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So, I am going to buy the game later this week, and I want to be ready, because I don't do multiple playtroughs (Some games but years apart).
I want to experience as much as I can and decided to go full party with rogue/ranger, mage (geo, pyro, wich) and the 2 companions, knight as a 2h dd tank, and the mage as aeo, aqua, crafter. I read as much as I can on the topic of builds and skills, and I need a bit of help coz everything I found was the end game builds but no explanation about the progression from the start of the game.
So here is what I want and my thoughts on how I should do it. Pls correct me. I want to do it right on the first run and to know how is fun for me, so pls no "just play the game" answers.
I will cheese a bit with glaascanon mages and rouge, but not with imba combos like leech,zombue,gc.
General questions: I read about mages that u need to have your con 2 points above speed to have maximum ap saved for next round, should I use that advice or pump int/speed for maximum round damage? Should I do that on my rouge aswell? Or dex speed?
Some one told that Pet pal is a must for maximum fun on one of the mains and that u should take it on character creation, should I or it can wait for next talent? If I should, shiyld it be on my rogue and skip guerrilla/backstab or take it on the mage?
Rouge/Ranger hybrid - Im going to start with scoundrel/marksan, sneak, lucky - 1 point left, should I get 1 h (or wait for tenebruim) or loremaster (I want lore master for later in the game, ressistances and stuff..) 8 dex for no penalty on skills, and speed rest. The plan us to go sneaky staby pew pew scout with good drops from lucky, resistance check from loremaster (going first for high intuitive and my other main leadership) with glasscannon later. maybe telek later to set up a battlefield.
Helping mages with elemental arrows.
End game I think to pump some mant at arms, will for resistances.
How should I spend my stats?
Mage - geo, pyro, wich, leader, to have all spells in the game with the help of the companion mage, and buff my party with leadership, but how should I progress the stats?
Companion mage - air/water + craft/blacksmith and copy stats from main mage.
Knight - 2h, str, speed, con, man at arms, will, abit of leadership to boost the leader mage aswell meat shield dd.
That the idea, how do I do it in reality, with stat, skill progression? Tnx

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A lot of this I can't answer, but some I can.

As for the Rogue/Ranger hybrid, when getting Scoundrel skills while you're creating your character, be absolutely sure to pick up both "Walk in Shadows" and the Self-haste.. I forget its name. Reason being is that it's general knowledge now that those skill books in particular (along with some others, Whirlwind being among them) are either EXTREMELY rare, or impossible to find. So if you don't pick them up at the beginning of the game, when you create your character, you may not see them again after a certain point.

A note on weapon abilities. Later on in the game you run in to a weapon type called "Tenebrium"; these are essentially end-game weapons. The thing about them, though, is that in order to use them, and boost their damage, they require points spent in the "Tenebrium" skill, which you get later on. These weapons will totally ignore however many points in, say, One-Handed, that you have, even if you're using a one-handed Tenebrium weapon.

Simply, if you have 1 point spent in Tenebrium, and 5 (or however many from gear) in Bow, and you equip a Tenebrium bow.. it ignores your rank 5 bow ability, and uses the Tenebrium ability for damage. The good thing about this, though, is that once you have 1 point in the Tenebrium skill, you can then use any type of Tenebrium weapon (Bow/One-hand/2hand, etc., except Staves) and receive a damage bonus. This is assuming you have the required attribute, such as 12 DEX or whatever, to equip the weapon.

So what this means, is instead of having to put points in both One-Handed AND Bows on your Rogue, you could not put any points in to either, work on something else until you get Tenebrium (or even save the points), and once you do.. max it, or raise it as high as possible.

The other side to this coin, however, is that I have heard that maxed out Blacksmithing/Crafting can yield the highest-damage weapons.. but I've heard people favoring Tenebrium say that about Tenebrium weapons, also, so I really don't know for sure. I've not made it this far in the game, so I can't say either.

