Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Aug 2014
G
Geezer Offline OP
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
G
Joined: Aug 2014
Hello and thanks for reading.

Though I've invested more than a few hours in D:OS, it's all been via the short intro and then lengthy exploration of the town of Cyseal...twice (I restarted). This is to say that I have no leveling and skill acquisition experience (the few skill points I've earned in town I've yet to allocate).

So, please help me get this straight:

- Having a maximum of, for example, seven Geomancer skills at ability level three means you can only know seven of that ability's skills, regardless of spell level (e.g., you could know three L1 spells and four L2 spells or one L1 spell, one L2 spell and five L3 spells, etc...any combination adding up to seven).

- This maximum skill/spell restriction means you'll very likely have to erase/unlearn some skills to make room for others. And then find another skill book if you want to learn an earlier spell you had but deleted for whatever reason.

- You can actually learn skills/spells that exceed your level, but at a certain point an action point penalty will begin to apply. So, an L3 Geomancer can learn spells up to skill level twelve without penalty (provided he finds and can afford the skill book)...and he can even cast spells beyond level twelve, but an AP penalty will be applied (and this increases the higher you go beyond your no-penalty skill level range).

Is that the only penalty for casting well above your level or is damage or fail chance impacted (or are these solely governed by your weapon, attribute score (INT, in the case of mage abilities), etc.)?

- This "use above your level, but at a penalty" appears to also apply to gear, like weapons.

So, am I right that the above system discourages experimentation? You can, for example, buy a Geomancer spell to try it, but you may have to erase an existing one to make room for it, and if you don't prefer it, you'll have to find a skill book for the one you had again.

Also, does skill strength scale? For example, could a level 1 Geomancer skill be usable for the entire game because it "keeps up" with your character as he/she levels (or gets better equipment, etc.)? Or will you want to replace early skills with ones gained at later levels because they'll always be more powerful?

If it works as above, I find this a little disappointing. I can certainly understand restricting the number of skills/spells you have active at any one time, so you don't have all-the-time access to your full repertoire. But it seems unfortunate to have to choose whether or not to keep or delete a skill/spell the usefulness of which may be quite circumstantial because it's taking up a valuable skill slot (like, say, a protection from poison spell...great against poison users, but useless when facing all fire damage foes).

EDIT: I just saw that reaching ability level five removes the max. skills limit, which is excellent. Of course, the earliest you could reach ability level five, assuming you invest just one point at character creation, but then invest every earned point from then on into that one skill...is level 11. That level of ability point concentration isn't terribly realistic. Leveling two abilities to L5 would require reaching L15. In other words, you'll be pretty far along before you're in a position to have unlimited skills for your chosen abilities. Of course, you could accelerate things some with the "All Skilled Up" feat...

Any clarity you can bring to how maximum skill limits and skill power/damage work would be very much appreciated.

Thanks so much,

Geezer





Last edited by Geezer; 28/08/14 04:05 PM.
Joined: Apr 2014
A
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
A
Joined: Apr 2014
You are essentially correct on all counts.

There are two penalties for casting "high-level" skills. One is an AP penalty, and this depends on ability (Pyro, Geo, etc) level. The other is a chance-to-fail penalty which depends on the primary attribute for the skill (so Int for spells, Dex for Marksman, and Str for Man At Arms).

For skills that apply damage that isn't tied to weapon damage (so basically all elemental + witchcraft spells, and all marksman skills), that damage increases with character level. So low-level skills are oftentimes still very useful late-game. Some lower level spells do have clear higher-level replacements that offer the same functionality but are more effective (flare -> burning blaze, blitz bolt -> lightning bolt, etc).

Joined: Aug 2014
G
Geezer Offline OP
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
G
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by aznricepuff
You are essentially correct on all counts.

There are two penalties for casting "high-level" skills. One is an AP penalty, and this depends on ability (Pyro, Geo, etc) level. The other is a chance-to-fail penalty which depends on the primary attribute for the skill (so Int for spells, Dex for Marksman, and Str for Man At Arms).

For skills that apply damage that isn't tied to weapon damage (so basically all elemental + witchcraft spells, and all marksman skills), that damage increases with character level. So low-level skills are oftentimes still very useful late-game. Some lower level spells do have clear higher-level replacements that offer the same functionality but are more effective (flare -> burning blaze, blitz bolt -> lightning bolt, etc).


aznricepuff, thanks for that excellent, clear and concise reply. That's precisely the info. I was looking for.

