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Originally Posted by Grossmond
Originally Posted by blazed
No official statement has been given out about the use of the Engine but currently paid projects are not allowed.

For the record your first reply "No offence but it seems people are stomping their feet and demanding free stuff.", was a pretty toxic first response


I just asked very politely to keep opinions out of this as the original posts is about answering specific questions, I really dont care about your opinion, The thread topic or questions is not "HEY GUYS WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS?"

The fact you clearly ignored my request really makes me think you're doing it on purpose, which is a shame.

The fact that you say I was the first to be toxic is by far a big joke you bloody moron.

First 3 posts to reply to me included an uncalled for:

Modding for selling = end of the community. Period.
Do the community some good, stick to Unity.

really, people wanting to sell their mods are plain greedy.

Selling mods sounds more cancerous than EA.


Sure I was the one that was being toxic and negative...

Great spot.

Also you just registered now and first post? Cromcrom is that you???

Now to repeat:

Can we stop derailing the forum post on purposely and the general trolling.

Last edited by blazed; 24/07/14 08:47 AM.
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Just a reminder, on this thread, 17 replies are yours ^^

No its not me, I don't need alts to say what I want to say.

Last edited by Cromcrom; 24/07/14 09:11 AM.

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Its simple,

If you want to make mods and sell them, go ahead and try your best because you wont get far.

If you make mods and ask for donations to expand it then you will get somewhere.

If you expecting to make money for mods which are not official from Larian Studios then don't bother making mods at all.

Last time i checked mods where created by the community for the community.

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If you make mods and ask for donations to expand it then you will get somewhere.

I am all for this, really. Makes the best out of modders, who will try hard to make nice stuff, and people, who can show there support and being generous. I really think this option is great.


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Originally Posted by blazed
First 3 posts to reply to me included an uncalled for:

Uncalled for? You asked a question, I answered it. Whether I answered it correctly or not, that's debatable, but it sounds to me that you just don't like the answers that people are giving you.

Originally Posted by blazed
Can we stop derailing the forum post on purposely and the general trolling.

I don't know, can you? After reading through the whole thread I can only detect one person that's being unnecessarily rude and offensive, and that person is you.

Now, if you want a real answer to your questions, you'll just have to wait until someone from Larian comes by. It'd be nice if you'd change that attitude in the mean time, but I am not getting my hopes up. up

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Originally Posted by blazed
I just asked very politely to keep opinions out of this as the original posts is about answering specific questions, I really dont care about your opinion, The thread topic or questions is not "HEY GUYS WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS?"


This is a forum, which are places of open discussion most of which is personal opinion so there isn't any way for someone to respond without it being an opinion. You asked the Devs a question which is a hot topic for a lot of people, since historically in some forum communities changes have been made in games based on that feedback expect to get both sides of it.

If every reply you got was of an opinion supporting your own I doubt you'd object to all the opinionated posts.


Quote
The fact that you say I was the first to be toxic is by far a big joke you bloody moron.

First 3 posts to reply to me included an uncalled for:

Modding for selling = end of the community. Period.
Do the community some good, stick to Unity.

really, people wanting to sell their mods are plain greedy.

Selling mods sounds more cancerous than EA.


Sure I was the one that was being toxic and negative...

Great spot.


I didn't attack you with my post, and yet you quickly did. Were his opinions blunt and to a point? Yes. Did he call you an idiot? Moron?

Quote
Also you just registered now and first post? Cromcrom is that you???


Nope, I am usually someone who just reads forums but as this is a very hot topic to me I felt compelled to create an account. To me its offensive that there are so many people in other threads jumping in and making mods not asking themselves "Can I make some serious $$ doing this?"

Quote

Now to repeat:

Can we stop derailing the forum post on purposely and the general trolling.


The point of this post is a topic of should people be allowed to sell mods they make?

Then expect replies in response to this from all forms of opinion. I don't know why anyone anywhere expects to make a topic of such large impact and not receive every opinion on the planet.