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If it were me building the two mains you describe, I'd do this:

Rogue/Ranger - DEX to 8 and probably the rest in perception since I tend to use my rogues as scouts by themselves, and perception bonus helps you find the traps and secrets.
Skills: Walk in Shadows, Tactical Retreat and then choose whatever appeals to you. Fast Track has its uses.
Abilities: one in lucky charm, scoundrel and one in sneak. The rest as you see fit
Talents: Guerrilla and back stab
For your speed attribute, you can probably find gear to boost it. I'd focus on DEX and boost your perception to 12 or so as you level. you might want to dump some points into speed / CON as you level to boost your ability points in combat if you find yourself using the rogue more and more as a damage dealer. They really start to excel after level 10.

Mage - INT maxed
You've already outlined the abilities. For starting skills, I'd take oath of desecration, midnight oil and spark. You'll use the oil/spark combo a LOT early on to roast the early undead you encounter. You'll use oath to boost Madora in her tanking. I'd make the mage be the loremaster because it makes sense. I'd make the mage the leader and give them the pet pal and know it all talents. Pet pal early on helps with your immersion into the game and will open a couple quests to you. Know it all boosts your intelligence but lowers folks opinion of you. That's easily overcome once you're not hurting for cash and can overpay in trades. You'll probably leave the bartering to the rogue anyway.
Later in your build, acquire the blind spell at level 4 and use it liberally in every combat. A blind enemy can't do much to you. Spend your ability points on boosting the geo/pyro/witch abilites. You can find gear to boost leadership. For your attribute points, continue to boost intelligence. If you want to boost speed/con and get the most out of glass cannon, that's another viable option.

If you go with the two companions rather than hiring henchmen for the hall of heroes, then yes, Jahan makes a good crafter. You can find enough gear to boost crafting / blacksmithing skills for him.

Hope some of this is helpful.

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I read somewhere that leader are bad for lore because eventually the leader bonus gives higher initiative score to the party than the leader have, and later in the game he wont be the one who have the first move in the encountes, so lore is semi wasted for the reason you need to wait for him to go to check the resistances, hope it makes sense to you smile
Btw tnx for the help both if you, still waiting for moar replies

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I will dive into all your earlier questions later tomorrow.

In the case of leadership, you want to give it to a caster focused class because:

1: They tend to be in the back so they don't need to be immune to fear.
2: Whatever is alive after your melee focused characters are done can be cc-ed.
3: Casters do not need the exra to hit %.
4: Casters do not really need the extra willpower/bodybuilding, they are at the back so in 99/100 cases the enemies will never reach them.

In the case of lore, no need to use it in combat, use logical reasoning and most enemies are alike and share the same table, know one, know all. No need to put points into that ability in my opinion. Just make sure to give the character that will identify all the items the identify mirror and 2 rings and an amulet that has +lore on it. That is 3 free lore, enough to identify 99/100 items you will find upto level 14. Incase you also have the romantic trait, it gives you another +1 free lore totalling upto Lore 4 which is enough till endgame. By then you swim in the gold and can just choose to let all lore 5 items be identified by vendors or put 1 ability point into lore.

Good luck and have fun!

With kind regards,

Rashar.


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General questions: I read about mages that u need to have your con 2 points above speed to have maximum ap saved for next round, should I use that advice or pump int/speed for maximum round damage? Should I do that on my rouge aswell? Or dex speed?


If you do take glass canon then you have to make sure your AP/turn does not exceed your max./AP.

the formula's are as followed:

max. AP: 7 + con
AP/turn: (speed-1)*0,5)rounded down +4

As far as if you need it on your rogue, (not rouge, please... that is a form of make-up.) the same rule applies to each character that takes up glass cannon.

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ome one told that Pet pal is a must for maximum fun on one of the mains and that u should take it on character creation, should I or it can wait for next talent? If I should, shiyld it be on my rogue and skip guerrilla/backstab or take it on the mage?


Pet pal is not a must, however for a first playthrough I would recommend it, because earlier mentioned you wanted to get as much out of the experience as possible. If you do take petpal, put it on your caster. The reason for that is simple, casters don't have many great talent choises.

