Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Nov 2003
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2003
Originally Posted by Lar_q
We're alive...
Sounds like the Zombie talent isn't seeing enough use at Larian HQ... laugh

Given Larian's intent to offer long-term support (and presumably lots more patches), a beta series of patches as others have suggested ("use at your own risk, not fully tested, etc") may be the best way of squaring the circle and keeping most people here happy.

Take a page from the Infinity Engine games and add an Override folder which is then used as the first source for any data files. Beta patches can be implemented as zip files that go into Override (allowing for compatibility with Steam and GOG releases) and "official" patches then only need to clear that folder to "de-beta" an install.

Joined: Jul 2014
F
stranger
Offline
stranger
F
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by fxluk
I know this is a small studio but now I think that this fix is not a priority for them and that makes me kinda frustrated.

FWIW, from Larian's twitter, 4 hours ago: "A feature that fixes this is in testing, and *should* ship next week".


Thanks for the info.

Joined: Jul 2014
A
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
A
Joined: Jul 2014
I love people cheering Larian due to their independancy and then complain about Larian for their lack of everything... They are a smaller team than major companies so be patient.

And still I find them very reactive!

Keep up the good work and thanks for the ongoing support on D:OS!

Joined: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
R
member
Offline
member
R
Joined: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Just wanted to say that I am happy to see the Larian team reply so fast and I am eagerly awaiting the changes/hotfixes.

With kind regards,

Rashar.

Joined: Jul 2014
T
tar Offline
stranger
Offline
stranger
T
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by someguy216
Yes good work with latest patch but i do partly agree with the op it would be nicer for larian to communicate with their fans abit more although I love this game there seems to be a lack of communication between fans and devs in this game.


+1

there is a forum called latest news. use it. even if you just give one-liners like "patch out (+ changelog)" or "we are working on issues", ppl would very much appreciate it!

Joined: Aug 2014
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Aug 2014
From Larian's post above, it really seems like the resist change was not because the designers felt strongly, but more that they believed their players wanted that change. Which means the vocal "I want a harder game zomg" minority got to ruin some fun builds for everyone else. Which is disappointing, hopefully they don't do that again. As someone who only got the game ~3 weeks ago and hasn't had time to play through it all the way even once, these disruptive patches are really aggravating. My 1st game(s) where I was trying out different main character builds and compensating with henchman got shot to pieces when you could no longer customize a henchmen effectively. So then I know to build a party around assuming Jehan and Madora and get rolling again, just in time for another fundamental change. Mods aren't really an answer since I'd have to start over yet again, and frankly I haven't seen a mod work right yet (the "buy all skillbooks" mod resulted in starting abilities being corrupted, the "4 player" mod seemed awesome, except with it enabled quicksave doesn't work). It's incredibly annoying and really diminishes what otherwise is a great game. The least Larian could do is push such changes behind the difficulty settings or put it out as a Steam Beta or something rather than continually changing the rules as we go. Or even just let the rules stay the same within a game save would be fine. But this is just plain aggravating.

Joined: Jul 2013
E
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
E
Joined: Jul 2013
Ultimately it's hard to say what Larian's thoughts behind it really was, but I got the impression that they also intended for the late game to be more challenging. So it might just as well be the case that they capped the resistances to keep the intended (by them) challenge.

And really, you can still do builds around high resistances, only now you need some potions and/or spells.

Joined: Jul 2014
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2014
Originally Posted by Skryia
From Larian's post above, it really seems like the resist change was not because the designers felt strongly, but more that they believed their players wanted that change. Which means the vocal "I want a harder game zomg" minority got to ruin some fun builds for everyone else.


You make it sound like Larian is only taking on player feedback under some sort of duress.

The devs have stated repeatedly how helpful the beta feedback was for them in making the game what it is. They've also stated a few times I think that they want a difficult game -- not obnoxiusly hardcore, just always on the challenging side of approachable. The latter half of the game did not go that way. The reality is that, post-release, it's not a difficult game at all if you build your character with common sense.

For the sake of adding some words from the horse's mouth (no offense intended), here are a few quotes from Swen in a PC Gamer interview:

Interview published 9th July.

Quote
PCG: What kind of things are you looking at in the big update?

Vincke: We basically have two types of things. We're doing hotfixes where we see problems that we can fix right away for people, and then the patch will contain some extra content. Balancing fixes.

