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This is actually further evidence that these people don't have a fucking clue on traditional RPG hooks, boss designs, outside-in world designs (the lore is crap in this) and a balanced experience.

The game is seriously awful, but it must have a lot of people who must make it good because they spent money on it (kickstarter backers).

What they do is essentially take out things which make the player feel good, to stop players from progressing. Like the loot is totally shit in this. There is no feeling of having beaten a boss, aside from just farming XP.

Why would I not want to be a God in an RPG? In every RPG you can become uber powerful, it's the nature of the beast. In this, they make the player feel like crap all the time by buffing AI, making it heal 100 hp every turn, making it run away when you are stealthing an numerous other things.

This is not about balance it's just about shit design.

Last edited by Halpmepls; 23/07/14 06:18 AM.
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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Accessing Teller of Secrets at level 3 is a symptom of a larger problem. The larger problem is invisibility allowing you to go anywhere and do anything.


WHY IS THIS A DAMN PROBLEM?!

Ah, I forgot, because this is "on-rails." I want to have the freedom to go anywhere and do anything, I want to be able to do a Level 1 run, a speed run, a God mode run.

There is nothing in this slop-fest.

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Wait what? On both playthroughs I make it a habit straight after level up to go buy the pair of books to buff up my characters.

Are you saying we can no longer do that?! =/
Since which patch?

Last edited by Jackal2200; 23/07/14 06:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jackal2200
Wait what? On both playthroughs I make it a habit straight after level up to go buy the pair of books to buff up my characters.

Are you saying we can no longer do that?! =/
Since which patch?

Well, there are people out there that say you must not play the game in the way you enjoy it, because it destroys their gameplay. They can not control what they do and seem to have this urge to go to the teller of secrets after every level up and buy 2 books.
These people are most probably the smartest in the 'verse and know how you should play your game.
If you play otherwise you are a fraud, ,a trickster and a cheater.
I don't understand them, but this does not matter as they know by divine knowledge that, what is good for them is also good for you. And your opinion does not matter.

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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Accessing Teller of Secrets at level 3 is a symptom of a larger problem. The larger problem is invisibility allowing you to go anywhere and do anything.

I enjoy that I can do that, I really do. I like the freedom.
If you do not enjoy this mobility ... well, you are not forced to go invis and ruin your own game!

I wish they'd make a character in the starting area with the dialogue

"do you want to instantly win the game?"
"yes"
which takes you to a nice picture saying "YOU WON! All evil forces died" and shows the end game credits.
Then the wiener length compare faction can all say that they finished the game @ level 1 within 10 seconds and they are all happy.

I mean, seriously, everyone who complains about unbalanced gameplay AFTER glitching the game in their fullest knowledge that they do not play the game was more or less intended to be played ... I don't know, I can not help those players. Just weird in my opinion!

Might as well complain "pls put a CRC checker into the savegame as I just added 10kk gold with my hex editor, this is totally unbalancing the game!"

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Originally Posted by Dwarf17
I wish they'd make a character in the starting area with the dialogue

"do you want to instantly win the game?"
"yes"
which takes you to a nice picture saying "YOU WON! All evil forces died" and shows the end game credits.


Funny enough, I got a good laugh out of

the Earth totem asking if I wanted to see the end of everything, and when I chose yes, it showed me the end credits. hahaha

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Originally Posted by Dwarf17
Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Accessing Teller of Secrets at level 3 is a symptom of a larger problem. The larger problem is invisibility allowing you to go anywhere and do anything.

I enjoy that I can do that, I really do. I like the freedom.
If you do not enjoy this mobility ... well, you are not forced to go invis and ruin your own game!

I wish they'd make a character in the starting area with the dialogue

"do you want to instantly win the game?"
"yes"
which takes you to a nice picture saying "YOU WON! All evil forces died" and shows the end game credits.
Then the wiener length compare faction can all say that they finished the game @ level 1 within 10 seconds and they are all happy.

I mean, seriously, everyone who complains about unbalanced gameplay AFTER glitching the game in their fullest knowledge that they do not play the game was more or less intended to be played ... I don't know, I can not help those players. Just weird in my opinion!

Might as well complain "pls put a CRC checker into the savegame as I just added 10kk gold with my hex editor, this is totally unbalancing the game!"


This is very naive. You are either new to video games and if you're not I don't think people who make gaming a lifestyle share your sentiments.