There was a time when people who made mods did so for the purpose of giving to the community and using it to build their own portfolio of projects they've done for use when applying for jobs.

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In my perspective, it's become pointless to continue these threads.
It's a to-and-fro and nothing fruitful comes from it.
IMHO all I see is that the pro-profit aren't trying to make a strong case and keep repeating themselves after the pro-sharing smite their arguments down.

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Originally Posted by blazed
Originally Posted by Grossmond
Originally Posted by blazed
No official statement has been given out about the use of the Engine but currently paid projects are not allowed.

For the record your first reply "No offence but it seems people are stomping their feet and demanding free stuff.", was a pretty toxic first response


I just asked very politely to keep opinions out of this as the original posts is about answering specific questions, I really dont care about your opinion, The thread topic or questions is not "HEY GUYS WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS?"

The fact you clearly ignored my request really makes me think you're doing it on purpose, which is a shame.

The fact that you say I was the first to be toxic is by far a big joke you bloody moron.

First 3 posts to reply to me included an uncalled for:

Modding for selling = end of the community. Period.
Do the community some good, stick to Unity.

really, people wanting to sell their mods are plain greedy.

Selling mods sounds more cancerous than EA.


Sure I was the one that was being toxic and negative...

Great spot.

Also you just registered now and first post? Cromcrom is that you???

Now to repeat:

Can we stop derailing the forum post on purposely and the general trolling.


You can't write a massive wall of "HAHAHAHA..."

Then a few posts later complain about manners and staying on topic.

Not if you want to be taken seriously anyway.

You got confrontational before anyone else did.

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Originally Posted by Bucket
In my perspective, it's become pointless to continue these threads.
It's a to-and-fro and nothing fruitful comes from it.
IMHO all I see is that the pro-profit aren't trying to make a strong case and keep repeating themselves after the pro-sharing smite their arguments down.


What's the argument for requiring all mods to be free again? I mean... why not do that with the game itself, right?

Why are you playing a game you most certainly had to pay for when you could be playing a game for free... and numerous examples of those exist.

The fact of the matter is that people *will* work for free, they'll share for free, etc etc for free.

But chances are they'll work harder for money. This is why, for example, you get paid to go to work. It seems the going philosophy that whether you're a ditch digger or a dentist you'll work harder if there's a paycheck involved somewhere down the line.

It's not always true but it's true enough that it's one of the foundational principles of our entire society.

So, if people want to make mods for free? More power to them. I have absolutely no problem with that.

But if people *also* want to earn income from the act of making mods why should that be a problem for anyone anywhere save that it threatens the current paradigm of "The people in this discussion forum are less likely to get free shit".

As is *Developers* already sell mods, they just call them DLC. To which you say "but the regular person has no rights over the content of the game and so shouldn't be profiting off it" to which I respond "And that has precisely jack shit to do with you and is completely between the modders and the developers, who might wisely turn it into an additional revenue stream".

There has been no justifiable argument for why the community has any vested interest in boycotting sellers of mods, or demanding they not be allowed to sell their product outside of "BUT MY MUNNY~!" while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing mod sellers of being GREEDY.

I mean look if you don't want to sell a mod? That's fine. No problem. Seriously, no problem at all. Go for it to your hearts content.

But no one who wants to sell theirs should be barred from doing so because a few tight asses on some internet forum want to maintain the status quo.

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Mr.C you nailed it on the head but the thick heads won't get it.

I just hope someday Larian does make a revenue share, I will be on the paid mod side and I want nothing to do with these free modders that want it only their way. I hope we have two completely seperate sections.

I'd rather make a MOD and share it with 3 other people who bought it for $5 each, than make a mod and share it for free with 100 people. I don't want to give anyone anything for free this is my choice, just the same way as 3D artist I no longer make free models for royalty projects, It's my choice. I don't want masses of people telling me they want this fixed or that done or moaning about updates, I'd rather have 5 people complaining about my mod instead of 100. I certainly don't need virtual appreciations and gratitude from people I will never see in real life.

