedros
I think you might have missed the point I was making. I'm fully aware of the limitations in DOS. That's the point. A traditional staple class from AD&D cannot be made without these books. It was never a jack of all trades class. It was more like using magic for utility and augmentation which made the class strong and versatile.
I did not miss your point, it was just a really weak point. You absolutely can make that traditional staple class from AD&D without those books, and if you want to post up your build we can help you optimize it to be more effective in this game. smile

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Originally Posted by Incendax
Originally Posted by Vedros
I think you might have missed the point I was making. I'm fully aware of the limitations in DOS. That's the point. A traditional staple class from AD&D cannot be made without these books. It was never a jack of all trades class. It was more like using magic for utility and augmentation which made the class strong and versatile.
I did not miss your point, it was just a really weak point. You absolutely can make that traditional staple class from AD&D without those books, and if you want to post up your build we can help you optimize it to be more effective in this game. smile


No it's not a weak point and I don't need help with anything! I'm simply saying the books refreshing aren't necessarily a bad thing! Context is your friend.

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Originally Posted by Vedros
No it's not a weak point and I don't need help with anything! I'm simply saying the books refreshing aren't necessarily a bad thing! Context is your friend.
You also challenged the devs to make a class from AD&D and claimed it was largely impossible without using books. I am not making a moral statement about the right or wrong of using the books, only contesting your claim.

Last edited by Incendax; 18/07/14 05:56 PM.
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You could probably have only half of the AP/AT points available now, and still it would be possible to win the game with any class. Playing solo. D:OS is easy. There are thousands of ways, to make your char overpowered...

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Originally Posted by Incendax
Originally Posted by Vedros
No it's not a weak point and I don't need help with anything! I'm simply saying the books refreshing aren't necessarily a bad thing! Context is your friend.
You also challenged the devs to make a class from AD&D and claimed it was largely impossible without using books. I am not making a moral statement about the right or wrong of using the books, only contesting your claim.


That's fine but you haven't actually contested anything.

It doesn't matter anyway. I doubt our spat is interesting to anyone here.

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Originally Posted by lmyyyks
Great sharing, I share my bit as well.
It is possible you buy those books twice per level (at least on low levels <10)

Restocking
==========

As soon as you enter Cyseal, go straight to recruit Madora and Jahan. They will be at lv 3. By the time I did that when I was still level 2 and there was a XP gap between them and my hunters of around 3000 EXP. If you skip all the exp thing at the beginning (tutorial cave, exploration exp, Ishmashell) you should have an even larger gap, giving more room to manage your EXP gain and separate levelling. So after the Teller is unlocked, you can restock every time using Madora/Jahan first then your hunters, offering 4 books per level, provided you have the money.

Are you sure this actually works? I've never been able to get a vendor to restock with a level difference like that. It seems to check character level on barter, and only restocks if it's greater than current item level on the vendor. Having a companion check and buy the stat books at level 12 and immediately checking with lvl 11 player character (having not previously purchased any stat books at level 11) does not result in a respawn, at least on the current steam version. Are you using GOG / an older patch?

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Can you easily generate the money for each level to get the books?
I opened the secret seller at lvl4 and bought my first pair of books and working on the second one now. I got bartering boots and amulet and egoistical trait for 3 bartering but it is still a hefty 19K gold (I think) and once all paintings are sold, it will be challenging to reach that with mobs loots.

I shall see though.

Thanks for the tips and I was also curious about crafting, cooking transforming process and how to make money out of that.

It might be great to make a 3 gold fish into a 50 gold dish (I am assigning random numbers) but you cannot really get so many ingredients or do you have a good set up for that and how much money would you make doing so. If it is not at least a few thousands gold, it seems like a tedious process.

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Originally Posted by Deste
Can you easily generate the money for each level to get the books?
No, it's not easy. It is, however, possible.

Here is my understanding of how buying/selling works. The numbers are not exact. List value = value listed on the item while glancing at it in your inventory.

Selling stuff
40% of base value as a base
10% increase per point of Bartering
0.5% increase per 5 points point of Attitude (which can be negative for a decrease)
5 Bartering + 100 Attitude (max) = Sell stuff at list value

Buying stuff
250% of base value as base
20% decrease per point of Bartering
2.5% decrease per 5 points of Attitude (again, can be negative)
5 Bartering + 100 Attitude = Buy stuff at list value

Attitude is based on previous interactions with the character, your Charisma (5 per point), and your Reputation (also 5 per point). There are also Talents which reduce Attitude, so do not have your Know-it-all dealing with merchants.

As you can see, Bartering is huge. The best bet is to have a character who is skilled in both Bartering and Charisma, since the abilities synergize very well.

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 19/07/14 12:15 PM.
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I read about the selling buying formula and you could save yourself a bunch of money with high bartering but it sort of gimp a character so I am sticking with bartering lvl3.

I bought the second round of book, let's see if I can raise money for the next ones. I still have silverglen to loot I guess and a few useless uniques to discard.

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I recommend 2 hard points in Bartering and 1 in Charisma, without Politician, on a main character. This is 4 ability points, which is fairly affordable and not much of a gimping.

Eventually, you'll have Egotistical and Considerate traits, that's bumped to 3/2. Add an amulet and boots with +1 Bartering each, 5/2. Add crafted Tooth rings and the Smelly Panties, and that's 5/5. So at the end of the day you'll have 5 ranks in each without needing to spend more points.

