Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Jul 2014
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
Joined: Jul 2014
we've moved on from Baldur's Gate."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dragon-age-inquisition-the-baldurs-gate-legacy-and/1100-6421016/

Just want to leave this article here. For a while now I have felt that Bioware seem to lack the ability to make an engaging RPG since Dragon Age Origins and after the awful DA 2 and ME3 (even ME2 in some respects) Bioware just seem to want to appeal to the "masses".

Divinity Original Sin has been on the top sellers on Steam for over a month and the same goes for GOG.com but Bioware seems to think people don't want that anymore? And they also want Dragon Age to be mentioned in the same breath as Skyrim, a game that I feel is the weakest in the main series and alot of other Elder Scrolls player seem to think so also.

Bioware were one of my favourite developers back in the day but its sad to see them just be completely incapable to make a decent RPG anymore.

Last edited by fossilfern; 04/08/14 01:49 PM.
Joined: Aug 2014
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Aug 2014
I'm not sure what to think of the article, as I own DA:O on my Steam account and I really didn't think it was worthy of high praise, although it is a good game and I still enjoyed it. I may even go back to it sometime in the future. As far as having ''moved on'' from the NWN format, I honestly think that with today's technical advancements and continued refinement, there is still plenty of work that can be done with this format/style and that the true depths of this type of RPG just haven't been fully explored yet, we still have a long way to go, though D:OS has made quite a jump towards seeing what we can do today. And there is still a lot more to come of it, hopefully!


''And so it was, that the herald of Cthonian war mastery stormed the burning violet fields of Kerrul'thar, enraptured in glorious twilight as he reigned destruction upon the brave Atlantean heroes!''
Joined: Jul 2014
D
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
D
Joined: Jul 2014
I honestly didn't even think DA:O was very impressive. Given that it was advertised as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, it didn't really meet my expectations.

Joined: Jul 2014
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
Joined: Jul 2014
I thoroughly enjoyed DA:O, it wasn't as good as BG but compared to what they have released recently I just cant see us getting the old Bioware back. The game looks better than DA:2 but suppose that isnt a hard thing to do.

Joined: May 2004
member
Offline
member
Joined: May 2004
Originally Posted by fossilfern
Divinity Original Sin has been on the top sellers on Steam for over a month and the same goes for GOG.com but Bioware seems to think people don't want that anymore?

It's not necessarily that they even think people don't want it anymore, but they think that not enough people want it. And for their purposes, they're right. Larian is obviously making great profits off D:OS, but they're a 40-person company. EA has 10,000 employees, these kind of profits aren't worth their time. They're targetting the mass market, the unwashed masses (aka: console players). If you're looking for the D:OS kind of RPGs, there's no point in even paying attention to BioWare anymore.

Joined: May 2014
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: May 2014
I think this is some very silly commentary from the Bioware guy. I've seen a lot of silly commentary though recently vis a vis this DA vs Witcher vs Baldur's Gate style rpg's and I just can't get with any of it.

For me there are different types of games for whatever mood I am in. I love Divinity:OS and I also enjoyed Skyrim and DA II has it's charms even if I like it less than the aforesaid. I don't see why I can't have both? I mean a hardcore rpg for when I am in that mood and some big eye candy like Skyrim for when I want that sort of thing (and sometimes I do). I don't get this "it has to be one or the other" sort of thing.

But that guy from Bioware is talking out his ass. By now, of course, he and his company have noted the success of D:OS and can see that there is still an audience for this kind of game.

Joined: Jul 2014
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Fireblade
Originally Posted by fossilfern
Divinity Original Sin has been on the top sellers on Steam for over a month and the same goes for GOG.com but Bioware seems to think people don't want that anymore?

It's not necessarily that they even think people don't want it anymore, but they think that not enough people want it. And for their purposes, they're right. Larian is obviously making great profits off D:OS, but they're a 40-person company. EA has 10,000 employees, these kind of profits aren't worth their time. They're targetting the mass market, the unwashed masses (aka: console players). If you're looking for the D:OS kind of RPGs, there's no point in even paying attention to BioWare anymore.


