Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Help/Tips/Tricks Advanced Tips: How to Improve Your Melee Class.

Gentlemen,

I've been concerned with what I've been reading regarding the perceived underwhelming capacity of melee classes. And so, here's some ideas how to improve your own, because melee classes rock when done right. I'm talking, Metallica, or Gwar kind of rock--not Justin Bieber rock.


In no special order..




1. Shields: More Than Just Bug Blockers!

Make SURE you use your shield on the anvil to improve the blocking percentage. Once that's up, a few points into shield skill, and you're, minimum, blocking 35-50%. Now add elemental essences, all 4. The % will increase as you level. Kapish? good.

2. How do you Spella-mi-fy...Diversify?

Spells. You must use spells. Get ahold of yourself man!

Invest 1 point into Witchcraft, 1 into Scoundrel. And guys, lets face it--we're *guys*, we're BORN with 1 point into Scoundrel.

It's pretty simple--you really don't need much more than this.
Tank Spell 1: Fast Track: Haste, for melee! wee!
Tank Spell 2: Oath of Destruction (50% more damage! Hulk smash!)
Tank Spell 3: Cloak and Dagger (oh, look, you're teleporting around Matrix style!) (later on, Phoenix Dive..)
Tank Spell 4: Charming Touch. (scoundrel)--oh look at that, he doesn't want to punch you any more!
Tank Spell 5: Blind: Ohhh that's right, 100% hit rate, wassup now 4 eyes!

3. Resist the Force Luke!

You basically need 100% resistance to ALL things. Minimum. You heard me. This is actually pretty easily done. You'll need as many elemental essences as you can find. Buy every one you ever see. Don't look at me like that.

Now, with those essences, add them to armor. Add them to your 1. Shield (4x) 2. Chest Amor (4x) 3. Bracers (4x) 4. Sarong (4x) and 5. Belt (4x). The effect will scale with the level of the item. By FAR, the most important resistance is fire.

You will HEAL with resistances over 100%. That means, standing in lava, you are invincible, like Michael Jackson. #crotch grab!

4. We Need a Tank! Stat!

Stats: You don't need a lot of Str. Just enough to equip your gear. Constitution and Speed are the primary attributes for you. Constitution will give you tons of action points (way over 20), and Speed will make sure that each turn, you get that 20. Perception: forget about it. Intelligence: Way more important than it seems. Get it to 7-8 and you can equip a higher level Sarong, which then adds lots more resistances (and further intelligence). Try to balance speed and constitution, but constitution is the most important. Think about the US constitution, pretty important right? That important.

5. Craft Your Own Macaroni!

You really don't need much crafted gear. But some are noteworthy: Sword of planets. Every level, make a new one. It's the only weapon with elemental resistances (not just a little, but a ton). Most importantly with crafting and your tank: Make sure all your armor gets 1. put on the anvil to remove the movement penalty. And 2. Add Plate scraps to increase the armor rating.

Make sure for any weapon you use regularly, add a Tormented Soul +2str, +2 dex. You the man now dawg!

Lastly, add some paint-on glitter to your shield, tell people it's Gucci. It's got a stunning effect.

6. We've Got to Moove it Moove it!

Movement bonus is highly underrated! I didn't realize this until later in the game. I can move 6 meters with 1 action point. That means I'm like the Terminator chasing cars in the movie. I try to make sure I put on this glare that says "I'm a lunatic" when I do. Count how many action points you lose because of movement--it's probably worth 6 attacks in any given fight. So, movement translates to damage. hhmmm....never thought about that 'eh? Look for shields and armor with movement bonuses. Rings can provide great boosts as well.

7. Maad Skillz!
Let's talk about skills. Now go to your significant other, and tell them "If I had a star for every time you brightened my day, why, ..I'd have a galaxy in my hand."

Ok, back to skills: The only "5" you want, is Man at Arms. Then you get the talent "Weather the Storm". The rest? meh! Most importantly, you'll be FAR FAR more effective in getting many skills to 3 than one skill to 5. So body building and Willpower--get those to 1 1, then 2 2, then 3 3. Do NOT get any skill to 5 (except Man at Arms) until later on. Most of the equipment you have will improve most of those skills by 1 or 2.