I do recommend, however, getting that 2 Bartering and 1 Charisma as soon as possible. Generally, having the 2 in Bartering straightaway, during character creation itself, is the right move, with the point in Charisma nabbed during the levelup from 1 to 2. You'll even want to assemble the tooth jewelry as quickly as you can, as it saves you gold from the moment you acquire it.

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 19/07/14 01:39 PM.
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If you're goind down this path then the investment in Bartering + Charisma (and grabbing politician) is certainly worth while.

For the few points you "give up" you're gaining many more.

I also highly advise gifting money to the NPC. With a reputation of 100, and a few pieces of bartering gear, you'll pay face value AND be able to sell items to get your original investment back.

I did this (though unlocked @ lvl 6 because I chose a different path) and have had no money issues. At all. Every level I have purchsed these books and have an inventory full of gear waiting to level up so my vendors will restock their gold and I can unload said gear.

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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Originally Posted by Deste
Can you easily generate the money for each level to get the books?
No, it's not easy. It is, however, possible.
ScrotieMcB is absolutely correct. It is completely possible but involves raising bartering, robbing Cyseal blind, or doing both. What I did in my last game was raise Bartering and Charisma to Base 3 + traits and panties. I found enough Barter items that I had 7/5. I then sold everything in exchange for the books, and had plenty of paintings and golden cups left over for next level.

After I earned 200,000+ gold around level 10, I respecced and got rid of bartering opa

Last edited by Incendax; 21/07/14 05:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Theodore
Are you sure this actually works? I've never been able to get a vendor to restock with a level difference like that. It seems to check character level on barter, and only restocks if it's greater than current item level on the vendor. Having a companion check and buy the stat books at level 12 and immediately checking with lvl 11 player character (having not previously purchased any stat books at level 11) does not result in a respawn, at least on the current steam version. Are you using GOG / an older patch?

It works, at least for my case.

Lets say the four members are all at lv 10 and have just bought the books, so now the Teller have no books.
Given Madora/Jahan have a significant EXP gap with the hunters that they can level up to lv11 first, and now Madora/Jahan are at lv 11 and hunters at lv 10. Go to the Teller. If you talk to the Teller using the hunters you will of course see no books because she has not restocked (still at lv 10), but if you use Madora/Jahan to talk to the Teller and enter the shop she will restock (becaise M/J advanced from lv 10 to lv 11). After she has restocked you can use whoever has the most bargaining power to buy stuff. And maybe you should use your hunters (lv 10) to talk to the Teller before leaving to make sure the last contact is still at lv 10.
So when your hunters has leveled up to 11. Go visit the Teller and talk to her using the hunters (advanced from lv 10 to 11), there she will restock again.

Madora and Jahan begin with at least lv 3; min XP of 8000. You should already know that they will level with the player (EXP and lv) if the hunters have EXP >8000 at the moment they join.
I skipped the tutorial dungeon and other exp stuff (Shell, waypoint, etc.) By the time I entered Cyseal My hunters were at lv 2 (EXP 3000). You will get the harbour waypoint (90 XP), and take the long route to get around the fish thief. So you can get Madora/Jahan with an EXP gap of around 5000.

You can actually create two significant EXP gap exploiting the fact that M/J only concerns the EXP of the hunters.
Let's say you recruit Jahan where your hunters are at EXP 3000
(so that EXP H: 3000, J:8000).

Go earn some EXP, e.g. 2500.
Then it will be H: 5500, J: 10500.

If you go recruit Madora this time she will still begin with 8000 because the hunters are below 8000.
Then you will have H:5500, M:8000, J:10500

At low levels (<lv12) where EXP earn per enemy is still rather low, you can manage levelling of party members carefully and restock 3 times per level.

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If you are really concerned about level exploiting, you can always kill your second character and ressurect him whenever the level gap is sufficiently wide. Having a dead partner is actually the easiest way to enter Black Cove (Unless they also have Walk in Shadows for some reason).

Last edited by Incendax; 22/07/14 12:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Deste
Can you easily generate the money for each level to get the books?
I opened the secret seller at lvl4 and bought my first pair of books and working on the second one now. I got bartering boots and amulet and egoistical trait for 3 bartering but it is still a hefty 19K gold (I think) and once all paintings are sold, it will be challenging to reach that with mobs loots.

I shall see though.

Thanks for the tips and I was also curious about crafting, cooking transforming process and how to make money out of that.

It might be great to make a 3 gold fish into a 50 gold dish (I am assigning random numbers) but you cannot really get so many ingredients or do you have a good set up for that and how much money would you make doing so. If it is not at least a few thousands gold, it seems like a tedious process.

tip about money : steal the gold plates! (inn, esmeralda, major house, I don't remember if anywhere else), they don't show up using ALT, but can be looted, they have a base value of 750, and there are 20ish of them in cyseal, that's a lot of money smile , the GOLD one ( appears yellow), not the useless white ones ( worth 1 coin) .



About "multiple leveling", if that works, you can tecnically get 8 books each level, if you sacrifice some xp on some char by virtue of being death for the purpose of delaying it's leveling up.

(or double the books in the case of double lone wolfs)

Just suicide one char on the skeletons, then build up a2kish xp difference

Last edited by ciopo; 22/07/14 02:45 PM.
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Doubling the books.

I must have miss something important, I thought that the npc refresh happened each time your character with the highest lvl reached another level.
I will test it but are you sure the seller will offer new book if the characters level separately.

Also thanks for the plate tip, I did not know that.


Edit:
I just tested it and it does not work, you do not get double the books if you level up the character individually. As I said you only get a refresh when the highest character lvl up. At least that is what happened in my dual lone wolf test.

Last edited by Deste; 22/07/14 03:19 PM.
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