- Geezer

Joined: Apr 2013
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Apr 2013
Originally Posted by Geezer
- This maximum skill/spell restriction means you'll very likely have to erase/unlearn some skills to make room for others. And then find another skill book if you want to learn an earlier spell you had but deleted for whatever reason.


I just wanted to address this for you real quick. While I can't recall the name offhand, there is a mod that makes spell books permanent, so once read they do not disappear from your inventory. Using a mod like this would allow for more experimentation, if you wish.

Joined: Aug 2014
G
Geezer Offline OP
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
G
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Jito463
[quote=Geezer]-
I just wanted to address this for you real quick. While I can't recall the name offhand, there is a mod that makes spell books permanent, so once read they do not disappear from your inventory. Using a mod like this would allow for more experimentation, if you wish.


Sounds great. I'll check it out now.

- Geezer

Joined: Mar 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2014
The thing with spells is that there arent that many of them altogether. And out of those only some are really useful.

So... being limited to 3 or 5 spells isnt that of a problem, really.
All the info one needs to see which spell is what and how useful it might be is contained in the spells in-game descriptions.

It isnt the best possible thing to have, true, but it is the consequence of adjusting gameplay to support focus builds versus hybrid builds and vice-versa that was going on back and forth during the last stages of the beta.

I mentioned that in replies to your previous threads, geezer.

Larian tried to find a balance between the two but i feel they ended up with a system that is still slightly leaning towards focus single class builds rather then classless builds or hybrids. This includes the character creation presentation, companions, addition of henchmen and other more mechanically related things.


Another thing, im not sure if this was changed in the latest patches but previously... you could not use a spell that is restricted to a level higher then you are.

So, while you are level 5, you could not learn or use spells that were locked to level 7, or 10. Regardless of how many skill points you invested in that specific magic.
Unlike weapons, which you could use - with a penalty.



Joined: Jul 2014
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2014
I do have another question towards ability levels in skills:
where for example is a point in having 5 levels in scoundrel other than having unlimited number of scoundrel skills (personally I think 7 is more than enough). The highest scoundrel skill wind up toy (lvl 13) would just need scoundrel lvl 4 to have no AP penalty. For all other scoundrel skills rank 3 would be enough.
Anyway I prefer my hybrid rogue (air scoundrel witch) , but I can see no point in investing pure scoundrel (well true, the game never has pure "classes"
...
anyone can enlighten me? Please.

edit: spell checked, sorry for my mobile device and confusing terminology (ability rank in skill vs. Skill level which determines AP penalties)

Last edited by morez; 29/08/14 08:21 AM.
Joined: Mar 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2014
The answer is: there isnt much of a point to it.

Because there simply isnt that many useful skills to choose between.
Which does push you towards taking other "class" skills and making hybrid characters.
I play rogue-fighter-air-witch :P


I just wish they stuck to their guns and really, really went for a true classless system, instead of trying to appease both sides... or that there was more time to get it right.

I feel that presentation in the character creation screen at the start is to blame the most, even though those "builds" there were added just as preset-examples.


Joined: Aug 2014
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by morez

where for example is a point in having 5 levels in scoundrel other than having unlimited number of scoundrel skills


with 5 in scoundrel, you can pick headstrong talent, giving 20% bonus against frozen, stunned, petrified and knockeddown.

a pure rogue definitely would have enough spare skill points for decent bodybuilding and willpower, and adding headstrong to the mix, the scoundrel may be close to getting status effect immunity...




Joined: Sep 2014
R
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
R
Joined: Sep 2014
Wait, so let me get this straight about Scoundrel. The wiki says there are 13 skills available, and the highest is Wind-up Toy which has a skill level of 13. The next-highest is Daggers Drawn with 11.

So:
- The only reasons to increase Scoundrel from 3 to 4 is if you want to negate the AP penalty for Wind-up Toy or you want 9 skills instead of 7
- The only reason to increase Scoundrel from 4 to 5 is if you want all 13 skills instead of 9

Is that right? If so, what a waste...

Last edited by Rynasi; 16/09/14 12:50 AM.
Joined: Aug 2014
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Aug 2014
if you don't want the headstrong talent, just get scoundrel to the level sufficient for useful scoundrel skill sets and ap counts.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Belgium
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Belgium
That's why you have scrolls smile You experiment with them and if you think the skill is useful, you buy the book

Joined: Apr 2013
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Apr 2013
Originally Posted by Styno
That's why you have scrolls smile You experiment with them and if you think the skill is useful, you buy the book


Or you save the scrolls and convert them into a book. wink


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5