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Originally Posted by tx3000
There is nothing to learn, it's very simple, an archer that has a dexterity of 11 should not ever only have a 49% chance to hit an enemy that is right next to them, for any reason.

Why? What makes Dex 11 so powerful? Did I miss something in the manual?


A majority of your "archer's suck" argument revolves around the damage output of archers, so an unwillingness to investigate why that damage output is low DOES greatly undermine your entire argument.

Regarding your other points:
A lack of special arrows would not be considered a lack if basic bow damage was satisfactory. Nor would the damage of special arrows seem lacking if basic bow damage was satisfactory (since, I think, the strength of special arrows is their utility, not their damage).

And the durability of bows/crossbows is just irrelevant.

So, archer damage output is the crux of your argument. Want to fix it?

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Originally Posted by Armakoir
Why? What makes Dex 11 so powerful? Did I miss something in the manual?

You really don't get it to you. Why is it so hard for you or others to understand that it's not supposed to be a 49% chance to hit with a dexterity of 11, especially with an enemy right next to you.

Increase dexterity it increases the chance to hit because that's exactly what dexterity does in this case. Example if 5 dex = 40% chance to hit, then 6 dex is supposed to increase it to over 40%. If you have 11 dexterity and it still only says 40% then the class is broken because it's not supposed to remain low when increasing something higher.

Originally Posted by Armakoir
A majority of your "archer's suck" argument revolves around the damage output of archers, so an unwillingness to investigate why that damage output is low DOES greatly undermine your entire argument.

Except an archer with dex of 11 that only has a 49% chance to hit is exactly like a fighter with a strength of 11 and only being able to carry 50 weight, or a mage with an intelligence of 11 not having their spells do the damage to the appropriate level raised by intelligence.


Originally Posted by Armakoir
Regarding your other points:
A lack of special arrows would not be considered a lack if basic bow damage was satisfactory. Nor would the damage of special arrows seem lacking if basic bow damage was satisfactory (since, I think, the strength of special arrows is their utility, not their damage).[quote]
None of that is relevant because a special arrow has both normal and bonus damage, while a regular arrow only has regular damage.

If you don't grasp how even at non minimal level, a special arrow is not doing as much damage as a normal one when they're supposed to, you have problems.

[quote=Armakoir]So, archer damage output is the crux of your argument. Want to fix it?

No it's the class has too many problems and things that shouldn't be happening that don't apply or happen with any other class.

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 09:52 PM.
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Answer my questions (since they all effect chance to hit) and we can continue... and help other players having problems with their archers. Otherwise, you're just being stubborn.

Best,
Arma

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tx3000 Offline OP
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I did answer them. You're just refusing to accept the answers.

Originally Posted by Armakoir
Answer my questions (since they all effect chance to hit)

THE ONLY THING THAT AFFECTS CHANCE TO HIT IS DEXTERITY...PERIOD

Not sure why people keep trying to apply perception to this.

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 09:57 PM.
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These questions?

What level is your archer? What level is the enemy unit? What type of enemy unit is it (ie archer, mage, etc)? And what difficulty level are you playing on?

No, you didn't.

Last chance...

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Quoting this from the game's manual:

"Hovering over the target will also show your chance of a successful hit
on that enemy. Your chance depends on the primary statistic related to
your specific type of attack and weapon,your offence rating , as well as
the enemy's defence rating. Enemies with lower defence ratings tend to
be easy to attack, while those with higher defence ratings can be very
difficult to hit.
"

Your chance to hit depends not only on your offence rating but also on the enemy's defence rating. So, if you see a very low chance to hit, then the enemy has a very high defence rating - one of the possible reasons is that you are fighting enemies who are above your level. When I picked up fights with my level 11 characters against level 14 spiders, then the chance to hit of my warrior was even worse than 49% - it was actually just 29%. Btw, my warrior had strength of 13 at this time.

Last edited by Elwyn; 05/08/14 10:01 PM.
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WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE AL NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. AN ENEMIES STATS ARE ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT YOUR CHARACTERS CAPABILITIES ARE.

An archer's chance to hit is set by it's dexterity. An enemy that has fortified armor while being wet has nothing to do with the 49% chance to hit my character has that was set by my characters dexterity.

That CHANCE TO HIT number is going to read 49% no matter what status the enemy does or does not have. I am still going to be shooting at a 49% chance to hit WHEN I FIRE THAT ARROW because that is what my chance to hit is.


Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 10:16 PM.
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I'm getting tempted to load the game up, pick a fight with a creature, take a screen shot of the chance to hit and my character sheet.

Then load the save in the Save Editor, changing the Dex one by one, loading the save and taking a screen shot each time. Then repeating the same thing with Perception.
Then going back and alternating each time between Dex and Perception.

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You're all not getting it. You think an enemies status or level is going to change the chance the % YOUR character Shoots at. Which is incorrect. Sure the game may adjust the number but you're still shooting at whatever % you're characters dexterity sets that number to and in my case it's 49%.

and using 49% chance to hit as an example, whether the enemy has massive armor and it adjusts lower because of that, or no armor at all and it adjusts higher to that, you're character is still going to shoot at 49% chance to hit no matter what.

You're all taking the enemies adjustment and trying to say you're character has a different % and it doesn't. You're character has a single number that gets used no matter what. The game adjusts that number according to the enemy being shot, but the number itself always remains the same.

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 10:24 PM.
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A chest or a door differ from an enemy in as much as they cannot dodge your attacks. In other words, they do not have a defence rating.

