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#536955 05/08/14 06:37 AM
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olje Offline OP
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Ive made a mage and picked up 3 elemental skills, air, geo and pyro. Is this too much? is it impossible to get the high level spells doing it this way?

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Not too much. Not impossible to get the high level skills. You're fine.

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In regards to learning multiple schools of magic you should know that later in the game you will be able to trade 1 unspent talent point for 10 ability points. If you can't find a talent that interest you it might be an idea to just save the talent point for a later trade.

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Theres not many talents you really NEED.

For combat characters you only really want.
1) Bully.
1) Lone Wolf.
5) Glass Cannon
7) Expert Marksman OR Weather The Storm.

For mages you only really want.

1) Pet Pal.
1) Lone Wolf.
5) Glass Cannon.
7) Far Out Man.

You can easily turn the other talent points into Ability Points and pump your Body Building/Willpower.

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Not having enough ranks in a skill tree for a particular spell only means that you have to pay an extra 2 AP for each rank you are missing.
There is only 1 spell per mage tree that requires rank 5, so if you are OK paying 2 extra AP for those you can get 3 trees to level 4 without investing additional points.
My recommendation is to bring all 5 trees to level 1-2 first instead of focusing at leveling 1 as fast as possible.

Last edited by eidolon; 05/08/14 11:57 AM.
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Lone Wolf is crap. Seriously. You get +2 AP (which you then double to +4). But you lose, at a minimum, 6AP which would be on the companion (more realistically 12AP, because Glass Cannon). Plus 4, minus 12 is a crappy trade, especially since it actually costs a talent. The best way to describe Lone Wolf is that you take Glass Cannon's effect and invert it; Lone Wolf should be called Antimatter Cannon or something. And since Glass Cannon is the best thing ever, Lone Wolf is the worst thing ever.

The talent does other things too, but if you think AP isn't the most important thing in the game, you're kidding yourself.

You get plenty of ability points. Use at least three of them to get Man-at-Arms 2 (potentially more) and snag Picture of Health. On everyone. That should be enough extra Vitality to get Glass Cannon on everyone, even on Hard difficulty.

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2 Gods are way better than 4 mortals smile


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...and 4x Glass Cannon is 4 gods, which is better than 2.

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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Lone Wolf is crap. Seriously. You get +2 AP (which you then double to +4). But you lose, at a minimum, 6AP which would be on the companion (more realistically 12AP, because Glass Cannon). Plus 4, minus 12 is a crappy trade, especially since it actually costs a talent. The best way to describe Lone Wolf is that you take Glass Cannon's effect and invert it; Lone Wolf should be called Antimatter Cannon or something. And since Glass Cannon is the best thing ever, Lone Wolf is the worst thing ever.

The talent does other things too, but if you think AP isn't the most important thing in the game, you're kidding yourself.


I think the additional skill points are very good, too, and the vitality bonus compensates the vitality reduction of glass cannon. The additional vitality points of the overpowered elemental shields are based on the current vitality points of the target and this makes lone wolf very useful, too.

Last edited by Wizard1200; 05/08/14 09:01 AM.
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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Lone Wolf is crap. Seriously. You get +2 AP (which you then double to +4). But you lose, at a minimum, 6AP which would be on the companion (more realistically 12AP, because Glass Cannon). Plus 4, minus 12 is a crappy trade, especially since it actually costs a talent. The best way to describe Lone Wolf is that you take Glass Cannon's effect and invert it; Lone Wolf should be called Antimatter Cannon or something. And since Glass Cannon is the best thing ever, Lone Wolf is the worst thing ever.

The talent does other things too, but if you think AP isn't the most important thing in the game, you're kidding yourself.

You get plenty of ability points. Use at least three of them to get Man-at-Arms 2 (potentially more) and snag Picture of Health. On everyone. That should be enough extra Vitality to get Glass Cannon on everyone, even on Hard difficulty.