Leadership ROCKS, and you'll need two characters with it. Get it to 3--and your damage, critical hit, chance to hit--goes WAY up. Armor Specialist: not that important, low priority. With blocking rates at 80%, if you get hit for 10 more damage, and you have 3000hp--the points could be better spent elsewhere.

Don't race to get 5 points into anything, or 4 even (except for man at arms).

8. I'm hitt'n on 'em, But no Results!

I know, you're a player--you've got mad skillz--but sometimes 'no money, no funny hunny!'. That's life. Sooo... I've seen people complaining that they're trying, but they can't hit their target. Here's the deal: "Trying" is loser talk. A respectable tank gets results. So let's talk results.

1. Blind: 100% hit rate. (blind is rarely resisted)
2. Knocked down: 100% hit rate.
3. Lower Resistances: Much easier to hit.
4. Precision Stance: major boost to improve your hit rate.

You really don't need more than that. You funny now!

9. Lethal Weapons!

Alright--so, you have the 2h vs 1h argument. Let's end this argument: 1h+ shield is the answer. 3ap single handed weapons. Now, add Tenebrium, or earlier on, Fire. Many weapons you can add several effects (say, fire + poison). Make sure to sharpen the weapon to increase the damage (always), (weapons with edges, not a hammer, duh, never sharpen a hammer). Don't forget about big strong 2h though. Carry one, and before you use flurry 1. Equip 2h weapon. 2. Oath of destruction. 3. Lower their resistances. 4. Hulk Smash. You will annihilate them.



Okay, so you've got 9 items there. With those 9 items, your tank will be a super hero, you'll survive basically everything, and the ladies will throw themselves at you. But they won't hit you, because you've got a shield. That's right, who's yo daddy!

Amen.


Any questions, feel free!

+ 1

super duper good advice mate.

Good advice for making a walking tank.
But why make a walking tank when you can make a walking nuclear bomb?

Get Bully.
Equip a 2-hander. Preferably a scythe. Every single Man At Arms ability is more efficient when you're using a 2-hander, since damage scales off of weapon.
If you craft a weapon, always craft an axe. Axes > Swords.
Improve your plate armor and craft some boots for that delicious nutritious movement speed boost. Be sure to put nails on your adidas - nobody wants to be slip sliding around in the middle of a battle.
Add rubies to your equipment and you will become immune to everything but physical damage.
Add metal scraps to your armor and you will become immune to physical damage.
Get Bully.

Get a mage to back you up. Mages make great sidekicks. Put Leadership on the mage - they don't need bonus to attack or crit or anything anyway.

What to do when someone it's go time:
1. Nullify Resistance
2. Battering Ram
3. Whirlwind
The battle should be over, but in case it isn't here's what to do next.
4. Mage casts Mass Slow
5. Mage casts Oath of Desecration on Warrior
6. Mage casts Wildfire on Warrior
7. Warrior eliminates every remaining enemy with extreme prejudice.

Great posts!

With kind regards,

Rashar.

Great advice in all points, though i don't agree entirely with point 2.

Chance to hit with status effects (Blind, Knockdown, etc.) is decreased by opponent's Willpower and Bodybuilding and they are boosted by your primary stat for that skill (str for man-at-arms, int for spells and dex for ranged and rogues skills), so if your chance to hit is 100% and opponent has Bodybuilding 4, chance goes to 60%).

Since you're not boosting int much, your Blind will probably have a mediocre chance to hit, specially from Luculla Forest onward (you will note by the resist checks made by your opponents that they have a rather higher defense than enemies in Cyseal), making Blind useless on a non-mage. It will probably still work during Cyseal, but afterwards when opponents start to get tougher in defenses, it will stop work far less often.

Oath of Desecration is awesome. But i'd rather swing one extra time with my 1-handed. I believe It's preferable to have someone else use oath on you, specially if that someone acts before you do.

Charming Touch and Cloak and Dagger are kinda useless for a warrior. Specially because your dex is probably crappy 7 (5, but boosted by your tormented soul to 7), so chance to hit is crappy and because cloak and dagger costs a crapload of ap, you WILL have to invest more points into Scoundrel, more points that are not needed.

Now that i explained why i don't think your spell selection is that good, I think should provide some alternatives, so here it goes:

All Man-at-Arms abilites can be useful (except Phoenix Dive). But mainly Battering Ram, Crushing Fist, Dust Devil, Whirlwind, Cure Wounds, Power and Precision stance and later, Rage.