I think this should answer your two earlier questions, keep in mind this is my opinion and is no way shape or form a fact. I will now give you an idea as to how I would create a rogue/ranger and a mage, I will also add my reasonings and I will also try to add a rough estimate of what is to be expected at later levels.

I should warn you, I look at most of these things from a very tight min/max perspective.

Let's start with your focused caster aka mage/wizard because that's pretty easy.

str5, dex5, int8, con5, speed7, per5

int does not require an explanation I assume, you need speed because it grants initiative, ap/turn and start ap and you need con to offset the glass cannon penalty and to make sure your tunr/ap do not exceed your max. ap.

pyro1, aero1, geo1, hydro1, withcraft1

You want to be mister versatile as soon as possible, so it's best to grab a ton of the easy and good level 1 spells from every school. After this you can focus on the school(s) of magic you want.

starting skills: teleport, summon spider, flare

Teleport because the spell is insanely overpowered, you can teleport enemies away if they are too close, or you teleport them close to your melee instead.
Summon spider because it gives you a great minion, with high perception, good stats and poison immunity.
Flare because you need a bread and butter attack to start of with, something you can cast each turn. Flare also blows up oily or poisonous surfaces and it will save you some scrolls at the start of the game.

Talents: pet pal, far out man

pet pal because roleplaying wise it great as it leads to more quests, quests lead to experience, experience leads to happy player. Aside you mentioned you want to experience the game to it's fullest, so in my opinion the best option.
far out man because it is the 2nd best talent to take for a mage, the best one being glass cannon... but that is the uncontested best talent in the game... it increases your range and the further back you are, the less likely you get attacked or take damage.

Why did I not chose know it all?

At some point in the game you will find a demon in your homestead. This demon will trade an unspend talent for 10 ability points and he trades 5 ability points for 2 attribute points. Even though I am aware that know it all goes over the attribute softcap of 15 I still rather have 2 attributes of choise instead of +1 int which also includes a minor drawback.


Ok this should cover my vision of a focused caster at character creation. from level 1 to level 7 you should work on fleshing out the mage as the versatile spellcaster who is not action point starved. A lot of guides recommend boosting int to 15 before spending a lot of points on speed/con. In my opinion you should steadily increase them as the focused caster advances because I use a mage as a support class that controls the flow of combat rather then that I use the mage as a damage dealer. Ofcourse my mage has damage dealing spells and if the situation is not threatening then he/she will go ballistic aswell, but in most cases I see the mage as a combat controller. He or she makes sure the enemies are cc-ed while your allies are buffed.

So in terms of increasing abilities I can not offer much help other then the following: In case of doubt increase Int. Make sure that you never more ap/turn then max. ap. And take a good look at your gear and depending on your gear increase your attributes. Early in the game you can craft rings that give +1 con. those are great for starters.

Once you are in town, you want to go on a shopping spree for your mage, since he or she has 1 point in each school it is important to get all the great spells asap. (yes this costs a lot of gold, however as you will read further ahead your ranger/rogue will take walk in shadows and he will rob the whole town blind.)

The spells you want to are the following:

Pyro: flare(1), wildfire(1), save spot
Aero: Blitzbolt(1), Teleport(1), save spot
Hydro: Rain(1), Minor heal(1), slow current(1)
Geo: Summon spider(1), Midnight oil(1), bless(1)
Witchcraft: Oath of desecration(1), save spot, save spot

Reasoning:, flare is yoru bread and butter spell, wildfire is a haste, blitzbolt is your alternative bread and butter spell which also synergizes with the rain spell, teleport is insane, slow current synergizes with your rogue/ranger character which will take bully. summon spider see earlier, midnight oil synergizes with bully and you can set it ablaze with flare. bless helps madara and your ranger/rogue with their to hit early in the game, you will unlearn it when you notice that their to hit is fine without it. Oath of desecration is a +50% damage increase and therefore maybe the best spell in the game...

Stats you want on gear: int, speed, con, perception(only if the gearpiece offers atleast one of the previous 3 stats) leadership.
Stats like bodybuilding and willpower are a nice bonus but other then that utterly useless in 99/100 situations when being a mage.

