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Some of last changes (no idea when) changed crafting tenebrium bar+weapon. It still adds tenebrium damages to any non tenebrium weapons. But now it makes the weapon as a tenebrium weapon using the tenebrium skill.

That's a very lame change making totally pointless 4 abilities ie all weapons abilities. BAD.

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Agreed

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Many have voiced their concerns and disappointment with this. Larian is working on a combat update, though haven't said if this issue will be taken care of, making the older abilities far more useful.

I personally would like to see this issue resolved.

Last edited by LightningLockey; 07/10/14 06:31 AM.

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You know, adding tenebrium to regular weapon always changes damage bonus skill to tenebrium.
That is nothing new.

As for the weapon skills, they are not pointless.

They are very useful in 1st half of the game, which is actually harder then end game.

If you just save and don't spend any skills points in weapons, you are essentially gimping yourself for the toughest part of the game, for very minor boost in end game. Really, anyone can spend 3 skills points (+2 bonus) and equip +1 boost item to get 30% bonus in favorite weapon skill, which is a lot.


Also, if your character is planning to use only single type of weapon and not mix and match, why not keep getting specialized in regular weapons and forget about tenebrium?

If you like tebebrium high damage, just boost weapon with tenebrium (by character that has some tenebrium skill), and then boost it again with elemental essence to convert that tenebrium damage to elemental (and have use normal weapon skill), while keeping higher damage rating.

Last edited by player1; 07/10/14 07:38 PM.
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The complete tenebrium discussion, flaring up again and again, beats me. Why?

1) Everyone and his mother is complaining that nobody gave him a planning schedule for level 21 at level 1. Wow. For me as a newbie the idea alone beats the purpose of a RPG, but that is just me.
2) All skills are far from useless between level 1 and roughly level 14, where the first point in tenebrium is available. Quite honest - if somebody did not learn combat tacticas up to the point where every fight is easy (!) then, what is he going to do with a few damage points more? Nothing.
3) And even the damage points are highly questionable. Every time I compare a Tenebrium weapon with hand crafted gear (crafting 5), with sword of planets or with a level 11 staff boosted by +2 intelligence I refrain from tenebrium. Furthermore looking at the resistances of late game opponents, what do I find? Exactly, tenebrium resistance.

I take a bet anytime of the day that a sword of planets or a legendary boosted by crafting beats any tenebrium weapon I have seen in 4 playthroughs so far hands down. Anyone up for the challenge for equal damage skill (intelligence, dexterity or strength)?

Regards,
Thorsten

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Thorsten, I agree with all you points. This entire subject is an overreation. D:OS isn't at very hard game so they is not need to maximize skill the first time around.

And the second time when you play on hard (if you do) then you know all the things to come and can plan accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Thorsten

3) And even the damage points are highly questionable. Every time I compare a Tenebrium weapon with hand crafted gear (crafting 5), with sword of planets or with a level 11 staff boosted by +2 intelligence I refrain from tenebrium. Furthermore looking at the resistances of late game opponents, what do I find? Exactly, tenebrium resistance.

I take a bet anytime of the day that a sword of planets or a legendary boosted by crafting beats any tenebrium weapon I have seen in 4 playthroughs so far hands down. Anyone up for the challenge for equal damage skill (intelligence, dexterity or strength)?

Regards,
Thorsten


I use crafted weapons and boost them with Tenebrium. I don't see why you would make that comparison (stock Tenebrium weapons vs. crafted weapons). I have yet to find any legendary that is better than what I can craft myself and then boost with a whetstone/bowstring, tormented soul/sextant and finally a tenebrium bar.

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I consider Tenebrium to be useless. Comes very late and the game is not so hard that you badly need the damage increase. Properly crafted elemental weapons deal more than enough damage even late game.

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This should get an adjustment on how the 2 skills interact with each other, the idea is that you are able to keep your weapon specialty's bonus (eg. having points in Two-Handed) instead of having Tenebrium overwrite it. This change may or may not be iterated. I don't have an ETA on when it will get implemented though.

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Originally Posted by player1

As for the weapon skills, they are not pointless.
They are very useful in 1st half of the game, which is actually harder then end game.


Tenebrium and resistances are overpowered!!!


Killing shouldn't be the solution for everything!!!
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Originally Posted by nbog
I use crafted weapons and boost them with Tenebrium. I don't see why you would make that comparison (stock Tenebrium weapons vs. crafted weapons). I have yet to find any legendary that is better than what I can craft myself and then boost with a whetstone/bowstring, tormented soul/sextant and finally a tenebrium bar.


And I have yet to see a crafted weapon beating a legendary boosted by a whetstone, a tormented soul, a tenebrium bar and finally an elemental essence rolleyes .