Quote
PCG: Divinity was a Kickstarter project. Then it was also a long-running Early Access game, where people could jump in, play the beta, obviously gave you a lot of feedback. How would you rate the process of making a game with that much community involvement?

Vincke: Tough but worth it. It puts an enormous amount of pressure on you because it's a lot of people who are constantly giving you opinion, but it's worth its weight in gold and it allows you to rise above yourself as a small developer like we are. It would have been impossible for us to make the game that it is now without our community, for sure, so in that sense it's a really cool development, actually.

If you would look through the tracks of the history of the development of this game, especially on the forums there's a big beta section where you can find a lot of it. You will literally see a lot of things taking shape, and being streamlined and more focused as a result of community feedback.

It's not always the best thing for your ego, that's for sure. If you listen to them you really get, literally, a goldmine, and then it's just a question of picking the right things, because obviously there's a lot of contradiction also that you have to filter through, but it's worth it. The patience of these people is enormous.

Quote
Vincke: [...] These are gamers, right? So they can be very, let's say, vocal. If you can manage to deal with that your game becomes a lot better. The list of things that they've helped us make better is just gigantic. It's really large. We still have a list of thousands of things that we would have to do for them that we never managed to do, because again there's just so much suggestions, but it's really cool.

I get the impression Larian know what they're doing when wading through our feedback. If a change is made, I trust it's because they believed it to be a Good Thing To Do, y'know, in their own game.

Last edited by Noaloha; 23/08/14 10:34 PM.

Escape From Smalcatraz: Steam/Nexus. Forum thread.
Joined: Aug 2014
S
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by El Zoido
And really, you can still do builds around high resistances, only now you need some potions and/or spells.


Sure. Except that most builds that involving owning items cap out fairly early, making further investment, and indeed many previously interesting character options like the Man-At-Arms talent or crafting with rubies, worthless.

Perhaps Larian should introduce new, stronger content, rather than limiting player options.

Last edited by strider24seven; 23/08/14 10:33 PM.
Joined: Aug 2014
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Quote
We introduced the cap and increased the difficulty near the ending somewhat because we saw a lot of people complain the game became too easy. The common pattern among the character builds we received from those people was that they had several of their resistances over 100%. To be fair, we're not too big fans of caps either, but introducing it seemed the lesser of a few possible evils.


Right there, he pretty much states "well, we aren't crazy about changing this, but we got a lot of complaints and couldn't think of anything better to do". His statement is not at all what I'd expect if the design really wanted to rule out immunity to elements. And so many skills and talents only make sense if it is possible to permanently ignore an element (the Pyromancy PBAoE's, the mage affinity talents, etc.). And there are any number of ways they could have made the changes such that people already mid-game aren't getting the shaft. I'm sure your next bit of advice will be to crack out a saved game editor and re-spec my party rather than starting over yet again (which doesn't work as there only seem to be PC versions of the tools).

Joined: Jul 2014
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2014
Nah, I'm not trying to defend the impact these balance changes are having on current game players. My argument here is that I think the devs are implementing changes based on player feedback because they want their game to be better. More of my thoughts on this specific matter are in this post. I have no idea what the reality of the situation is on the dev's side. I'm sure they don't *want* to inconvenience players who are currently in the middle of a playthrough, so I'm left with assuming that there are limitations somewhere. The only other alternatives are (1) that the devs forgot that this will effect current playthroughs, or (2) they don't really give much of a shit. I'm not willing to make either of those two assumptions though, I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt.

My long view on all this is that the game will eventually find a nice point of balance. Soft-capping the resistance in a vacuum empty of other associated adjustments was of questionable execution. But, as mentioned, it's eventually supposed to exist within a wider balance pass.

Again, I'm not discussing this in defence of how Larian are going about it, I'm just strongly of the opinion (assumption?) that they wouldn't be doing these passes if they didn't think them worthwhile. I don't think we're holding knives at their throat on this, nor do I think we're bullying them behind the bike sheds until they do our homework for us.

Last edited by Noaloha; 23/08/14 11:20 PM.

Escape From Smalcatraz: Steam/Nexus. Forum thread.
Joined: Jan 2011
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
Originally Posted by Skryia
From Larian's post above, it really seems like the resist change was not because the designers felt strongly, but more that they believed their players wanted that change. Which means the vocal "I want a harder game zomg" minority got to ruin some fun builds for everyone else.