The deal has always been to beat the machine. To beat the algos, the AI, to make it feel stupid. Video games are about the triumph of humanity, the victory of ingenuity and intuition.

All this touchy feely shit, "The experience" "The immersion" is a thing which has emerged with this narratives bullshit. It has always been about beating the game, nothing else. You min-max, you exploit the AI, you find ways to make it feel filthy.

Gaming has been my life since the 80s. I have no preference, if it exists I play it. I play it to beat it, I play it to friggin beat the system the programmers created and say "I figured it out." I don't just "Play a lil vidya, maybe just Wii-U fitness hmm."


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Ignore Halpmepls. He is just joking around and having fun. =P

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I can confirm that the seller of secrets, and all npcs are restocking on more than just hero level up. It seems you have an infinite source of stats, gold, materials, and items too choose from.

Not sure what it is. I think its passage of time in game (e.g. sheep have a timer for fleecing them). Maybe each day vendors reset? I reached her at lvl 11, and still at lvl 12 I have three sets of books.

I wonder if knowing that you could literally boost every stat to max ruins the whole min-maxing game some are playing?

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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Accessing Teller of Secrets at level 3 is a symptom of a larger problem. The larger problem is invisibility allowing you to go anywhere and do anything.


It is funny how a lot of posts in this forum is complaints about lack of freedom and other posts are about stuff being overpowered so you can do too much.

Just saying... smile

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What's with all the arguments about balancing? Seriously, I couldn't give two s***s less about what everyone thinks about balancing. Why are so many people obsessed with difficulty? You're repeating the same crap over and over needlessly when you die when in the same amount of time two or three playthroughs could be done. This is a perfect example of something that didn't need to be fixed. Don't like it? Then DON'T USE IT!! There's no what, if, ands or buts about it! If you lack self discipline and you can't play the way you want because your will is weaker than a wet paper towel then that's your personal problem that you need to deal with during your alone time. Some people have busy schedules and don't have time to bull**** repeating the same fights multiple times or waste time running around to figure out how to accommodate some missing bloody ability because there's that one point in the game were you can't do without.

Perfect example: I play with a group of magic users, I had no need for warriors(I hate melee and bows and all that)....until I ran into five mushrooms that were healed by all magic elements and bled poison....which healed them so they could only be beaten with raw strength that could deal more bashing damage than the poison they bled while taking that damage healed them. Fortunately I had one character who could summon one skeleton that could deal enough damage, so I had to have my entire party sit back and not do s*** while I kept sending in the same skeleton over and over and over again to pointlessly chip away at each mushroom and die in couple of turns.

There's absolutely no valid reason whatsoever why I shouldn't be able to have my wizards switch to some super heavy axes of stomping so I could get on with the god damn story.

Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 23/07/14 01:18 PM.
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I wonder why there aren't more of these stat boost books, and why they're all at the same place instead of hidden throughout the game.

The real "secrets" in this game i.e. loot boxes, are boring and not worth your time due to randomized loot.


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Originally Posted by Dwarf17
Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Accessing Teller of Secrets at level 3 is a symptom of a larger problem. The larger problem is invisibility allowing you to go anywhere and do anything.

I enjoy that I can do that, I really do. I like the freedom.
If you do not enjoy this mobility ... well, you are not forced to go invis and ruin your own game!
Apparently I didn't clarify enough.

I definitely like the mobility. I don't wish to convey the message that getting Teller of Tales by level 4 should be impossible (level 3 probably should be impossible, just off exploration XP), because I think it should be possible -- very key word there.

The problem, like I said originally, is how good invisibility is. You said "don't use it if it's too powerful," and that particular argument is nonsense. It should be possible (that key word again) to get Teller early and profit from it, but it should not be as easy as it currently is. It should involve far more micromanagement than it currently does, and far more worrying about getting into fights you're sure to lose.

There need to be monsters which see invisibility. Not every monster should, but there should be some, and they should be key watchdogs you'd have to manually sneak around even while invisible. Invisibility should still be good for minimizing the amount of detectors you're actually dealing with. Good spots to put these, in regards to the thread topic, would be the fire-elemental-type-thing near the Burning Legion road, and the Source Abomination in the Cove. This is just enough where you can't just coast through things on autopilot by using Walk in Shadows whenever you see a threat in the distance.