But I am an outright scam for apparently even asking questions for such things.

Last edited by blazed; 24/07/14 09:23 PM.
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There has been no justifiable argument for why the community has any vested interest in boycotting sellers of mods, or demanding they not be allowed to sell their product outside of "BUT MY MUNNY~!" while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing mod sellers of being GREEDY.

What about the fact that selling mod would kill the community. Selling mods = keep the edge so my mods is sold = don't share that edge in case another mod take it, sells better, and I sell less = no more sharing. Don't help him, he might outsell us. A community is about sharing. No sharing, then modders are individuals, sticking to their own little greedy minds.
So because 2-3 people want to make a living out of selling mods, means we can destroy the modders community ?
I tell them: want to make money for a living? Get a real job, create a game out of dedicated engines, like unity, RPG maker, whatever, but don't destroy the hardly growing community here. Modding is about hobby, not getting the job done.

And, if by any chance, they finally create something amazing, that catches Larian's interest, I really hope for them it will become a stand alone, and they will get paid for it (Day Z, DOTA, and so on).
But until then, don't sell mods, and keep the community the great friendly and sharing thing it should be.

Anything you don't get in this ?

Last edited by Cromcrom; 24/07/14 09:29 PM.

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Originally Posted by Cromcrom
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There has been no justifiable argument for why the community has any vested interest in boycotting sellers of mods, or demanding they not be allowed to sell their product outside of "BUT MY MUNNY~!" while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing mod sellers of being GREEDY.

What about the fact that selling mod would kill the community. Selling mods = keep the edge so my mods is sold = don't share that edge in case another mod take it, sells better, and I sell less = no more sharing. Don't help him, he might outsell us. A community is about sharing. No sharing, then modders are individuals, sticking to their own little greedy minds.
So because 2-3 people want to make a living out of selling mods, means we can destroy the modders community ?
I tell them: want to make money for a living? Get a real job, create a game out of dedicated engines, like unity, RPG maker, whatever, but don't destroy the hardly growing community here. Modding is about hobby, not getting the job done.

And, if by any chance, they finally create something amazing, that catches Larian's interest, I really hope for them it will become a stand alone, and they will get paid for it (Day Z, DOTA, and so on).
But until then, don't sell mods, and keep the community the great friendly and sharing thing it should be.

Anything you don't get in this ?


Your argument hinges on the belief that because some modders make money off the endeavor all of them will try to and thus the modding community will be destroyed.

The simple truth is that some people will share and some won't. But so what? Those that want to share and discuss things openly will share, those that don't won't.

I don't see a lot of benefit from forcing people into one scheme (Give it to us for free) for "The Greater Good".

Why not let people choose for themselves what they want to do? If the community is so weak that it has to be propped up by forcing people to volunteer their work for free when they would rather make an income from it then it's a shitty community to begin with and deserves to die.

I, however, believe that what happened with D&D 3.5 will happen here and we'll have a long standing and enduring community that makes use of this amazing tool we've *purchased*.

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Originally Posted by blazed
But I am an outright scam for apparently even asking questions for such things.


Grow up! You asked for a discussion and you got one. You're not a victim, and no-one here is stopping you from or forcing you to do anything.

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As Mr.C quoted you Cromcrom I can see what you wrote so here some life facts for you:

Iphone Market, Android market, etc. free apps and paid apps, did the paid apps kill the free apps? No! Did the Paid Apps stop Education and sharing? No! Does Paid apps always do better than Free Apps? NO!

PC Games, free games and paid games, did the paid games kill the free games? No! Did the paid games stop education and sharing? No! Does Paid games always do better than free Apps? NO!

Get served, and now stfu.

Just a bunch of Dictators that want to force everyone into the free market because they fear their own works will die out suddenly, little pussycats.

Originally Posted by SleazyG
Originally Posted by blazed
But I am an outright scam for apparently even asking questions for such things.


