Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#537164 05/08/14 12:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
LeBurns Offline OP
addict
OP Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
I keep reading people using these but I just don't see why.

Personally I like having a companion, not only just for the extra attacks and skills, but it's also another person to divide the enemy attacks with.

And Glass canon ... I just can't make myself pick something that has a weakness, a negative, in it. What makes this one worth it.

Also, if you are going to pick these, are they talents that need to be picked as soon as possible or is anytime just as good?

Thanks.

Joined: Jan 2014
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2014
Glass Cannon is just an absurd talent. 2x AP will result in dealing much more than twice the damage/turn, since you typically can't use all your AP on attacking, but will lose a bunch of them for (de)buffing, moving or healing. This also means that the buffs will be applied to more attacks before you have to cast them again. With GC you will also be able to use more expensive abilities without waiting. Furthermore Mages can cast elemental combos the same turn (like Boulder Dash + Fireball) and get another chance if their target saves against a immobilizing status effect.

-50% HP doesn't mean losing half your HP, as stupid as that might sound.
The -50% penalty is added to all the other modifiers you might have, which are Picture of Health, Lone Wolf and the difficulty modifier. The difficulty modifier is +60% on easy, +15% on normal and -25% on hard.

So without other talents, Glass Cannon would change the HP like this
easy no PoH, no LW: 160 -> 110 = -31%
easy PoH 2, no LW: 170 -> 120 = -29%
easy PoH 3, no LW: 175 -> 125 = -29%
easy PoH 4, no LW: 180 -> 130 = -28%
easy PoH 5, no LW: 185 -> 135 = -27%

easy no PoH, LW: 230 -> 180 = -22%
easy PoH 2, LW: 240 -> 190 = -21%
easy PoH 3, LW: 245 -> 195 = -20%
easy PoH 4, LW: 250 -> 200 = -20%
easy PoH 5, LW: 255 -> 205 = -20%

normal no PoH, no LW: 115 -> 65 = -43%
normal PoH 2, no LW: 125 -> 75 = -40%
normal PoH 3, no LW: 130 -> 80 = -38%
normal PoH 4, no LW: 135 -> 85 = -37%
normal PoH 5, no LW: 140 -> 90 = -36%

normal no PoH, LW: 185 -> 135 = -27%
normal PoH 2, LW: 195 -> 145 = -26%
normal PoH 3, LW: 200 -> 150 = -25%
normal PoH 4, LW: 205 -> 155 = -24%
normal PoH 5, LW: 210 -> 160 = -24%

hard no PoH, no LW: 75 -> 25 = -67%
hard PoH 2, no LW: 85 -> 35 = -59%
hard PoH 3, no LW: 90 -> 40 = -56%
hard PoH 4, no LW: 95 -> 45 = -53%
hard PoH 5, no LW: 100 -> 50 = -50%

hard no PoH, LW: 145 -> 95 = -34%
hard PoH 2, LW: 155 -> 105 = -32%
hard PoH 3, LW: 160 -> 110 = -31%
hard PoH 4, LW: 165 -> 115 = -30%
hard PoH 5, LW: 170 -> 120 = -29%


Glass Cannon is so good that you should not pick a talent at level 3 so that you can immediately use it when you get to level 5.
Lone Wolf is a talent that you should pick at level 1 or not at all, since otherwise you will be missing out on ability points.

Lone Wolf is interesting for players that are playing on hard difficulty, because of the HP and chance to hit penalty. If you are not playing on hard difficulty, Lone Wolf will significantly weaken your party.

Last edited by eidolon; 05/08/14 01:05 PM.
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
LeBurns Offline OP
addict
OP Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
Well I'm already level 20. Would GC do me any good now?

What's with the 2x AP? I thought it just doubled your recovery AP so you have a few more AP at the start of each turn. That MIGHT be enough to get you one additional attack per turn. Or am I just reading it wrong?

Joined: Jul 2014
W
member
Offline
member
W
Joined: Jul 2014
If you have 12 recovery AP (6 base, 2 from lone wolf, 4 from speed) then it gives you 12 more recovery AP. That's 6 attacks for a rogue. Or an extra summon and blind, or whatever. Makes you pretty unstoppable, unless you get taken out of the fight (which is why I've avoided it personally).

Joined: Jan 2014
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2014
Recovery AP is the AP that you recover every turn, not the starting AP. Note that Glass Cannon forces you to put a lot of points into constitution so that the max AP is >= the turn AP.

If you are worried about the HP penalty, just use 5 of your AP to cast one of the elemental shields every turn and your char will have both more HP and AP than before (unless you are playing on hard with neither LW nor PoH).

Last edited by eidolon; 05/08/14 01:22 PM.
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
LeBurns Offline OP
addict
OP Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
Thanks for the info.

