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#556270 03/10/14 04:17 AM
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jimnms Offline OP
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I brought this up during the alpha/beta, but it still has not changed. I backed this on Kickstarter because I really liked the idea of role playing two characters. When I play RPGs, I really get into it. I create personalities for the characters and become that character when I play, but the dual dialog system in its current state ruins that for me. Since I am role playing both characters, when they have a disagreement I would like to be able to decide for myself which one wins the argument.

I have yet to play through the game because this bothers me so much. I haven't tried to play it in a while, so tonight I started up the game to try again. The personality I created for my characters has Character One as a calm and good natured and law abiding type, while Character Two is also good natured but not always law abiding and tends to have a temper that without the other character to keep in check, would get into a lot of trouble.

So when I get to the two drunk guards that want to escort them to the wizard, Character One agrees but the temper of Character Two flares up and doesn't want to be escorted by the drunks. The dual dialog starts and I would like to have Character One talk Character Two down and agree to to go peacefully, but the game won't let me. It takes control of one of my characters from me and forces me to play RPS against it. The second character wins and I'm forced to kill the guards. After the battle is over, there is another dual dialog which now has Character Two talking as if it's Character One's fault for starting the fight.

I try to play on. I get to the town, and Character Two really wants something and tries to steal it but gets caught which prompts another dual dialog moment. When they talk, Character Two tells Character One not to steal things when it was Character Two that did the stealing.

I just can't go on. Please fix this.

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seems like you chose an AI for your toon?



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yes either restart or wait until a bit later in the game where you can change the AI and personalities.

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I'm not using AI personalities because I'm choosing the dialog options of both characters. When there is a dual dialog and you choose have the two characters disagree, you have no choice but to play RPS to resolve the argument, but you lose control of the 2nd character during the RPS game therefore you can't decide for yourself which one wins.

I'll start a new game and post screen shots in a little bit.

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Originally Posted by jimnms
you can't decide for yourself which one wins.

Boost one character's charisma to help them win RPS sessions, or hit F5 and then F8 until the character you want wins.

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I just started a new game and went with the two characters it decided to generate by default. No AI personality was selected for either of them. When I got to the bridge with the two guards again, I tried to recreate the same situation as before, but the end dialog was different for some reason. I'm pretty sure in the dual dialog I selected the same combination and order of charm/intimidate/reason options as before. I had Roderick choose to want to fight the guards and Scarlett chose to go peacefully. In order to try and get the same outcome, I saved before beginning the dialog with the guards. When the RPS game comes up I just pressed space to auto resolve. I had to do it three times before Roderic won the conversation and they fought the guards. At the end of the fight, Roderick this time said: "There we have it, two dead legion." When I played yesterday he said to Scarlett something like "Are you happy now, we killed these two men in cold blood" even though he was the one that started the fight. I wonder if having different character attributes caused this or saving and reloading three times.

I went on to the city, and once I got inside I had Roderick steal some nails from the table. After getting caught, the ! icon pops up over their head and when they speak, Roderick says to Scarlett "that doesn't belong to us, you know" when he was the one that stole it. You can see that in the screen shots here.

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I think the problem with roleplaying both characters arguing is that only one of them will get option to back out (usually adding him +1 to Obidient trait, instead whatever his choice would normally give).

When one character chooses his stance (intimidate, reason, charm), other one can chose his own stance or just agree with other character.

There should be option that when 2nd character chooses his stance that then first character can agree with other guy, or if not, proceed with R-P-S game.

With current system, first speaker has no option to back out from his choice.

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Originally Posted by Raze
Boost one character's charisma to help them win RPS sessions, or hit F5 and then F8 until the character you want wins.


I'm aware that charisma helps with the RPS, but the thing is, my character with the temper is the one I boost charisma on because that is my primary "talker" character.

I shouldn't have to use save scumming to the the outcome I want, and it can be time consuming. Why have a game that lets you role play two characters, but then take away that feature when you have an argument by not let you decide which of your characters wins the argument.

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If you can simply decide who wins the argument, then it isn't really an argument, IMO, you just have cosmetic dialogue options that don't really matter.

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Originally Posted by Raze

If you can simply decide who wins the argument, then it isn't really an argument, IMO, you just have cosmetic dialogue options that don't really matter.


Raze my ex fiance would disagree with your statement. Jimnms quicksaving before doing the RPS isn't all that bad. Make the decisions you want for each character to set their traits along with the overall decision for each conversation. I often feel that using RPS to decide disagreements is very silly, but a necessary mechanic. After saving/quicksaving just click the skip button until you get the desired outcome. That's my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Raze

If you can simply decide who wins the argument, then it isn't really an argument, IMO, you just have cosmetic dialogue options that don't really matter.


It's called a role playing game for a reason! I'm role playing both characters, so the argument between the two characters is taking place in my mind. But instead of letting me role play both characters having an argument, the game takes over one and forces me to play RPS against it to resolve the argument. Even if it is just a "cosmetic dialogue option," it does matter because it lets me role play my characters the way I want.

It should be a simple fix, just put a "give up" button for each character on the RPS screen to allow us to have a character give up and let the other have their way. This would also benefit coop play as well. When the RPS game was first implemented, I played a little coop with a friend. Most of the time if we disagreed, we talked it out on VOIP, and if we came to an agreement we would allow one or the other to win the RPS game. In those instances, it would have made it easier to have a way to give up and let the other player win rather than go through the RPS game. Other times if we couldn't come to an agreement, the RPS game is a good way to duke it out.

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It would make sense that if the other character is supposed to be the calm, leader type he should have higher charisma to keep his companion in check, no? If you're worried about optimization, one or two points into Charisma isn't going to break your character and enforces the role you seem to want him to have. Added benefit is that he'll be better at being the voice of reason against other NPC's as well.

I do recall there being an option to back out of the argument before the rock-paper-scissors thing is initiated, but I don't recall if it's for both companions or just the one who initiates the conversation.

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Yes, there is still option to back out. But only one character has that choice, not both.
See my previous post:

Originally Posted by player1
I think the problem with roleplaying both characters arguing is that only one of them will get option to back out (usually adding him +1 to Obidient trait, instead whatever his choice would normally give).

When one character chooses his stance (intimidate, reason, charm), other one can chose his own stance or just agree with other character.

There should be option that when 2nd character chooses his stance that then first character can agree with other guy, or if not, proceed with R-P-S game.

With current system, first speaker has no option to back out from his choice.


Only second character can choose to back out. If he does not, first character has no choice to change his opinion, ever.

In my opinion, this hampers ropleplaying.
I want my characters to argue, but I should have ability to decide which one of them dropped out of argument, and not have only that as option for character who did not start the dialogue.

Note that I'm not talking about forcing result on R-P-S game, but ability to back out and get +1 Obedient from it, which currently only second character can do.

Last edited by player1; 05/10/14 08:21 AM.

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