Well I wouldn't say console players are the issue, I have had this debate a number of times but I don't want to go into it but yes games like D:OS are normally associated with the PC. No doubt that the Bioware/EA overhead is a lot greater than Larian and maybe that needs changed. Either way its too late now and I will check out DA:I because I am a glutton for punishment and Bioware meant a lot to me back in the day that I just cant seem to help myself but I will probably buy it second hand on the Xbox One.

Ah well like I said the old Bioware is gone so I suppose there is no point on getting worked up over Biowares current course in terms of game development.

Joined: May 2004
member
Offline
member
Joined: May 2004
BioWare is the Metallica of video games, you know they sold out long ago but you still feel obligated to buy and play their new releases because once upon a time they were pretty great.

Joined: Nov 2003
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2003
Hmm...perhaps going OT for this forum but the article was worth a few chuckles. The presumption that Dragon Age (with a dumbed down RPG system, inflexible camera, simplified lighting model) is an "advance" on Neverwinter Nights seems to indicate Bioware's desire to rewrite history. And this gem:

"He says the game's crafting system is the deepest BioWare has ever created. You don't just craft individual items from raw materials, but actually create different parts of the final product and then combine them..."

suggests they've forgotten how crafting started fairly complex in NWN2 and was rapidly simplified in the expansions (presumably in response to feedback). I'm guessing that Inquisition will be principally a match-the-ingredients crafting puzzle game (with lots of special ingredients only available as extra paid content/DLC) with a bland, uninspiring 3D adventure tacked on.

Given Gamespot's criteria ("I can see this is Dragon Age. The evergreens are tall and rigid, and their olive-hued needles are duller than those you would see in many other fantasy games") I've not got any expectations for DA3, but then I've boycotted EA/Bioware for a few years over their DRM policy (mandatory online activation) and not bought anything since the original DA Awakenings expansion. Like the OP, I consider Bioware long gone and am far more interested in what Obsidian might achieve with Pillars of Eternity.

Last edited by Stargazer; 04/08/14 02:47 PM.
Joined: Jul 2014
C
Caj Offline
stranger
Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Tombeatster
For me there are different types of games for whatever mood I am in. I love Divinity:OS and I also enjoyed Skyrim and DA II has it's charms even if I like it less than the aforesaid. I don't see why I can't have both? I mean a hardcore rpg for when I am in that mood and some big eye candy like Skyrim for when I want that sort of thing (and sometimes I do). I don't get this "it has to be one or the other" sort of thing.
This. As long as there are a variety of RPGs out there, why complain? If someone doesn't like BioWare's RPGs then don't play them, play D:OS or the Witcher or whatever floats your boat. There is no need to rip an RPG or an RPG-producing company because they don't make an RPG the way you want it made. There are, thankfully, many choices to choose from. Choose yours and be happy. smile

Joined: Jul 2014
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
Joined: Jul 2014
" I consider Bioware long gone and am far more interested in what Obsidian might achieve with Pillars of Eternity."

Exactly! I was in work and I was debating with a friend about Bioware and I was saying they are a shadow of their former self and he was accusing me of not moving on with the times. So the argument went on and he goes "look we can both agree that we'd love a KOTOR 3" and I said "yes but not done by Bioware".

Bioware were once my favourite developer back in the day but the thought of Bioware working on another KOTOR game literally makes clench my fist because I REALLY loved KOTOR and even KOTOR2 but after the terrible SWTOR (admittedly I'm not into MMOs) and their current track of games I wouldnt want them to ruin something like KOTOR.

I would love Obsidian to work on another KOTOR but actually finish it this time, because it was a great game too.

Last edited by fossilfern; 04/08/14 02:54 PM.
Joined: Jul 2014
C
Caj Offline
stranger
Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Stargazer
interested in what Obsidian might achieve with Pillars of Eternity.
Yet another game, alongside D:OS, that has the potential of showing what can still be done with isometric view RPGs. I'm really looking forward to PoE.