That is crap. I'm not going to venture to say who the minority or majority is. There were many thinking the game was too easy. We don't know if there are more it was too easy vs I want massive resistance to the point it heals group. We don't know that.

The game on easy imo either way is just that, easy. And if there is a group that wants to play hard, they should have that to. Imo the resistances the way it were, used as healing and not just blocking damage, to the level it was, I really can't believe people thought that was normal. What other games do you play that have that mechanic?

Last edited by Horrorscope; 23/08/14 11:22 PM.
Joined: Aug 2014
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Aug 2014
sincere suggestion to Larian: discern pvp minded player opinions.

"100+ resist healing too OP!!!"...."ok, how about you don't pump them over 100+?"

"Void Dragon is too vulnerable to stun, blind, and knockdown"..."ok, maybe we'll pump up its bodybuilding and willpower, or even add some more immunity at hard difficulty."

Last edited by teardropmina; 23/08/14 11:32 PM.
Joined: Aug 2014
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Quote
Imo the resistances the way it were, used as healing and not just blocking damage, to the level it was, I really can't believe people thought that was normal. What other games do you play that have that mechanic?

Who said it was "normal"? What does that have to do with anything? Look at the talents and skills, they clearly have a very different take on what roles/classes/levels than other games, why should the elemental system surprise us? And from their own statements, they weren't impressed with the idea of changing that but did that because they thought players wanted it. And they botched it by doing it incompletely (broken Zombie) and without regard to people trying to get through a play-through. If they had made those changes apply to Hard mode, no one would be caring right now.

Joined: Mar 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2014
Originally Posted by Skryia
Quote
We introduced the cap and increased the difficulty near the ending somewhat because we saw a lot of people complain the game became too easy. The common pattern among the character builds we received from those people was that they had several of their resistances over 100%. To be fair, we're not too big fans of caps either, but introducing it seemed the lesser of a few possible evils.


[quote]Right there, he pretty much states "well, we aren't crazy about changing this,

Stop fabricating your own interpretations and claiming that is what someone else had said or is thinking.



Quote
but we got a lot of complaints and couldn't think of anything better to do".

is this some sort of self deprecating sarcastic joke?

you better hope it is.


Quote

His statement is not at all

his statement?

you mean your statement, right? the one quoted just above, the one you literally invented and posted yourself.


Quote

what I'd expect if the design really wanted to rule out immunity to elements.


ruling out immunity to elements?

from which discussion did that one come from?

the one spinning in your head in some imaginary world completely out of touch with reality?

they removed 100% resistance to some element to be too easily achievable, nothing else. and you still can get it by drinking a potion or using spells which are both extremely plentiful.

while your resistances are not removed at all, because you can have them at 95%.


Quote
And there are any number of ways they could have made the changes such that people already mid-game aren't getting the shaft.

nobody is getting a shaft. there is no "people", its only you and your nonsensical posts made out of your own invented ridiculous brain farts.

shaft is being 95% resistant to some element? thats the "shaft"?

and then drinking a potion or using a spell to go over 100?



Quote

I'm sure your next bit of advice will be to crack out a saved game editor and re-spec my party rather than starting over yet again (which doesn't work as there only seem to be PC versions of the tools).

youre sure because you are telepathic, right?

of course, that doesnt have anything to do with anything even remotely real and nobody is ever going to say that to you or even much care.


because you can just continue playing.



Last edited by Hiver; 24/08/14 07:30 AM.
Joined: Aug 2014
S
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Hiver
Originally Posted by Skryia
Quote
We introduced the cap and increased the difficulty near the ending somewhat because we saw a lot of people complain the game became too easy. The common pattern among the character builds we received from those people was that they had several of their resistances over 100%. To be fair, we're not too big fans of caps either, but introducing it seemed the lesser of a few possible evils.


[quote]Right there, he pretty much states "well, we aren't crazy about changing this,

Stop fabricating your own interpretations and claiming that is what someone else had said or is thinking.



Quote
but we got a lot of complaints and couldn't think of anything better to do".

is this some sort of self deprecating sarcastic joke?

you better hope it is.


