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#557606 28/10/14 02:23 PM
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Another post directed to the devs most of all.
Ill keep it short.

There are various elemental shield spells in the game.

The problem with them is that effectively, they provide damage resistance against all types of damage, instead of against just one element as their description would suggest.

Its an incredibly cheesy mechanic that allows players to abuse the gameplay and win encounters more easily then they should.

I can literally cast an air or a water shield on a character and have it deflect any type of damage at all, until the shield is spent.

That should be changed so that these shields only deflect their own type element damage and let all other types of damage pass through.

Alternatively the enemies should use more of these shields themselves (if they arent changed) which will ultimately frustrate players a lot and make them ask for a change anyway.


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Enemies do use them, all the time, many of them long before you can. At the Church in Cyseal the wind up toy crazed dude in the grave uses Fire Shield and almost every Immaculate has one as well, they just try to CC you first and fail because of their low base stats.

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Enemies dont use them at all. Atleast in the first part of the game and i do have the spells long before enemies or that single poor enemy in the graveyard.

In reality.

To be clear - i have the spells as bought scrolls, not the skill. From as early as level 2, as soon as i got to Cysael.

And apart from that single sorry sod in the graveyard i cannot remember seeing any enemy using that spell at all. Maybe at some later stages there are one or two who cast it but thats it.

Altogether thats a far lesser issue and just an additional problem, a related consequence of the main problem i described.



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Originally Posted by Hiver
Enemies dont use them at all. Atleast in the first part of the game and i do have the spells long before enemies or that single poor enemy in the graveyard.


Really? Not paying much attention to the game, I assume? In my 5th playthrough currently I saw enemies use them in Evelyns lair, in Black Cove, in Withered Gardens, on the approach to the failed Arhu machine, on the approach to Morticians hut. That alone rouhghly covers most important fights in the second half of the Cyseal map.

Which in return means they are completely unimportant, I barely even take notice meanwhile. Even those protected by elemental absorption die by fire, it may take a bit longer but not long enough to even adapt battlefield tactics.

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Originally Posted by Hiver
The problem with them is that effectively, they provide damage resistance against all types of damage, instead of against just one element as their description would suggest.


Agreed, that would make one have to think of what type to cast when facing enemies. Learn what spells they might cast at you and only shield against those.


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@Thiorsten

Your assumptions about me are as stupid and as ignorant as usual.

I have never seen a single enemy using an elemental shield spell in any of those encounters you listed. :shrug:

Im not sure if you even understand about which spell i am talking about. Besides that being completely beside the point of the thread and the actual issue.

I have no idea how any of that could possibly mean such things are not important, even in that retard version of yours, especially based on the fact you dont even notice them anymore... or how does elemental absorption or dying in fire have anything to do with it... ?


What it seems to have something to do with is your stupid assumptions about how im making these suggestions because i personally have a problem with difficulty of the game and want to make it easier...? Which is what you also assumed in the previous one.


Just stay away from my threads and stop insinuating ludicrously false "stuff" about what im saying because it has nothing to do with it and its really insulting, besides being an obvious retard smear campaign.

Do i have to repeat this a few more times to sink in?

I really hope not.

Last edited by Hiver; 29/10/14 02:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by Phalzyr
Originally Posted by Hiver
The problem with them is that effectively, they provide damage resistance against all types of damage, instead of against just one element as their description would suggest.


Agreed, that would make one have to think of what type to cast when facing enemies. Learn what spells they might cast at you and only shield against those.


:slow clap:


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Dude, you are without a doubt the most rude, abrasive and completely hostile poster I have ever run across. No one wants to help someone who constantly insults them and who writes like he is chewing on their own face all the time. Try being kind, being considerate and having an ounce of respect for the people posting. If you can't do that, then people will just begin to completely ignore you.

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Try that yourselves.
And maybe you will get a response in kind.

Instead of being rude, fallacious and insulting to intelligence of those who you address.

-
WHERE CAN YOU READ ME SAYING "Hey guise, i could use or need some help with... -" ?

WHERE?
WHO IS ASKING FOR HELP?

Didnt i specifically say that im writing this to the devs, not to general posters?

And its not because i think badly of other posters. Its because this stuff is simply not an issue that is dependent on general posters or their opinions.


All you few who responded provide, despite being asked not to, are fallacies and personal attacks. Just as you did right now.
And then you cry and play victims when its returned.

This post wasnt even written for any of you, especially not for Thorsten, who basically just repeated his mistake, lies and distorted imaginary "ideas" from the previous thread... in which nobody called him or asked him for anything EITHER.

Along with two other posters who filled it with their lies, strawman arguments, ad hominems and mind-boggling assumptions that exist only in their heads.