Other than that, the only real change for Teller of Tales should be that the portal in the Silverglen Chapel Cellar should not activate until you flip a switch or something in the cellar itself. It's currently far too easy to pick up 2 Blood Stones by taking the portal backwards, from Sacred Stone to the cellar. You should be absolutely required to kill or pickpocket Loic in order to access the cellar (where you do this is still up to you). It's also worth noting that the devs did not anticipate this and that the Immaculate Trials quest breaks (cannot be completed) if you access the cellar before you kill Loic.

I'm against "one set of books per playthrough." It should still be per level. Yeah, it's OP. What of it? It can be fun, and it can be cool. Cool and fun matter more than balance.

So seriously, I'm not against having fun and very powerful rewards in the game which can be totally out of proportion to normal play if you access them early. This isn't a player-versus-player experience, so that kind of balance isn't necessary. What I am asking is that acquiring those rewards has some kind of higher skill element, where even if you know what you're doing there are some cliffhanger moments of high tension.

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 23/07/14 12:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
What's with all the arguments about balancing? Seriously, I couldn't give two s***s less about what everyone thinks about balancing. Why are so many people obsessed with difficulty? You're repeating the same crap over and over needlessly when you die when in the same amount of time two or three playthroughs could be done. This is a perfect example of something that didn't need to be fixed. Don't like it? Then DON'T USE IT!! There's no what, if, ands or buts about it! If you lack self discipline and you can't play the way you want because your will is weaker than a wet paper towel then that's your personal problem that you need to deal with during your alone time. Some people have busy schedules and don't have time to bull**** repeating the same fights multiple times or waste time running around to figure out how to accommodate some missing bloody ability because there's that one point in the game were you can't do without.


Because balance is necessary if the developers hope to maintain their vision of how their ideas should be visited. Obviously they have an interest in doing that since the game is filled with rules that define each system.

They can't just "leave the Seller of Secrets alone" and leave it up to the player to choose whether to abuse it or not. The average player doesn't come to these forums or even know something is wrong with this NPC. All they see is the inventory restocking with books. At that point it's not a decision to abuse it or not - from the perspective of the unaware that's just how the vendor works, is obviously intended, so why wouldn't they make use of it? You might as well expect them not to "abuse" vendors by shopping with them.

If the developers intended for the Seller of Secrets not to restock those books in the inventory then they need to set things up that way - because that's the only surefire way to make their vision crystal clear to everyone, not just the ~2% of players who visit the forums.

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Originally Posted by Gyson
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
What's with all the arguments about balancing? Seriously, I couldn't give two s***s less about what everyone thinks about balancing. Why are so many people obsessed with difficulty? You're repeating the same crap over and over needlessly when you die when in the same amount of time two or three playthroughs could be done. This is a perfect example of something that didn't need to be fixed. Don't like it? Then DON'T USE IT!! There's no what, if, ands or buts about it! If you lack self discipline and you can't play the way you want because your will is weaker than a wet paper towel then that's your personal problem that you need to deal with during your alone time. Some people have busy schedules and don't have time to bull**** repeating the same fights multiple times or waste time running around to figure out how to accommodate some missing bloody ability because there's that one point in the game were you can't do without.


Because balance is necessary if the developers hope to maintain their vision of how their ideas should be visited. Obviously they have an interest in doing that since the game is filled with rules that define each system.

They can't just "leave the Seller of Secrets alone" and leave it up to the player to choose whether to abuse it or not. The average player doesn't come to these forums or even know something is wrong with this NPC. All they see is the inventory restocking with books. At that point it's not a decision to abuse it or not - from the perspective of the unaware that's just how the vendor works, is obviously intended, so why wouldn't they make use of it? You might as well expect them not to "abuse" vendors by shopping with them.

If the developers intended for the Seller of Secrets not to restock those books in the inventory then they need to set things up that way - because that's the only surefire way to make their vision crystal clear to everyone, not just the ~2% of players who visit the forums.


So what if other players don't come to the forums? There's nothing to be known as "wrong" in that regard because it's not "wrong", it's a choice. No need for Larian to force the choice on anyone just because a few like yourself are throwing a hissy fit over it. In that same regard, statistically most players never play more than one playthrough(actually most never finish one playthrough), wouldn't run out of their way to unlock it at lever 3 or 4, wouldn't know the books restock after every level up and naturally the teller of secrets wouldn't even likely be unlocked until level 10+ as it only unlocks after finding the 5th star stone.