When you reach level, make sure to have the spellbooks ready that you want to be able to cast @ level 4, make sure to have increased geo to atleast rank 2, and preferably pyro aswell.

Spellbooks to look out for @ level 4 are: boulder bash due to it's small aoe knockdown affect which synergizes with bully and it's a poison attack so synergizes with flare. Fireball, because well it's a FIREBALL!! Blind, best cc in the game mostly because it works on bosses aswell. (blind says that the target can only attack adjacent targets.) absorb the elements because resistance is good and this helps you go over the softcap so your melee character(s) will like this every know and then.)

Somwhere along the line you want to have the pyro spell: immune to freezing because it hard counters freeze cc. he same goes for Jahan, who eventually wants the shields from the hydro and aero school because they counter freezing and stun.

As far as talents are concered: # level 3 you get a talent. Do NOT and I repeat do NOT use it right away. Save it untill you hit level 5 and then get glass cannon. Then to me personally you have all the useful talents you can have as a mage, namely glass cannon and far out man. Save all your other talents. Later in the game you will use them. (if you have read the previous spoiler you will know why.)

As far as ability points are considered: Do some research on spells etc. so you know which spells you want to have on your casters. Rank 5 grants you 11 spells slots, so that means you can cast all the spells. Find out which spells are bad and which spells are good and make a list of your top 11. That aside, if Jahan will be your crafter, then make sure this caster will stack leadership through the roof. Leadership is insane as the higher it gets the sicker the bonusus get. Among them extra to hit, extra initiative, willpower, bodybuilding, fear immunity. So if you have spare points, you can dump them into leadership.

As usual my posts are somehwat longwinded...

I will do the ranger/rogue tomorrow, for starters you can read this wall of text :P

With kind regards,

Rashar.

Last edited by Rashar; 12/09/14 12:55 AM.
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Tnx man, very helpful, waiting for part 2 smile

Edit: Can't find it online, can the 2 companions (Not hirelings) get traits from dialogs?

Last edited by Tanatos; 13/09/14 11:35 AM.
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Regarding lore skill, I prefer to have 1 skill point spent on it, by my main mage, then have personality trait that adds another +1, and then use any two rings and amulet that add +1 lore each.

That all together gives total of +5 to lore, and I actually think this is really useful in combat, since your character will know what kind of resistances each enemy has. Even better if this mage has biggest initiative, so you'll know at start of the combat what to do. Although this could be tricky if you plan is to use such mage with leadership (which gives initiative to other characters). You could focus one mage (like Jahan) as loremaster and other mage as leader, or vise verse.


P.S.
Personally, I'm not fan of glass cannon. It makes easy fights even easier, but does not help that much with tougher battles in my humble oppinion. Definitely something I would avoid for 1st playthrough.

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Glass cannon is for mages and maybe later to my scout, nothing should come to the mages with 2 summons, knight and a scout on the front lines. Imo, will see in real combat smile

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Originally Posted by Tanatos
Glass cannon is for mages and maybe later to my scout, nothing should come to the mages with 2 summons, knight and a scout on the front lines. Imo, will see in real combat smile


Well, there are always ranged enemies to "help" in this regard.

Personally, I prefer my mages to be survivors with good health. After all, someone needs to remove all those nasty status effects from warriors.

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Originally Posted by Tanatos
Tnx man, very helpful, waiting for part 2 smile

Edit: Can't find it online, can the 2 companions (Not hirelings) get traits from dialogs?


I been a bit busy, but sunday afternoon EU time I will make it my priority to post part 2!

Regarding on traits, only the two protaganists can gain the benefits of those.

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Glass cannon is for mages and maybe later to my scout, nothing should come to the mages with 2 summons, knight and a scout on the front lines. Imo, will see in real combat smile


Glass cannon is without question the most powerful talent in the game for every type of character you decide to play. On hard you really start to notice the health penalty and even then it is not an issue.

With kind regards,

Rashar.


Last edited by Rashar; 13/09/14 11:40 PM.
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Personally I've started basing my group compositions around a single 'hero' character (based on what class/variant I want to experience next).