To summarise how the chance to hit for ranged weapons is calculated:

Your dexterity influences your offence rating. An enemy has a defence rating (which is indirectly connected to the enemy's level). The ideal (!) chance to hit is calculated based on these two values.

Do not ask me the exact formula, but I think this would be something very simple like "Offence rating - defence rating".

This is your ideal chance to hit when your ranger is very close to the enemy. When your ranger moves away from the enemy, then the chance to hit starts to decrease - the rate of this decrease is 1% every 0.2 m. In order to counteract this reduction you have to improve your accuracy - which is influenced by the perception attribute.

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tx3000 Offline OP
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My dex determines the % to hit and that number is locked in place it does not change for any reason until you change your dexterity.

The game adjusting 49% to the enemies status, isn't changing the 49% in the slightest, it's only changing how the 49% gets applied.

In my case a 49% chance to hit an enemy gets fired out every shot, the game then takes the 49% and adjusts it accordingly, but the shot is still a fixed number of 49%.

It's like engraving an arrow with the letter A on it. When it's fired from the bow, nothing will change that A unless you manually change it.

So in comparison, the letter A is set in the arrow but yet people are saying that the letter A gets changed to a D when being fired, just because an enemy is level 50 or has some sick armor or status or no armor or status.

The arrow is going to remain with an A on it no matter what.

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 10:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by tx3000
WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE AL NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. AN ENEMIES STATS ARE ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT YOUR CHARACTERS CAPABILITIES ARE.

An archer's chance to hit is set by it's dexterity. An enemy that has fortified armor while being wet has nothing to do with the 49% chance to hit my character has that was set by my characters dexterity.

That CHANCE TO HIT number is going to read 49% no matter what status the enemy does or does not have. I am still going to be shooting at a 49% chance to hit WHEN I FIRE THAT ARROW because that is what my chance to hit is.



You behave like a spoiled, 12-year old brat. Repeating the same single argument over and over again without addressing other people's comments disqualifies you - or marks you as a troll.

I understand that you cannot grasp that many factors affect your chance to hit something as an archer:

- Your character's dexterity
- Your opponent's dexterity and armor rating
- Your perception, affecting accuracy (or in other words, precision) over distance
- Environment (smoke etc.)
- A lot of other factors that we may not be aware of

Sorry that this is too complicated for you.

Oh, btw: *** PLONK **** for your lack of ability to discuss something like an adult.

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Originally Posted by recluce
I understand that you cannot grasp that many factors affect your chance to hit something as an archer:

- Your character's dexterity
- Your opponent's dexterity and armor rating
- Your perception, affecting accuracy (or in other words, precision) over distance
- Environment (smoke etc.)
- A lot of other factors that we may not be aware of


If you have a 49% chance to hit a target, whether you attack an enemy with tons or armor or no armor at all, you're still attacking the target with a 49% chance with every attack you do no matter what. Except it's an adjusted 49% chance to hit.

Read above for what I said.

Last edited by tx3000; 05/08/14 10:51 PM.
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Okay so let's see.

Pirate Bowman Level 6, 14.1 meters away
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 7 - 68% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 12 - 84% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 7 - 76% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 12 - 92% chance to hit

So above the biggest adjust came from Perception, those 5 points made me 18% more likely to hit. Where Dex only made me 8% more likely to hit.

Pontius Pirate, Level 6, 2.5 meters away
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 7 - 87% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 12 - 87% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 7 - 100% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 12 - 100% chance to hit

As he's so close to me my guess is that perception / accuracy doesn't play a role, Dex does possibly so you outmaneuver his dodges. I guess I should add some further tests with reducing Dex and Perception.

I have screen shots available if you want them.

I'm using a Hexing Old Hazel Flat Bow of Disabling
Item level 4
Piercing 33-58 damage
Fire 5-8
Max Range 26m

Last edited by tarasis; 05/08/14 11:08 PM.
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A proof that chance to hit is reduced by the distance (which is influenced by the accuracy which in turn is linked to accuracy):

Character very close to the enemy: Chance to hit 46 %

[img]http://imgur.com/Bflwb1g[/img]

Same fight, character farther away from the enemy: Chance to hit 31 %

[img]http://imgur.com/zyTuOhL[/img]

I have also included the character sheet in every image as a prove that the character stats are the same both times.

As a side note: Same fight, chance to hit of a warrior with strength 13 is 52 %

[img] http://imgur.com/oZRO03t [/img]


Last edited by Elwyn; 05/08/14 10:54 PM.
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"Why does archery suck so bad?"

It doesn't.

I'd happily answer and debate all the points made here. However, the OP's statements are full of opinions and fallacies, and he makes no attempt to put anything in context or answer simple questions from people trying to help him. Like trying to reason with a creationist, helping this guy is just not possible.

Have a nice day.

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@Elywyn
Sorry to tell you this, but you still attacked with the same exact % chance to hit every single time you attacked. What you're seeing is an adjusted version of your % to attack.

Using 49% chance to hit as an example:
If you have a 49% chance to hit a target, whether you attack an enemy with tons or armor or no armor at all, you're still attacking the target with a 49% chance with every attack you do no matter what.

The adjusted number isn't changing the 49% chance to hit.

Read above for what I said.

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My screen shots: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgkyq6wruqvft35/Screenshots.zip
(On Dropbox as I've now left my comp to go to bed so I can't upload them to steam)

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