I dont have to tolerate that. I dont have to take it. Accept it, condone it. Or forgive it. Or turn my face away and stop talking.

When have any of you been kind and considerate to anything?

And why the hell would you imagine i need to behave in a way you want?

You are not "people".
You are just a few posters that ruin any forum you get to.
By insulting others the second they dont agree with you, spamming your propaganda all over and PLAYING A VICTIM TO CREATE EXCUSES FOR ALL THAT YOU DO.

I really wish you would put me on ignore. Because im doing just that to you all right now.

Maybe then i can have a thread or two WITHOUT defending from various numerous and completely ludicrous accusations you few just invent all the time? EH?

CAN I WRITE SOMETHING WITHOUT THE TWO OR THREE OF YOU SPAMMING FALLACIES AND LIES OVER MY THREADS?


Last edited by Hiver; 29/10/14 02:42 PM.
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You can direct a post at anyone you want, but posting in a public forum leaves it open to public feedback.

You can refute a statement/assumption without using insults and without going into great detail about your assumptions of anyone's intelligence or motives. And no, 'he started it' isn't a valid defence, even if accurate, especially if you are escalating the situation.

The more you do focus on things off-topic, especially written in a way likely to provoke a reaction, the more off topic the discussion will become.

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Im focusing on off topic stuff? ME? IS THAT REALLY SO RAZE?


Public feedback is ok, even if unwanted, provided that "public" understands what im talking about.
Some posters did and that was fine. Pointless but ok.

I have no problem with that. Dont strawman me just because someone else made that idiotic assertion.


Some didnt, three of them so far - and then went to pots various lies, invented stupid accusations, assertions and declarative statements without a QUESTION IN SIGHT! And they do it over several threads. Thats not an assumption.

And its not public feedback. Its "public" bullshit.


They would like to present it as if they are the "public" and im just some angry dude who doesnt want the public to comment.


- you had just fallen for that cheap trick.




That kind of ludicrous and very insulting crap will only get this kind of answer from me.
Especially if i didnt start it. Especially if i tried to avoid it several times over.

My replies dont make off topics any longer.
What makes them longer is the fact that these forums allow those posters and such posting.
And inadvertently support it.
Like most of the forums around.

I am not going to suck it up just so you can feel better about yourself or these forums.

"The more you do focus on things off-topic, especially written in a way likely to provoke a reaction, the more off topic the discussion will become."

:lol: youre telling that to me? :lol:

I should instead quiver in my pants, put a sock in my mouth and be terrified of these few posters? Because the forums actually support that kind of discussions?
Those kinds of posters?

Or i should respond nicely to them while they are free to splurge whatever falls out of their heads? Waste pages and pages defending from every accusation they invent - only for them to completely disregard it and keep repeating and screaming the same ludicrous stupid shit? So that the original purpose of the thread is completely lost?

Like they and their clones did in the previous thread, and the previous one, and the previous one. And the one before that.

Because if i dont then they will say something nasty? and play poor victimz so that either the thread or the poster they dont like gets closed?

:lol:


To your credit that hasnt happened yet, but i do feel that ts obviously not far away, seeing how you accept fallacies splurged by those few posters as holy truths. - it looks like it -


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Yes, you are focusing on off topic stuff. Take a look at the length of the posts and the length of your replies. Your reply to Thiorsten, for example, could have been limited to lines 2-4 of what you posted, and would have been a more effective rebuttal without the rest.

I pointed out your responses were counter productive assuming you wanted your topics to actually stay on topic. Is it more important that you be seen to be 'right' or to defend yourself against perceived attacks? Do you assume people reading the topic are really too dumb to figure out what you are posting if you clarify and refute comments from others, unless you also go into great detail with insults?

Some of your responses are not inappropriate because of some possible reaction someone else may have, but because the content itself is inappropriate.

I was not posting based on anything anyone else said, so I don't know what fallacies you are referring to, let alone having accepted anything as a holy truth.

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No, im just reflecting it back. For me this discussion ends each time i write a post like this.
But then someone else makes another post that prolongs it.

I dont start it and i dont prolong it. In reality.

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"I pointed out your responses were counter productive assuming you wanted your topics to actually stay on topic."

But it is not me who keeps pushing things into off topic flamewars territory.
Thats what youre missing.
The cause and effect should be observed.

I actually just dont want false feedback from those posters who - evidently, dont think they need to understand what i am saying and instead pursue their own agendas or just fly off on some tangent they imagine.

Which then distorts what i am saying. There are poster who latch onto those false translations and then go to increase the problem. Just look at Phalyzyr in the other thread.
He never read what i am saying, he just saw the false things those two invented and then went off on that tangent for several pages.