So why don't you get lost with your garbage? Don't like it? Don't use it, simple as that.

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I say, how do you fleece a sheep?


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Nothing ever gets perfectly balanced, or if it does it's some miraculous thing which you can never count on happening. Game scope, and just making new games, are usually more important priorities. With most games you could work on balancing them forever and never get them perfect.

From a developer perspective, deciding how thoroughly to balance a game is a judgment call. In the vast majority of cases, leaving it unbalanced and focusing on more important things is the right decision. It would have to be a particularly grievous imbalance, and/or have a particularly cost-effective solution, in order to deviate from this plan.

Don't harp on every last thing or expect a fully balanced game. At the end of the day, you'd prefer more content (and not necessarily just D:OS content either, perhaps other titles entirely).

That said, I do think the way invisibility is handled in this game is something important enough to make some changes, such as the "sees invisibility" enemies. To me, it matters that much. However, there are lots of minor things which kind of bother me that I'm either going to refrain from making suggestions for, or I'll suggest it anyway but not really expect, or even really desire, anything to come of it. Just because it's wrong doesn't mean it's worth fixing.

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 23/07/14 03:03 PM.
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LOL, if you want a cheap level up use a cheat engine. Stop whining that the developer didn't include a god mode himself, it's pathetic...


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Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Originally Posted by Gyson
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
What's with all the arguments about balancing? Seriously, I couldn't give two s***s less about what everyone thinks about balancing. Why are so many people obsessed with difficulty? You're repeating the same crap over and over needlessly when you die when in the same amount of time two or three playthroughs could be done. This is a perfect example of something that didn't need to be fixed. Don't like it? Then DON'T USE IT!! There's no what, if, ands or buts about it! If you lack self discipline and you can't play the way you want because your will is weaker than a wet paper towel then that's your personal problem that you need to deal with during your alone time. Some people have busy schedules and don't have time to bull**** repeating the same fights multiple times or waste time running around to figure out how to accommodate some missing bloody ability because there's that one point in the game were you can't do without.


Because balance is necessary if the developers hope to maintain their vision of how their ideas should be visited. Obviously they have an interest in doing that since the game is filled with rules that define each system.

They can't just "leave the Seller of Secrets alone" and leave it up to the player to choose whether to abuse it or not. The average player doesn't come to these forums or even know something is wrong with this NPC. All they see is the inventory restocking with books. At that point it's not a decision to abuse it or not - from the perspective of the unaware that's just how the vendor works, is obviously intended, so why wouldn't they make use of it? You might as well expect them not to "abuse" vendors by shopping with them.

If the developers intended for the Seller of Secrets not to restock those books in the inventory then they need to set things up that way - because that's the only surefire way to make their vision crystal clear to everyone, not just the ~2% of players who visit the forums.


So what if other players don't come to the forums? There's nothing to be known as "wrong" in that regard because it's not "wrong", it's a choice. No need for Larian to force the choice on anyone just because a few like yourself are throwing a hissy fit over it. In that same regard, statistically most players never play more than one playthrough(actually most never finish one playthrough), wouldn't run out of their way to unlock it at lever 3 or 4, wouldn't know the books restock after every level up and naturally the teller of secrets wouldn't even likely be unlocked until level 10+ as it only unlocks after finding the 5th star stone.

So why don't you get lost with your garbage? Don't like it? Don't use it, simple as that.

You can be certain that the only time Larian forces a choice on anyone is because that is the way they want their design to work. They don't do it simply because someone "throws a hissy fit over it", as you would choose to conveniently believe.

So, going by the patch notes it would appear the developers don't want those two books to respawn and did not intend for the restocking to be part of their design. That's their choice - it's their module. You have a choice of not playing it if you don't like it. You also have a choice of making your own module and restocking books until the cows come home.

"It's as simple as that."

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Originally Posted by LordCrash
LOL, if you want a cheap level up use a cheat engine. Stop whining that the developer didn't include a god mode himself, it's pathetic...


They should include more elbow room when it comes to level up and they should focus on fixing actual bugs, not things that don't need fixing. As for your opinions on whether you think this is pathetic or whatever else, I've got some ideas about where you could stick those opinions I'd be glad to share if you feel you just don't know what to do about them. hehe

Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 23/07/14 06:10 PM.
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