Joined: Dec 2013
W
stranger
Offline
stranger
W
Joined: Dec 2013
I agree with them. I tried to play this game, I tried to like it, but instead of a fun and engaging game, I found a tedious and dull game that just didn't engage me. It has some good elements and some good points, but for the most part I had to force myself to continue on with it. Not so for DA:O. From the moments I started it, to the moment I finished it I was engaged and had a good gaming experience.

Joined: May 2004
member
Offline
member
Joined: May 2004
DA:O wasn't too bad of a game IMO, but it's no D:OS. Its main downside is that realtime-with-pause-combat just blows.

It's after DA:O that BioWare really went downhill.

Joined: Aug 2014
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Wizaerd
I agree with them. I tried to play this game, I tried to like it, but instead of a fun and engaging game, I found a tedious and dull game that just didn't engage me. It has some good elements and some good points, but for the most part I had to force myself to continue on with it. Not so for DA:O. From the moments I started it, to the moment I finished it I was engaged and had a good gaming experience.


To each their own, and your opinion on how you feel about the games is valid.

But for Bioware to basically deny the fact that there is a large amount of game players out there who have been aching for a game like BG2 or NWN speaks volumes to the fact that they have lost touch with a large base of their fans.

D:OS is not perfect, by any means, but it has filled a role in the gaming community that has been absent for a long, long time. If executives at Bioware can't see that people still want games like this (I think Kickstarter has done a good job of proving this, with this, Pillars of Eternity, and the new Torment game all getting absolutely huge backer numbers... well, I don't know what else could bring Bioware back to their old fans, because they are lost.

Joined: Jul 2014
W
member
Offline
member
W
Joined: Jul 2014
KOTOR2 was developed by Obsidian, not Bioware =)

Joined: May 2004
member
Offline
member
Joined: May 2004
Judging by what he said in his post, he knows that.

Joined: Jul 2014
T
stranger
Offline
stranger
T
Joined: Jul 2014
I'm not sure why you can only like one or the other. I'm really enjoying Divinity: Original Sin. It's a great game, but I also like the Dragon Age games. DA:O was very good, DA2 was kinda meh, but had an ok story. I'm looking forward to Inquisition, hoping it's learned for the mistakes of it's predecessors. I'm also really looking forward to Pillars of Eternity, Torment, and even just threw 20 bucks at the Kickstarter for After Reset.

Different games fill different spots for me. Bioware games are the giant summer popcorn movies. They have to have mass market appeal to make enough money to pay for their massive production cost. That doesn't inherently make them bad. Besides, other then the huge stumble at the end of ME3, I feel they usually tell a reasonably good story. Divnity is the lower budget Indie Sci Fi movie that hopefully becomes a huge hit, like Star Wars was once upon a time (for those of us who remember when Episode IV first came out.)


Joined: Oct 2013
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
The problem with the RPG's like Skyrim, Dragon Age and Mass Effect is not that they are bad RPG's, it's that they are 90% flashy and only 10% substance. Doesn't mean I don't like playing them, but for me games like BG2 and NWN fill a certain mood that NO rpg of the newer kind can even approach.

D:OS certainly does not compare well to BG2 but it never wanted to do that either. In itself it's a decent game. One that might have benefited from more focused writing but that's how Larian rolls.

This article is also directly countered by the big 3, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Torment 2 that are coming. These games are made on-demand which is fantastic, because it proves, there is indeed demand for the "older style" RPG's. Whether they are good or not we'll see when they release. But fact is that gamers are not all over BG2 / NWN wink

IN the end, more RPG is ALWAYS better imo.

Equally I don't understand why it's a binary choice in the eyes of Bioware/Gamespot. I like BG2, no I adore it. Same for NWN with modules. BUt I also liked Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins, I like good games first, good RPG's second.

Joined: Jul 2014
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Whysper
KOTOR2 was developed by Obsidian, not Bioware =)


Yeah I know that:

"I would love Obsidian to work on another KOTOR but actually finish it this time, because it was a great game too."

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5