Only if you regard the additional bonusses of legendaries as completely useless (like the 20% stun PLUS 10% mute PLUS additional strength e.g.) you may come to your conclusion. Even then barely.

Regards,
Thorsten

Last edited by Thorsten; 08/10/14 04:34 PM.
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The way how these % chances to apply extra effects work, they are not as useful as they seem especially in late game.

Evey point in willpower enemy has, will reduce that chance by 10%. So 2 willpower enemy will completely ignore effects of 20% stun.

Still, those effects are good in early game, especially against basic enemies.

Also, stun itself is really great, since stun change is increased by extra 30% if enemy is wet, so is much more useful then some other effects.

Last edited by player1; 08/10/14 07:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by Thorsten
Originally Posted by nbog
I use crafted weapons and boost them with Tenebrium. I don't see why you would make that comparison (stock Tenebrium weapons vs. crafted weapons). I have yet to find any legendary that is better than what I can craft myself and then boost with a whetstone/bowstring, tormented soul/sextant and finally a tenebrium bar.


And I have yet to see a crafted weapon beating a legendary boosted by a whetstone, a tormented soul, a tenebrium bar and finally an elemental essence rolleyes .

Only if you regard the additional bonusses of legendaries as completely useless (like the 20% stun PLUS 10% mute PLUS additional strength e.g.) you may come to your conclusion. Even then barely.

Regards,
Thorsten


rolleyes

For comparison, here's what's possible to craft at L20:

2H Axe (265-530 Damage, 2x Crit Damage, +24% Crit Chance): http://i.imgur.com/Gy6Dubu.png

1H Axe (163-327 Damage, 2x Crit Damage, +14% Crit Chance): http://i.imgur.com/vH9g422.png

Sword of Planets (286-328 Damage, 1.5x Crit Damage, +0% Crit Chance): http://i.imgur.com/ixDUElp.png

2H have supreme damage potential but 1H have better defense because of shields. The Sword of Planets is nice as a defensive weapon, but is inferior in terms of damage to a crafted 1H Axe with a crit bonus because the SoP has an lower crit multiplier and ZERO crit chance bonus. Anyway, I have never seen a Legendary which has better damage potential than this 2H axe or this 1H axe. If you have, then please post it.

Originally Posted by player1
The way how these % chances to apply extra effects work, they are not as useful as they seem especially in late game.

Evey point in willpower enemy has, will reduce that chance by 10%. So 2 willpower enemy will completely ignore effects of 20% stun.

Still, those effects are good in early game, especially against basic enemies.

Also, stun itself is really great, since stun change is increased by extra 30% if enemy is wet, so is much more useful then some other effects.


This. The problem is that legendaries don't do nearly as much damage as crafted weapons and the paltry bonuses don't compensate for this (most legendaries don't even have double crit chance bonuses, unlike some crafted variants). Given the choice between having a roughly 1 in 4 chance to deal double damage and having a 1 in 4 chance to have only a *chance* (modified by the target's BB/WP) to inflict some status effects, I'll take double damage.

Last edited by nbog; 09/10/14 11:04 AM.
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Hey , first post in here :)

So I m a newbie in divinity , just started a few days ago , I m still in cyseal.I m playing in hard difficulty.
I kinda agree it would be disastrous to have a road map for level 21 at level 1 the first time you are in the game. It takes away all the fun of exploring the game and its system , and then start over 'to do it right'. I have no problem with a skill being less usefull than I first perceived. For instance I learned afterwards than boosting a magic skill to 3 at early level is less effective than increasing INT in order to increase the effiency of my already known spell that is, at least some went to cost a bit less AP that s still kinda cool. I went for the rules and the maths once It started to become interresting. I also picked pickpocket but found out it wasn't worth the trouble, with drops and craft i get better stuff and gold is not an issue after a while, since sneaky stealing paintings is far more lucrative than diving into another's pocket. But that 's ok, I invested a few skill point in pickpocket and I don't use it but I can still do it if I want to !

That being said , I would feel cheated and saddened if a skill turned out to become a 'zero effect' factor at the end of the game. Ofc the skill would have helped me early on but why o why would it disappear entirely because of a 'tenebrium ' enchant with a 'tenebrium ' skill ????

The end of the discussion is a bit reinsurring and promising btw since apparently you get the ebst weapons from end game craft and not loot ! if that is indeed the case , that s very well played by Lariam. Investing in craft is costly in skill , in times and ingredients and it 's nice to see it rewarded as it should !
Craft > loot should be a rule in many many games

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Originally Posted by nbog

This. The problem is that legendaries don't do nearly as much damage as crafted weapons and the paltry bonuses don't compensate for this ...


Okay. From memory I remember some legendaries with 4 or more primary stats boosts, like plus 3 strength and plus 1 dex additional to e.g. stun. So basically - I still disagree.