Any shield spell you can get will reduce the load on your mages, which will be free to keep casting cc and damage spells.

Aerotheurge, either 3 or 5. You can go either with 3 to use: Teleportation, Invisibility, Become Air, Shocking Touch and Lightning Strike and 2 from your choice, or go all the way to 5 to get Lightning Rod that gives you immunity to Stun (Immunity to Air damage from high resistances doesn't give you immunity to stun). If you got to Air 5, maybe get Air Shield (I didn't bother as Jahan and my friend had all shield spells between the two of them)

Teleportation lets you select who you want to crush first from afar or put a high damage enemy far away WHILE DEALING DAMAGE, it's damage is also not Air, it's crushing damage.

Invisibility is mainly used to steal stuff or to get a better position before combat (unchain character, turn invisible, go to target, start combat, dust devil -> whirlwind =P).

Become Air is the real tanking spell. It cuts all physical damage by half. Some enemies will try to avoid you if you have high armor and their prospective damage is ridiculous, other enemies will jus hit you and waste their turn causing 15-20 damage (when your health pool is 800+).

Shocking Touch is evil. Usually i start combat by using Battering Ram + Shocking Touch, and then next turn I Rage + Flurry my target to death.

Lightning Strike is deliciously fun, Lower Resistances + Lightning Strike during Rain has a very nice chance to stun lots of people. You just need to master how to use it.

Geomancy 1. You can get Midnight Oil, Summon Spider (for the flanking bonus) and either Fortify or Bless (to be honest, you don't need both).

Midnight Oil is fantastic. It slows, benefiting a warrior with the Bully Talent and it also sets the combo to use a fire spell. Finally, if you have more than 120% fire resist and a piece of equipment that gives immunity to slow, you can use the oil when you're surrounded by enemies and blast all your fire spells on your warrior. He will heal even if he gets burning (-20 fire resist) and it will make all opponents slowed and taking fire damage (probably burning too).

Summon Spider is a decent summon. It has a fairly high HP and evade so you can use it to set up your attacks better by flanking. It's specially useful if Madora is your only melee character.

Bless or Fortify are useful buffs. But they should be in mages, not a melee character, however if you got one slot, why not get one? If by any chance you do a mistake or a rogue accidently gets into a bad position, you can give them fortify to help mitigate the damage they will receive.

Hydrosophist and Pyrokinetic have pretty good spells, but most of them would be more useful in mages, still if you wanna go "Paladin", Minor Heal and Slow Current, and if you wanna go "Blackguard", you can always get Wildfire (for haste) and Blaze (to detonate barrels, of course).

I think we could do a review on talents (Except Leech + Comeback kid, which is ridiculous)

I never did any resistances upgrades until I was ready for the final battle. Just never found enough of those things to use all the time and I wanted to make sure I had all the resistances I could for the end boss. Armor just changes why too much while I'm leveling up from loot finds so I didn't want to upgrade that stuff other than just non-resistance upgrades.

LeBurns has a great point, save your rubies for items that you will never change.

In my coop game Jahan is practically made of rubies (he is carrying about 10-12) and i used only 1 in my sarong (which i don't intend to change anymore) so far.

Talent wise depending on the difficulty you play where some talents might be a bit more "mandatory" then others there are a few ways to go, I will take your suggestion into account and will not include leech into any build, also I will leave out zombie.

Easy/Normal difficulty with lonewolf

Level 01: Lone wolf, Bully
Level 03: Wait with spending talent untill you hit level 5 and take Glass Cannon.
Level 07: Wait with spending talent untill you have 5 ranks Man-at-arms and then take Weather the Storm.
Level 11: Picture of health deserves an honorable mention, but probably better to let the demon eat all your talents from here on out and grab extra attribute points.
Level 15,19,23: See level 11

Easy/Normal difficulty without lonewolf

Level 01: Bully, Picture of health (requires Man-at-arms rank 2)
Level 03: Wait with spending talent untill you hit level 5 and take Glass Cannon.
Level 07: Wait with spending talent untill you have 5 ranks Man-at-arms and then take Weather the Storm.
Level 11: Let the demon eat all your talents from here on out and grab extra attribute points.
Level 15,19,23: See level 11

Hard difficulty with lonewolf

Level 01: Lone wolf, Picture of health (requires Man-at-arms rank 2)
Level 03: Wait with spending talent untill you hit level 5 and take Glass Cannon.
Level 07: Wait with spending talent untill you have 5 ranks Man-at-arms and then take Weather the Storm.
Level 11: Bully, however letting the demon eat this talent is probably fine too.
Level 15,19,23: Let the demon eat all your talents from here on out and grab extra attribute points or max out willpower and bodybuilding when trading your talents for ability points.