Ok, you guys must be min/maxing something. All I know is that I generally start out with about 10 AP and each turn I get about 6 or 7 back. Like I said I don't use Lone Wolf (why would I?) since I like having companions. So for me I suppose I would start each turn with a full AP bar, that's nice and might get me an extra attack (don't use rogues). That hardly seems worth the HP hit.

Generally I don't min/max when I role-play as I like it to feel more natural and not forced into some demi-god build every time I play, so maybe this talent just isn't for me for those reasons alone.

Joined: Jul 2014
I
iru Offline
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
I
Joined: Jul 2014
Even at 7 AP the increase can be really nice, with GC that would allow your supporting spellcaster to buff your melee character with Wildfire, Oath of Desecration, Bless and possibly Fortify in a single turn. It might even enhance your roleplay to do so as your mage suddenly relies a bit more on using controlling spells, summons and positioning to stay safe and with the extra AP he can do so more elegantly.

Joined: Jul 2014
T
banned
Offline
banned
T
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by eidolon
If you are not playing on hard difficulty, Lone Wolf will significantly weaken your party.

Can Define what you mean by weaken?

Are you saying that you're party will just be weak in general and do bad and struggle through battles?
Or
Are you saying a strong party without lone wolf on hard would be 10 times stronger if they had lone wolf?

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 03:24 PM.
Joined: Apr 2010
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2010
I wish people stopped whining about LW/GC combo. Just stop. It's a strong combination, but so is Leech/Bleed, and if it's not those, it'll be something else ad nauseum.

This is a single player game first and foremost, so you are in no danger of losing a penis contest, and can sleep well.

Should there be a mod that changes LW/GC somehow? By all means.
Should there be an official patch that changes LW/GC? No.


"We shall not fear the coming of the shadow of death."
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: New Mexico
A
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
A
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: New Mexico
Originally Posted by Damar Stiehl
I wish people stopped whining about LW/GC combo. Just stop. It's a strong combination, but so is Leech/Bleed, and if it's not those, it'll be something else ad nauseum.

This is a single player game first and foremost, so you are in no danger of losing a penis contest, and can sleep well.

Should there be a mod that changes LW/GC somehow? By all means.
Should there be an official patch that changes LW/GC? No.

^^

Joined: Jul 2014
T
banned
Offline
banned
T
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Damar Stiehl
I wish people stopped whining about LW/GC combo. Just stop. It's a strong combination, but so is Leech/Bleed, and if it's not those, it'll be something else ad nauseum.

This is a single player game first and foremost, so you are in no danger of losing a penis contest, and can sleep well.


I couldn't agree more, if your build works then it doesn't need these combos everyone keeps yammering on and on about.

For example, I picked Lone Wolf for a mage build specifically to make use of 6 out of the 8 skills (Scoundrel and Expert Marksman were not used). Because of the way I did this build this mage whoops so much ass it's not funny. Casting Oath Of Desecration before battle and then Haste in battle makes the mage way more powerful than glass cannon and I don't suffer the AP penalty Glass Cannon gives.


BTW: Some people have reported that Leech is bugged! It's triggering the healing more times than it should. Here is a link to the topic I read that in:

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=533642

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 04:09 PM.
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
LeBurns Offline OP
addict
OP Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: NC, USA
Originally Posted by Damar Stiehl
I wish people stopped whining about LW/GC combo. Just stop. It's a strong combination, but so is Leech/Bleed, and if it's not those, it'll be something else ad nauseum.

This is a single player game first and foremost, so you are in no danger of losing a penis contest, and can sleep well.

Should there be a mod that changes LW/GC somehow? By all means.
Should there be an official patch that changes LW/GC? No.


I'll assume this is at tx3000. I have him on ignore so I don't have to bother with his posts anymore.

I haven't used any of the witchcraft spells yet so I'm not used to buffing and weakening, but it is something I'll be getting into on the next game.

Joined: Jul 2014
T
banned
Offline
banned
T
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by LeBurns
I'll assume this is at tx3000. I have him on ignore so I don't have to bother with his posts anymore.


I love people that pull this, they place people on ignore, and then they have the audacity to not only announce they're placing someone on ignore and or making a big spectacle of themselves about it, but they also start assuming and saying things such as "What Are they saying now?" and just posting replies about the person on ignore without knowing what's actually going on...LOL

This kid is a moron!

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 04:44 PM.
Joined: Jul 2014
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by eidolon
Lone Wolf is interesting for players that are playing on hard difficulty, because of the HP and chance to hit penalty. If you are not playing on hard difficulty, Lone Wolf will significantly weaken your party.
Even on Hard. Don't get me wrong, it's where Lone Wolf is at its best, but even its best doesn't justify the lost AP of a companion. Picture of Health and Glass Cannon for everybody is min/max 101, as far as I'm concerned, and LW isn't needed to make GC work on Hard.

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 05/08/14 04:49 PM.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5