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I hardly ever play a game until it has been out for about six months, but I am really itching to play this one. The only thing holding me back is that I hear that there are some annoying imbalances that rear their head starting mid game. Something about tenebrium, resistances being overpowered, etc. I am not up on the details because I don't want the game spoiled for me AT ALL.

Having said that, can anybody provide some input as to the state of overall balance in the game? Nothing spoilerish, but in general, would you recommend now to be a good time to launch fully into the game? Or would it be better to hold off for a few more months if you want resistance issues fixed, weapons more balanced, etc.?

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Hopefully it shouldn't take a few more months. The latest kickstarter update said "in the coming weeks" when mentioning new skills (dual wielding and Wand are mentioned in the game files since the latest update) and difficulty modes. There have already been some balancing changes with regards to resistances, which are part of some larger balancing changes in the works.

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Thanks for the reply. That is interesting to know about the new content that will hopefully be available soon.

I guess my biggest concern is the game reportedly getting too easy around mid game because of your character getting too overpowered. I've always enjoyed brutal difficulty in RPGs, having all odds stacked against me. Games turning into a cakewalk halfway through is a major turnoff; should always get more difficult, on the whole, as you progress.

If this does not describe the current state of the game, I guess I will hold off for a little while longer.

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That does not describe the current state of the game; I think you'll need to wait for the new difficult modes.

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It does get easier but cakewalk is exaggerated. But I agree it's probably better for you to wait for the new difficulty modes. Hopefully they're not just +enemy health/-player damage though.

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Originally Posted by Mangoose
It does get easier but cakewalk is exaggerated. But I agree it's probably better for you to wait for the new difficulty modes. Hopefully they're not just +enemy health/-player damage though.


Unfortunately no - no exaggeration. Even as a RPG newbie in my first playthrough I found the fights after Hiberheim astonishingly easy, although I had to correct some character setups by adding abilities to drain resistances and willpower after leaving Cyseal.

I think I had 3 character deaths in my first attempt on normal shortly before the final battle, 2 of them in Cyseal in the first fights. The fights really tend to be on the easy side, although you might feel different as some enemies are hard (= long time) to kill, but at a closer look their damage output is often lacking (like Boreas).

The key is of course crowd control and battle setup - brute strength and blindly storming into the fihgts can be a way to desaster.

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Thorsten

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Definitely should wait for the next patch, when new difficulty options become available, and perhaps some other adjustments are made.

I played before the resistance revamp up to the winter area, and it became quite easy -- such as beating two bosses even before they got initiative to attack. Granted I stole everything for cash, learned vendors have infinite inventories if you just vist them every so often, bought out all the legendaries, (didn't abuse skillbooks though), bought mats and crafted for more income...

Anyways, I realized I made myself much more powerful than the game intended me to be (at least at that point.) So i put this game on hold, to see what they come up with. I'm waiting for the new difficulty settings to give it another go...

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Yeah the easy difficulty is WAY too easy and the normal difficulty is hardly 'normal'.

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Normal difficulty is just what the game was balanced for. The other difficulties are just some number tweaking relative to the "normal" difficulty. Said number tweaking makes a pretty big difference last I saw some numbers.

But that's just how I see it. What do you mean by normal being hardly normal?


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Originally Posted by Thorsten
Originally Posted by Mangoose
It does get easier but cakewalk is exaggerated. But I agree it's probably better for you to wait for the new difficulty modes. Hopefully they're not just +enemy health/-player damage though.


Unfortunately no - no exaggeration. Even as a RPG newbie in my first playthrough I found the fights after Hiberheim astonishingly easy, although I had to correct some character setups by adding abilities to drain resistances and willpower after leaving Cyseal.

I think I had 3 character deaths in my first attempt on normal shortly before the final battle, 2 of them in Cyseal in the first fights. The fights really tend to be on the easy side, although you might feel different as some enemies are hard (= long time) to kill, but at a closer look their damage output is often lacking (like Boreas).

The key is of course crowd control and battle setup - brute strength and blindly storming into the fihgts can be a way to desaster.

Regards,
Thorsten

So in other words, you were an RPG newbie, you experienced the beginning of the game as an RPG boot camp, and suddenly the game became a lot easier because you learned how to play an RPG.

Wow, what a surprise.

Originally Posted by EinTroll
Normal difficulty is just what the game was balanced for. The other difficulties are just some number tweaking relative to the "normal" difficulty. Said number tweaking makes a pretty big difference last I saw some numbers.

But that's just how I see it. What do you mean by normal being hardly normal?

I think he means that Normal difficulty is balanced still too easy. I somewhat agree with that. I played a pretty unoptimized party (half-intentionally.. though mostly for fun 'theme' purposes) and felt like I normal difficulty was balanced enough. On the other hand, if you actually spent time designing your characters/party well then normal difficulty becomes too easy.

That being said it's kinda semantics, in other words, ignore than "Normal" is called "Normal" and just think that there's difficulty is numbers 1, 2, 3, or whatever. Hard is okay if you optimize your party (to a degree - e.g. not using unbalanced traits like Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon).

I do have to reiterate, though, that I would like Harder difficulties to result in difficult encounters in terms of changing the actual encounters, better enemy party design, more skills used by enemies, better AI, etc. Not just +enemy health/-PC health/+enemy damage/-PC damage/etc. Of course that's not an easy approach but it's much more preferable.

Last edited by Mangoose; 25/09/14 09:06 PM.
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Normal difficulty is totally unbalanced once you leave Cyseal, at least for melee and ranged attacks. Easy mode is also way too easy, you will easily crush most enemies without them even getting a chance to fight back. It feels like having god mode enabled.