If you do however wish to play with only your two starting characters then the reduction in AP is already in play and the gain in ability points, action points and health comes without additional cost as you wouldn't have the other characters actions anyways.

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2 toons with 9 willpower and 9 bodybuiding are way better than 4 with 6 of each.


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If all you care about is becoming indestructible, then take lone wolf.
If you care about dealing damage, then don't take lone wolf.

Lone wolf parties deal way less damage, since they're effectively trading an entire other character for a measly 2AP per turn.
The 80% increase to HP, and the extra Ability points can definitely wind up making the characters tankier, but this will not be an issue for you at endgame regardless.

That said, I'm currently running with a lone wolf because I wanted to cut down on my party size (and test a potential exploit later on).

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realistically you will never need more than a 3 in most spell schools.

also, due to resists, you will generally want a mage type to be an 'elementalist' and at least have basic options to deal with various enemy resistances.

personally i would go with a 3, maybe a 4 if really needed, in all 4 elements then at least 2 loremaster boosted to 5 with gear so you can see enemy resists. you can do this for around 40 of your skill points. with lone wolf and no books you end up with about 68 points, so very feasible.

if you really want those end-game spells, and most suck, just deal with 2AP penalty on cast. you can use them at most once per fight and with glass cannon you will be ok.

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Originally Posted by ScrotieMcB
Lone Wolf is crap. Seriously. You get +2 AP (which you then double to +4). But you lose, at a minimum, 6AP which would be on the companion (more realistically 12AP, because Glass Cannon). Plus 4, minus 12 is a crappy trade, especially since it actually costs a talent. The best way to describe Lone Wolf is that you take Glass Cannon's effect and invert it; Lone Wolf should be called Antimatter Cannon or something. And since Glass Cannon is the best thing ever, Lone Wolf is the worst thing ever.
That's not entirely true. Lone Wolf grants additional Ability Points, which allow a single character to stack excellent offense and defense, and allow talent and spell combos that are completely impossible across a single character without book exploiting. It also much easier to keep the inventory of two characters clean than four characters, and if you are going to only play with two characters anyway because it is dramatically less hassle, you might as well take Lone Wolf.

But generally, I do agree that Lone Wolf is a difficulty INCREASE.

Last edited by Incendax; 05/08/14 12:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by olje
Ive made a mage and picked up 3 elemental skills, air, geo and pyro. Is this too much? is it impossible to get the high level spells doing it this way?


If I were you I'd only raise those skill up to level 4. You can't learn all spells this way, but in my opinion a lot of spells aren't that useful anyway. And you'll have a small penalty when casting high level spells, but those (Hailstorm, Earthquake and Meteor Shower) aren't worth it either.

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I have an all-round LWGC Mage specced in every magic school. Gets shit done and feels good. High-lvl spells included. Never regretted the decision to spec her so.

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One thing I forgot to mention earlier: Moloch will offer you ten ability points in exchange for one talent point. Ten's quite a bit, fully half of the "ability-point" part of LW, but without the drawbacks. If you're hurting for ability points, that's the way to get them.

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Originally Posted by Wayward
I have an all-round LWGC Mage specced in every magic school. Gets shit done and feels good. High-lvl spells included. Never regretted the decision to spec her so.


Ditto. My caster currently has 5 in two magic schools and 3 in all the rest, without neglecting defensive skills.

I really don't feel like having two characters is gimping me in any way. In fact, sometimes I wish I could play with one character. Half the time, my melee fighter's standing around watching the fireworks. I probably should have started raising her INT and giving her a magical school or two to play with.

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The only 2 skill sets I don't have on my mage is Scoundrel and Marksman, and it kicks very serious ass.

I am going to be making a guide for my mage to explain this.

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 03:46 PM.
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Originally Posted by tx3000
The only 2 skill sets I don't have on my mage is Scoundrel and Marksman, and it kicks very serious ass.

I am going to be making a guide for my mage to explain this.


If you add 1 point in Marksman you can get Tactical Retreat, First Aid and Doctor (although +2AP cost on Doctor)

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