Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Confirm Bully Works w/Bow & Spell-Based Slow?

Hello and thanks for reading.

I have a ranger-type with the Bully talent, which should apply 50% damage to foes that are slowed, crippled or knocked down.

I'm trying to confirm that it is working when my mage applies slow via Midnight Oil. This is hard to do, since the game doesn't provide detailed combat calculations.

For example:
- My bow does 18-30 damage.
- I have 2 points in the Bow skill, adding 20% damage
- I have Ranged Power Stance, adding 25% damage
- On a slowed foe, Bully should add 50% damage

While playing tonight, my ranger hit a definitely slowed (via Midnight Oil cast by my mage) armored skeleton for 34 damage total, according to the combat log -- 21 actual piercing damage and 13 that was absorbed (again, 34 total).

Let's say his bow did the minimum on that shot, which would be base damage 18. The 20% from the Bow skill would be +3.6 damage. 25% from the Ranged Power Stance would be +4.5. 50% from Bully would be +9. (And this is assuming none of the bonuses are cumulative...everything is calculated off the base bow damage.) So, let's add this up: 18 (base) + 3.6 (Bow skill) + 4.5 (Ranged Power Stance) + 9 (Bully) = 39.6.

Alright, so how did he only do 34 total when the minimum should have been at least 38 or 39 (and this is assuming the game rounds down)?

Am I missing something?

Thanks for your time and feedback,

Geezer

I don't even think Bully was working correctly in melee, let alone ranged. But yet, it should be doing additional damage regardless if your fighting as an archer, melee, or mage.

I think beside the damage that got absorbed by armor normally there might also apply skeletons' resistance against piercing dmg. I think you just do 75% dmg with piercing damage against skeletons. (which makes more than sense). So 38x0.75=28.5 minimum damage.

To be clear, I take no issue with the 13 damage the game said was absorbed. I take issue with the damage total, which, if Bully is working correctly, it should be factored in to (and which, as I pointed out above, should have been higher).

If there's another variable that reduced the damage to the skeleton, like piercing resistance, that doesn't even make it into the combat log, then I'd feel better about it. What I'm talking about here is something that cuts the damage at the start to the point that the game doesn't even consider it "damage done"...something that takes the number down before even armor can absorb it (like your calculation, which reduces the damage by 25% from the very start to reflect piercing resistance, does). It'd be a shame if the combat log didn't state this -- since it diminishes the value of having a combat log in the first place -- but at least I'd be confident that I didn't waste a talent point on Bully.

Can anyone else shed some light on, confirm or deny this? Do other resistances work the same way -- reducing the damage before it's even reported by the game?

- Geezer

Without knowing how damage is calculated it is impossible to understand. As you mentioned there is no combat log and Larian hasn't revealed the order of appliance of all the mechanics.

Which leaves people speculating... however I think physical resistance applies before armour applies. Which makes the damage you did a lot more believeable. Your average damage is 48 (18-30)+95%) which becomes 36 due to physical resistance (-25%) then the opponents armour applies.

From your example I could only derive that this attack rolled only slightly under average damage.

Aside from that 1 attack is a pretty bad sample size. You need like hundreds of attacks on different armoured mobs...

Bully is one of the best talents for an archer or melee character, so you did not waste the talent point.

With kind regards,

Rashar.


Edited:


Another example, I calculate your minimum damage as follows: 18+95% = 36 then physical resistance applies lowering it to 27 and then armour applies. So doing 34 damage of which 13 is absorbed is not so ridiculous as it looks.

I couldn't agree more...one attack isn't just a pretty bad sample size, it's dismal to the point of worthlessness. But, for my purposes, I respectfully submit that I didn't need a sample size, rather just a single example of damage that was below the lower limit of the range my character was capable of. If you accepted my premise that the lowest damage my character should have done in that situation was 38-39, then 34 works just fine to demonstrate something is wrong...and I felt it likely that that something was Bully (rather than the Bow skill or Ranged Power Stance).

But, as I inquired and you pointed out, Bully being broken isn't the only option. The other option is that there is a hidden factor(s) not shown in D:OS' too-lean damage log. In this case, per your example, physical resistance (piercing) is the most logical culprit.

So, unless anyone comes forward to positively validate that Bully is indeed broken, I'll consider the matter closed and take solace in your assurance that Bully was not a talent point ill spent.

I'll conclude by saying that it seems to me that turn-based games like D:OS are particularly susceptible to these kinds of doubts. You have so much control over combat -- unquestionably a huge part of turned-based combat's appeal -- that properly working mechanics are essential, a kind of unspoken pact of trust between the developer and gamer-customer (aka it needs to work as promised). Consequently, the value of transparency is greatly elevated in these games, which is to say it'd be great to have a properly detailed combat log.

Thanks for your thoughtful input,

Geezer

No problem at all.

And I do agree with you that the combat log should have been more detailed. Even though my way of math seems to make sense for this example it might not be the right way. I'm just as lost as you are. And I ran into similiar things on my 1st playthrough and was like "HUH?! wtf is happening!?"

But overall I think that the game makes up for the few small things that could have been "better".

With kind regards,

Rashar.

One of my main characters always was an archer on 3 playthroughs (only one completed).

Without taking too much notice of individual damage each time I can confirm that bully does work on slow. Archer did on average considerably more damage.

Regards,
Thorsten

Very helpful. I'm feeling reassured. Thanks, Thorsten.

I agree with the assertion that a larger sample is needed, but you could certainly investigate with a much smaller scale than you suggest. Just a single target, 10 hits with factor applied, 10 hits without. Differences should emerge at that scale (especially for a 50% modifier).

Double that amount and you could support statistical testing, but that's likely unnecessary for individual use