Quote

His statement is not at all

his statement?

you mean your statement, right? the one quoted just above, the one you literally invented and posted yourself.


Quote

what I'd expect if the design really wanted to rule out immunity to elements.


ruling out immunity to elements?

from which discussion did that one come from?

the one spinning in your head in some imaginary world completely out of touch with reality?

they removed 100% resistance to some element to be too easily achievable, nothing else. and you still can get it by drinking a potion or using spells which are both extremely plentiful.

while your resistances are not removed at all, because you can have them at 95%.


Quote
And there are any number of ways they could have made the changes such that people already mid-game aren't getting the shaft.

nobody is getting a shaft. there is no "people", its only you and your nonsensical posts made out of your own invented ridiculous brain farts.

shaft is being 95% resistant to some element? thats the "shaft"?

and then drinking a potion or using a spell to go over 100?



Quote

I'm sure your next bit of advice will be to crack out a saved game editor and re-spec my party rather than starting over yet again (which doesn't work as there only seem to be PC versions of the tools).

youre sure because you are telepathic, right?

of course, that doesnt have anything to do with anything even remotely real and nobody is ever going to say that to you or even much care.


because you can just continue playing.




I believe he is referring to the many players (myself included) that have one or more savegames in which they focused on boosting the resists of one or more characters in order to achieve a desired effect, often sinking many hours into doing so, only to have it snatched away by a knee-jerk reaction from Larian in response to those screaming for Larian to limit their gameplay.

Or at least that's what I think he's talking about.

Joined: Mar 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2014
yes, pretty much the same.

the same overblown, spoiled, pathetic, whining, invented and laughable accusations about supposed Larian motives you just repeated.


Joined: Aug 2014
H
stranger
Offline
stranger
H
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Hiver
yes, pretty much the same.

the same overblown, spoiled, pathetic, whining, invented and laughable accusations about supposed Larian motives you just repeated.



How did this guy make it to 700+ posts acting like such a jackass douchebag?

Hiver, do you post on Steam forums with the name Dorok? I swear you guys could be twins if you do not.

Joined: Aug 2014
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Read the post from Lar_q on the 1st page of the thread. My quotes were cut'n'pasted straight from that without alteration, Hiver.

And given that the games doesn't give you a way to respec until pretty late, and using it can cost you skill books you'll never be able to find again, having your build destroyed by a careless patch really is quite annoying. All they had to do was apply their change to hard mode and I would have kept playing along on normal and cared about the resist nerf. I already had to restart thanks to henchmen getting a radical change in implementation a couple of days into my 1st game, it really gets old.

Joined: Mar 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2014
Ah, the old trickl of just repeating previously stated moronity in the hope that this time it will work.

Originally Posted by Skryia
Read the post from Lar_q on the 1st page of the thread. My quotes were cut'n'pasted straight from that without alteration, Hiver.


Without alteration? Guess i have to repeat what i already wrote again since im talking to someone who cant understand sentences unless they are repeated.

You quoted this:

Quote
We introduced the cap and increased the difficulty near the ending somewhat because we saw a lot of people complain the game became too easy. The common pattern among the character builds we received from those people was that they had several of their resistances over 100%. To be fair, we're not too big fans of caps either, but introducing it seemed the lesser of a few possible evils.


and then claimed it actually means this:

Quote
Right there, he pretty much states "well, we aren't crazy about changing this, but we got a lot of complaints and couldn't think of anything better to do". His statement is not at all what I'd expect if the design really wanted to rule out immunity to elements -


- in the very next sentence and thats not alteration?

Is that how things work in the imaginary world of yours? You just make different baseless claims and make ludicrous laughable accusations because you felt bad about something else and then somehow, magically everyone are supposed to just accept that?

And not laugh at you?

:lol:

btw, nobody claimed you altered the dev quote. At all.
but i guess thats too complicated to comprehend since your brain just goes for whatever seems easier for you.


Originally Posted by herbancowboy
Originally Posted by Hiver
yes, pretty much the same.
the same overblown, spoiled, pathetic, whining, invented and laughable accusations about supposed Larian motives you just repeated.

How did this guy make it to 700+ posts acting like such a jackass douchebag?

by not being a cheap imbecile like you are.

by the way, you just tried to use a rather laughable personal attack to somehow answer my post which is literally objectively true.

and i wasnt even talking to you.


Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5