I am nearly there in my 4th playthrough (level 20) and have a character with BS 5. I will duplicate raw results of swords/axes crafts and compare with suitable legendaries, both unmodified and unboosted. With a cash reserve at 400,000 without looting Hunters Edge I can buy all legendaries coming my way and will simply do so.

Regards,
Thorsten

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Aaaaand promptly found my first 2 examples per accident:

1) Heartseeker Bow, level 14. Unable at level 19 with craft 5 to produce something better
2) Earth staff level 19 with + 3 intelligence and + 3 speed each (green, not orange!). You can not even come close with crafting at any level

Regards,
Thorsten

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Well... neither of these two use Blacksmithing. laugh

Crafted staffs will never replace legendary staffs, because power of staffs is not is damage but in extra bonuses, which crafting items are not great on their own.

And Hearthseeker is preplaced unique bow. Up before HS, I used crafted bows instead, since they were better then any loot. Still, crafting bow is expensive, since sinews are pretty rare. You do not have resources to recraft new bow every level (unlike axes).

Interesting stuff: Extra damage you get from adding Bowstring to existing bow (including HS) will depend on level of Crafting.

Last edited by player1; 12/10/14 10:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by Thorsten
1) Heartseeker Bow, level 14. Unable at level 19 with craft 5 to produce something better
2) Earth staff level 19 with + 3 intelligence and + 3 speed each (green, not orange!). You can not even come close with crafting at any level


Crafted staves are trash because they only have one bonus and the damage range does not matter. They are the only exception because stats are the only thing that matter so naturally random items will be better. As for Heartseeker, a crafted L20 crit crossbow or L20 Speed/Max AP bow would be much better. A L14 crit crossbow would be comparable and possibly slightly better. I can't give exact numbers or screenshots at the moment because my video card decided to die the last time I was playing this game. frown

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Originally Posted by nbog
As for Heartseeker, a crafted L20 crit crossbow or L20 Speed/Max AP bow would be much better.(


Borderline better may be. I just crafted a level 19 bow with craft 5 and enhanced it the same way as the heartseeker. It was a bit worse, see below.

Heartseeker Lv 14 enhanced by a level 16 craft 5 character (telescope etc.): Raw damage 108 to 188 plus water 66 to 111. Crit Chance +8, strength +2, dexteritxy and perception +3, Bow +1.

Damage rating at ranger character: 250 - 432

Crafted bow (same enhancements, tenebrium enhancement overwritten with water) with a level 19 character craft 5: Raw damage 120 to 240, water 36 to 72. Crit Chance +11, strength +2, dexterity +3, perception +2.

Damage rating at ranger character: 222 - 442

Heartseeker borderline better. Very simple why: You can add more elemental damage as it already comes with some and the plus 1 Bow adds 10% to damage output equipped.

Note: If you rate the 3% better chance of the crafted bow for a crit as a factor, the relation may be borderline reversed.

Regards,
Thorsten

Last edited by Thorsten; 14/10/14 08:33 AM.
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Last post on the issue at hand:

All weapons crafted at level 20, craft and blacksmith 5, only sharpened.

Level 20 1H Axe: Damage 139 - 278, 2x crit damage, no extras
Level 20 2H Axe: Damage 225 - 449, 2x crit damage, 11% extra crit damage chance
Level 20 2H Sword: Damage 204 - 330, 2x crit damage, 13% extra crit damage chance, +3 strength

Legendaries, all only sharpened
1H sword Coffinfeeder (Cassandra, Level 18!), Damage 158 - 205, Tenebrium 47 - 62, 1.5x crit damage, Initiative and constitution +2, shield +1, 30% chance bleeding, allows eroding strike spell, 30% tenebrium resistance
2H Ornate Scythe of the Witch level 20, Damage 139 - 352, Air 21 - 52, 2x crit damage, +24% crit damage chance, strength +3, 25% muted, 15% cursed, 10% stunned

Conclusion:
A level 19 sword of planets and/or a level 20 buffalo sabre are so much better than the 1H sword (not produced) or Axe crafted that there is no discussion
A level 18 ensured find legendary 1H sword is so close to the aforementioned 2 that a decision is taste, not logic. And that implies still clearly better than the 1H self crafts.

For the 2 Handers the contest is closer, but still - I would prefer the scythe over the self crafts.

I could have included some decent legendary 2H hammers but left them out. I admit one thing - you have to be a bit lucky at the undead trader in Hunters Edge or the international trader in Homestead to find the good 2 Handers - there is a huge variety thus a self craft might be better in some cases.

But all of that validates my only slightly modified conclusion - I have yet to see a better self craft than a legendary except 2 handers in some cases.

Regards,
Thorsten


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