Grow up! You asked for a discussion and you got one. You're not a victim, and no-one here is stopping you from or forcing you to do anything.


Hardly, I asked only for specific answers to my questions, Negative opinions on the matter and flaming towards paid mods was NOT part of the discussion and I wasn't in the slightest asking for such conversation. I admit I did derail in the direction that others took me towards, that was their intention after all.

There is another thread here someone is making a Diablo 2 mod which is illegal and it breaks several copyrights but because it's a free mod people are cheering him and thanking him.

Then on the other hand people want to make some bucks for their work with Larians permission making original content for users who have the option to buy or not, yet this sort of discussion and modder gets flamed?

You think you are on the moral high grounds... Ha... preposterous!

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You are ignoring what the whole modding community is about. You are no "modder". Get a job, Karate Kid.


Last edited by Cromcrom; 25/07/14 05:30 AM.

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Originally Posted by blazed

Hardly, I asked only for specific answers to my questions


When you start a forum thread you are starting a discussion.

At least you've learnt something from this I guess.

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Originally Posted by Mr. C

Your argument hinges on the belief that because some modders make money off the endeavor all of them will try to and thus the modding community will be destroyed.

The simple truth is that some people will share and some won't. But so what? Those that want to share and discuss things openly will share, those that don't won't.

I don't see a lot of benefit from forcing people into one scheme (Give it to us for free) for "The Greater Good".

Why not let people choose for themselves what they want to do? If the community is so weak that it has to be propped up by forcing people to volunteer their work for free when they would rather make an income from it then it's a shitty community to begin with and deserves to die.

I, however, believe that what happened with D&D 3.5 will happen here and we'll have a long standing and enduring community that makes use of this amazing tool we've *purchased*.


Mate, have you even seen the state of modding "communities" like the minecraft modding community? Mojang didn't crack down on people profiting off of their mods via ad redirect links for a couple of years, and the result was people going fucking INSANE whenever you borrowed code for your own mods (even with credit given), or updated theirs for them when they were too busy faffing about with other games or life. Not to mention how ravenous they got when mojang actually decided enough was enough and forbade adfly and other such links in their EULA. There were a few principled people who didn't use it, but it was much more common to see an adfly link that promptly redirected to a free file sharing site like mediafire or dropbox.

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I really hate reading trash like this. Why do you "need" to make money to modify a game? Nobody makes you modify THIS game, go make your own, or god's forbid, get a job AT the company if you want paid to work on it.

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Originally Posted by blazed
You say modding is not a job, it actually requires a lot of time.


Sorry blazed, but that is a terrible justification for saying modding should be rewarded with a monetary payoff. There are plenty creative hobbies that require LOTS of time. The main thing they have in common is that they are labors of love. You wouldn't be doing them unless you loved what you are doing. That has been the foundation for community mods in video games since mods have existed. Gamers aren't trying to demand free stuff. On the contrary, it kinda sounds like you are demanding that you should be monetarily rewarded for something that's traditionally not been rewarded that way.

Now...if you are someone who's hoping to get into the gaming industry, and you are trying to use these sorts of projects to make a name for yourself, do it the old-fashioned way: work a day-job, and put in your "labor of love" hours on your hobby time (Not the time you expect to be paid). If your end results are noteworthy enough, a gaming studio will notice. Don't try to monetize something that's been traditionally free since it's existence.

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Train Simulator mods are being sold in quite a lively fashion, some people make decent supplemental income doing that. Naturally, those are pro and semipro-made models, textures and environments. Mods-for-sale is not without precedent, and Train Simulator has one of the most extensive and long-lived modding communities ever.

Now it doesn't hurt of course that the publisher of TS encourages or at least does not mind this, because it stimulates (in a roundabout way) purchases of TS DLCs (the entire library costs over $1000, and that's during Steam discount sales). Of course, paid mods get pirated and redistributed mercilessly, them's the breaks.

Most companies put the kibosh on selling derivative content though. I don't know what Larian's stance would be.


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