Hard difficulty without lonewolf

Level 01: Picture of health (requires Man-at-arms rank 2), Bully
Level 03: Just save it untill you enough vitality so that Glass Cannon is not a huge disadvantage anymore.
Level 07: Wait with spending talent untill you have 5 ranks Man-at-arms and then take Weather the Storm.
Level 11,15,19,23: Let the demon eat all your talents from here on out and grab extra attribute points or max out willpower and bodybuilding when trading your talents for ability points.

Honorable mention goes to Thick Skin however 5+Man-at-armsx2 is 15 armor at best. (I never took this talent as for me I rather have 10 ability points or 2 attribute points.)

As you can see, I don't give talents much respect as 90% of the ones we have are just bad imo. I take into account if I rather have my talent or 2 attribute points and not many talents will surpass the +2 attributes or the 10 ability points for that matter.

I did leave out leech because it was suggested and I did leave out zombie because I personally just don't like that talent. (Even though there is no visual drawback when you take that talent, the idea of playing a zombie is a just a nay nay for me.)

So to sum it all from my perspective the most talents you ever need as a melee is 5 and you will be immortal, Lonewolf, leech, glass cannon, weather the storm, and for icing on the cake: picture of health. Personally if you take the leech route I would drop bully because you will start level 1 with leech, lone wolf and if you take that into consideration it would mean you pick up bully level 11+ I rather have +2 attributes or 10 ability points. You can ofcourse add zombie into the mix for more opness but eventually you will have poison resistance 150%+ so once again I rather have the demon eat my talent then using it.

Conclusion: without the demon being able to eat talents, I would probably like some talents better.

With kind regards,

Rashar.

Good ideas!

Dirigible,

"Get Bully".

Agreed. Bully is fantastic. I didn't include talent choices on the list.

I also didn't include "how to play with the rest of your team", since..it would be quite a bit more writing, and depend on the level of each character, enemies, location, weather, context..etc.

Kurausu,

Good notes! A lot of the advice here is heavily level dependent. Towards the end game, my int was 11 I think--so it really wasn't that bad. Blind takes so little AP that even without it (mage almost always cast it) it's worth having. All of my team had mid-level int. (9-11).

"Charming Touch and Cloak and Dagger are kinda useless for a warrior."

Oh contraire!

Typically, I would have the mage cast Oath of Desecration (but everyone had it), rather than the tank itself. Charming touch was great, and effective, the entire game. My dex is actually pretty high (10-12), and Cloak and Dagger was *fantastic* to use, it's an instant teleport across the screen that used less AP than moving there. It was also super useful outside of fighting. All of this for 1 skill point, and could be used at level 1.

Remember that your success with a spell isn't dependent entirely simply on your Dex/str/int--but those stats relative to the skill level of the spell. So, since they're low level spells--they all got pretty heavy bonuses, not penalties. (Your primary stat - skill level requirement determines the +- bonus by 10% per point)

With the rest of the Man at Arms--I wrote it as 'these are the things you're probably missing' rather than 'this is the comprehensive path'. I presume any tank is using the entire line of man at arms skills, but may not have been using the above mentioned.


Re: Aerothurge.
Some good stuff there. Invisibility is skill level 8, Lightning Strike is 7--and a tank won't have 8-10 Int until later in the game. Teleport is a great idea. Notably, damage is also dependent on weight..so..try teleporting a heavy object. Become air: also great idea.

Re: Lightning Spell
I wasn't the biggest fan of Lightning, because it was constantly raining out, and causing too much collateral issues.

re: Summoning
I never summoned anything because I thought it was cheap, and fights were easy enough without them.


I think in general, those who think the tank are underpowered, or not effective--are not using spells much to their advantage. A little tweaking..and voila! Death Tank!

-e