That character gets Lone Wolf (Hero!), everything they would need to excel in combat, and also gets loremaster and telekinesis (1). For a non-strength hero, I also like to grab Pack Mule. This lets me bypass a lot of inventory management and funnel the great majority of non-combat interactions into one place.

All party members get glass cannon (warriors get shields to compensate if they aren't the wolf), and as mentioned above, a caster gets leadership (max!). If mages aren't the hero, they usually end up support.

I do repairs in-party, but unfortunately usually do end up with outerspace crafting.

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Regarding the archer I recommend the following link:

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=52674&Number=541623#Post541623

Topic is old and closed but should give you a conssiderable amount of insight regarding a focused bow user.

Regarding to rogues I recommend the following link:

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=58407&Number=550353#Post550353

Topic is old and probably closed but should give you considerable insights regarding a rogue.

In both topics I made an attemtp at an elaborate reply, so loads of stuff to read.

If you have any questions after this, feel free to ask!

With kind regards,

Rashar.


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Rashar, may the odds be ever in your favor, you are the real MVP smile
synra, player1, Rumor, Xotni, your insight is appreciated as well, thank you very much.

I have a few follow up questions.
Rogue - As a melee oriented with bow for versatility, theoretically how many hard point should I invest roughly in dex, con, spe, per?
I will take Glass Cannon eventually and I want a highish perception for finding traps and secrets.
I started with 8 dex, 7 per. So far I see stuff.
I (Didn't do the actual math, its all rough estimate) figured putting another one in per to 8 base and level it up in a rotation dex>con>speed>per . Pumping con+speed putting dex points to offset the penalty on skills when needed as I progress on Scoundrel, Expert Marks (level 4 on both as I don't see more then 8 "must" have skills) and requirements to the equipment I find. Using the books on him coz I need to level up 4 stats and not 3 like other characters (As I understand that it is a bug that wasn't fixed so technically I'm cheating so I don't know how I feel about it, but any way time will tell). So after 8 dex, 8 per i'll put 2 in con 1 in speed and start rotating my stats on level up as I stated before.
Lucky charm 2-3, sneak 2-3 this as a base.
Talents: Guerrilla, Backstabber, Bully, Glass Cannon as a must (Leech maybe but its a bit OP), leaving me with 3 to choose from, the list of useful ones I got is > Walk it Off (Less time vulnerable is good but as an evasive char I should be rarely be in a position that gives the enemy a chance to cast something on me , Swift Footed (More moving for my AP is good for mobility), Speedcreeper (More mobility while sneaking, but I have Tactical Retreat, Cloak and Dagger, Teleportation so IDK), Sidestep (Evasion is life but as a rogue I have a lot of escape and with level 5 sneak its only 1 AP so again IDK if it worth it), Leech (Sounds a bit broken that u can heal from your own blood but I play on hard so I can treat my self), Headstrong (I don't really want to level up Scoundrel to 5 and as an evasive char I should be rarely be in a position that gives the enemy a chance to cast something on me).
I don't know what to take, as I see and read Leech>Swift Footed> Speedcreeper> Sidestep> Walk it off> Headstrong.
But again I'm a level 2 char so I know nothing smile

Mage - Stat wise it looks much easier I'll just put 2 points of int above speed and con.
Abilities: Leadership 2-3, Fire-Air-Witch 4-5 (I don't think that I will use all of the spells any way so 9 slots should suffice) Air-Water 2-3 (For minor buffs and combos) maybe pumping into will/body later on just for the sake of roll play not leaving my mage totally weak.
Talents: Far out Man, Pet Pal, Glass Canon. After that feed the demon or get the immunity ones just for the RP sake.
For the second mage the same but with a bit crafting/Smiting (2 I think will suffice) Air\Water/Witch 4, 1-2 in earth/fire and a few points in leader to boost my main.