The biggest problem is that the poorly balanced hit ratio. My warrior and archer can't hit for shit after Cyseal and were having 75% or higher hit chance in the Cyseal maps. After six months, this game should finally have these issues fixed. Mages, however, always hit their target with spells, though effects like blind and stunned don't always work.

The blood letting spell for witchcraft I've found useful as that does melee damage and always hits the target. Also the staff of magus spell acts the same way as if you would hit the enemy with your staff. I've used this spell to make a staff that does fire damage ignite oil and poison from afar and watch the enemies blow up and burn.

The story and character conversations are really great. It is just combat that is a mess, though it is slowly getting better with each update. By December the game should really be awesome and fine tuned. It will be a game that will be enjoyable 20 years from now.

Last edited by LightningLockey; 25/09/14 10:59 PM.

Every time there I run into trouble on the road, there is always a dwarf at the bottom of it. Don't they know how to drive above ground?
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Originally Posted by LightningLockey
....
The biggest problem is that the poorly balanced hit ratio. My warrior and archer can't hit for shit after Cyseal and were having 75% or higher hit chance in the Cyseal maps....
As far as I know ALL skills ALWAYS hit but special effects like knockdown can be resisted. Normal Attack is not a skill. Also you have a 100% hit chance against stunned or knowdowned people. So the combat is about incapitating the enemy.

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Right, skills always hit, normal attacks have a chance to miss or get blocked. If you're having trouble hitting things that are your level (or even 2-3 levels higher), it usually means your primary stat isn't high enough, so your offensive rating isn't high enough. Bless can also be handy, esp. for bows.

The game gets easier after Cyseal, but that's a combination of learning how to play better and your characters/gear getting better. You can still die pretty easily on Hard if you just run in and act like a buffoon. I'd appreciate a harder difficulty that didn't just rely on pumping enemy stats and lowering yours, but we'll see what Larian is planning...

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Originally Posted by Mangoose

So in other words,


Wrong catch. If a complete newbie to RPG regards the fights as easy after his learning curve, the figths ARE easy.

Regards,
Thorsten

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I was giving the game another go tonight. It seems all my problems with Luculla forest are "left over" bugs that were not resolved. I seem to be having the hit % problems with the npc's/monsters on the west side of the map. Going to the mines and killing off those goblins didn't give me too much of an issue.

I would recommend killing off all the goblins to the mines and even the immaculates there until you see those invulnerable knights. Then you should be able to go to the immaculat trials without as much of an issue.

There are still problems, but I can clearly see improvements being made. Huge ones.


Every time there I run into trouble on the road, there is always a dwarf at the bottom of it. Don't they know how to drive above ground?
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Just curious as you say you are considering missing your attacks as a bug, what was your level when fighting the monsters on the left side of Luculla? They are level 14 so if you are several levels lower than that you will miss often, this is just general scaling.

The goblins are all around level 12 and its optimal to take that route first (story-wise aswell, hence why they are lower level, thus easier to subdue) - however you obviously can take the other, harder route if wanted and go to the mines later.

The death knights in the mines are meant to be sneaked by until you are able to fight them (again, story related).

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Originally Posted by LightningLockey
The biggest problem is that the poorly balanced hit ratio.


There are no issues. You took a wrong track and ended up fighting many levels above you or/and you forgot to put points into your primary stats like strength.

Coming out level 12/13 from Hiberheim it is easy either way - Luculla mines or Immaculate trials first.

Regards,
Thorsten

Last edited by Thorsten; 26/09/14 05:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by Thorsten
Originally Posted by Mangoose

So in other words,


Wrong catch. If a complete newbie to RPG regards the fights as easy after his learning curve, the figths ARE easy.

Regards,
Thorsten

No, it means you became less of a newbie as you played past Cyseal. And I said the game is easy in the second half. But it's not a cakewalk.

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Originally Posted by Mangoose
Originally Posted by Thorsten
Originally Posted by Mangoose

So in other words,


Wrong catch. If a complete newbie to RPG regards the fights as easy after his learning curve, the figths ARE easy.

Regards,
Thorsten

No, it means you became less of a newbie as you played past Cyseal. And I said the game is easy in the second half. But it's not a cakewalk.


I don't think it has much to do with player skill in this case. Near the end of Cyseal, you have enough diversity in skills to be able incapacitate the strongest opponents in any given fight before they get a chance to act. It doesn't take much skill or planning to most fights from that point onwards.

The Source Difficulty mod has a smarter approach to this issue by rebalancing SPD/Willpower/Bodybuilding/skills for most enemies so they would not be trivial to remove from combat. I expect Larian to take the same approach to their "harder" difficulties as well.

Last edited by Emberstrife; 26/09/14 06:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Emberstrife
I don't think it has much to do with player skill in this case. Near the end of Cyseal, you have enough diversity in skills to be able incapacitate the strongest opponents in any given fight before they get a chance to act. It doesn't take much skill or planning to most fights from that point onwards.

The Source Difficulty mod has a smarter approach to this issue by rebalancing SPD/Willpower/Bodybuilding/skills for most enemies so they would not be trivial to remove from combat. I expect Larian to take the same approach to their "harder" difficulties as well.


That was another area when playing with all the #'s was I took a -5 on our guys initiative, so they don't always start first. Pretty amazing how resourceful your players can be, instead of us getting all the hits in first and a large advantage, them getting their knocks in first sometimes, makes it start out seeming hopeless, but our guys are resilient and after the end of the fight you feel pretty satisfied.

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