Knight - this is I think the easiest of them all SRT for Man at Arms and equipment, speed+con the same. Man at Arms to 5, will\body to 5 or so, 2h or tenebrium to max or same.
Talents: Bully, Glass canon, leech. Leaving me with a few options as Courageous (Immunity is always good), Picture of Health (to offset GC), Sidewinder (good for tanking me thinks), Stand Your Ground (Again immunity is life), Thick Skin (Tanking duh), Walk it Off (Tanking), Weather the Storm (Tanking but i have mages buffs so idk), a litle bit of help here, so many good things.

Any help would be appreciated, thank you smile

Edit - For the knight I think to take a point or 2 in Telekenesis because the str for lifting is in her build any way.

I don't seek power build just the fun\versatile that can give me full spectrum of the game and get me trough the game without hindering me too much

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My own approach is to heavily prioritize the primary stat of each class (STR/DEX/INT), as it determines chance to hit for weapons, as well as chance to apply status effects (which are very important in D:OS).

Most of my characters march towards max in their stat before doing much of anything else (maybe a point of con or speed here or there). Exceptions are I put a few extra early points in CON for warriors to help them survive the Glass Cannon transition, and a couple of points in perception for rangers to help them fight effectively at range (with the added bonus of trap/secret scouting).

I wouldn't bother with the talent granting immunity to fear, as you get this effect from a character with strong leadership. Likewise, don't worry too much about specific avoidance of other status effects, as you get excellent general mitigation from body building and willpower (both excellent abilities).

Remember that in D:OS once you finish the story, that save file is done, so you're not building a team for 2016, your'e out to enjoy the game and experiment smile

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Maxing Dex on Rogue is not the right way because u have back stab and heartless trait so u have more space to wiggle, not my words, just something I read. But tnx any way. And again when I'm done playing, I'm done for good, till 2017 atleast so there is a reason for me asking all these questions

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Level 20 daggers require 12 Dex. There isn't much point in getting more than that unless you rely on status effects, which imo is a waste of AP most of the time.

For non-Lone Wolf builds with Glass Cannon, keep Con and Spd at the same level in order to max your recovery AP. They should end up at an odd number (since Spd only increases AP at odd numbers). For Lone Wolf/GC, Con needs to be 2 higher than Spd. That's for every class, not just Mages or Rogues.

To max out at 20 AP per turn, you need 13 Con and 13 Spd (assuming you have no +AP gear) [Edit: Not 11].

Overall that means +7 Dex and +8 Con and +8 Spd = 23 attribute points. By level 20, you get 15 attribute points to spend, plus 1 from a book (nerfed in the latest patch) and potentially more from trading in skill points. Gear with +Dex, Con, or Spd is more valuable now.

IMO, the only things that are absolutely REQUIRED for a GC melee Rogue are:
Glass Cannon
Guerilla
Backstab
1 Scoundrel: The only skill (other than below) that might be "essential" is Self-Medicate, but that still only requires 2 Scoundrel.
1 Expert Marksman: For Tactical Retreat
2 Sneak: +1 Cautious and +2 from gear gets you to 5
5 Tenebrium
Walk in Shadows
Tactical Retreat

To max your weapon damage, you also need someone with 3 Blacksmithing to craft daggers. (Do NOT craft them at any more than 3 Blacksmithing, as it will actually decrease the damage.)

Other "good" things to have are:
Bully: Assuming you or a partner who can inflict the required statuses
Swift Footed: Because movement is essential for Rogues (req. 2 Scoundrel)
Trip: Nice in combination with Bully, but often it's better to just use those 4 AP on backstabs instead
Fast Track: Doesn't last very long but can be helpful before you max out Con and Spd
First Aid: Can't end turn in stealth if you're bleeding
Treat Poisoning: Same as First Aid, but with poisoning (req. 2 Marskman to avoid penalty)
Eye Gouge: To keep casters/ranged from hurting the rest of your party (req. 2 Scoundrel to avoid penalty)

That's only 25-29 skill points and 3-5 talents, so you have plenty leftover to spend however you wish.

See here for max attributes from gear: http://divinity.wikia.com/wiki/Divinity:_Original_Sin_Item_Mods

Might be missing some info here, but I think those are the basics.

Last edited by Rynasi; 18/09/14 05:01 PM.

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