Despite me saying i dont intend to talk about it and putting him on ignore.

There is just no stopping that without equally harsh countermeasures.

And look - it worked.
As a result he started to actually read what i am saying, instead of what someone else is saying about what i am saying.

All i need is a month or two of drilling more and ill make a sane poster out of him.
(joke... just a joke, haha)

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"Is it more important that you be seen to be 'right' or to defend yourself against perceived attacks? "

I am right in this case just because of the circumstances.
These things im talking about are not something i invented. They are in the game already.
Which means i am right simply by default and because that is so... i dont need to argue about it at all. There is nothing to argue about in that sense.

There is no "perceived attacks" there. Its not something i imagine, Raze.

All im really arguing is that im trying to say that the orange is not the best ingredient in this soup and those few keep screaming that they like apples in their roasts and they dont want it removed...

Devs will see the suggestion, they will think it over and ultimately decide to do something about it or not. I dont see how any "public" feedback based on misunderstanding can help that.

I dont see how any public feedback could be against this if it is understood as it should be.



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"Some of your responses are not inappropriate because of some possible reaction someone else may have, but because the content itself is inappropriate."


Insulting language? But thats nothing compared to what an insult those posts and such behavior are.
It only goes in effect after i tried to explain things in a normal way and that fails.
Sure it is not nice to see or read, but to me it seems atleast a bit more honest and simple then the hypocrisy of what im replying to.

Anyway, youre right on this account, but just technically.


Quote

"Take a look at the length of the posts and the length of your replies. Your reply to Thiorsten, for example, could have been limited to lines 2-4 of what you posted, and would have been a more effective rebuttal without the rest."

Too much language? Well... excuse me for trying to explain myself. There is a lot one could say about all of this. A study could be made of it.
I dont think any short answer would produce anything different. Didnt seem to work in previous examples of this.

It is rather strange to hear that length of my replies is prolonging something that has nothing to do with me. Thats... a really strange logic.
And it seem to imply i should worry about what someone like Thorsten or Mongoose will think about it...and then censor myself?

Thats even stranger. To say the least. And i could say a few thing more.


Maybe next time it happens, and it will in an environment like this, i can use a link to this thread to shorten future replies. (if im still here that is)
But i doubt it.

Probably nobody noticed but i dont go around accusing people of anything or attacking their personality or character... until i find myself in such a situation and reflect it back.
I do respond to it but thats all.

Not that that matters, right?
What matters is who can achieve greater false niceness. The fake pretentious civility masquerading whatever insane or fallacious thing is sprayed out.

Because logic, common sense, facts and truth are not a currency on the internet or forums.
The currency is how you make someone else feel.

And its all just... sad.



Anyway, to try and get back on topic....


Quote

Agreed, that would make one have to think of what type to cast when facing enemies. Learn what spells they might cast at you and only shield against those.



It isnt only that the players would have to think what type of shield to use against which element. Its pretty clear stuff in the game already.

What this would do is prevent players to use these elemental shields as something that mitigates all damage.

Currently, when you cast... lets say air or water shield on yourself, it removes any damage at all, not just air or water based damage as it should.

Enemy strikes you with a sword (or whatever else) and all that does is it takes away a bit of a shield. Your health remains unaffected by enemy hits as long as the shield lasts.

For the duration of the shield you are literally impervious to ALL damage.
It shouldn't play like that.

Other types of damage should get through it and affect your HP.

Maybe, maybe such elemental shields could reduce damage a bit, since that seems plausible but that should be themost you get from them.


So, example:

:Water shield on:

- Physical damage gets through - maybe reduced by 10% or something. And it destroys the shield too, reducing its "length" or duration as it does now.

- Water based damage gets completely stopped. But it chips away at the shield.

- Lightning based damage hurts you more - and reduces the shield. (maybe more then others?)

- Fire and Earth based damage does less damage then usual, but some of it gets through anyway. and they reduce the shield too, of course.


Maybe you can add difference to how much each element affects the shield and player character health to make it a bit better and more diverse, therefore more interesting in gameplay.



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Yes, I understood what you meant in first post, but thanks for further clarifying.

I however can't comment on how often the enemies use them, as it not something I was looking for so simply don't recall...

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that I also agree with Raze wink


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I never used these in my first play through, but in my second I tried them out. They are way too powerful and did make encounters too easy.

It basically doubles your health right? I would say it is even more powerful than the Invulnerability spell.


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I hadn't even realized the shields work like this until I used one in a mod, and I thought it was specially modified or something. They just seem straight up broken, honestly.

Hiver, I tend to agree with your ideas, but take Raze's advice. You aren't making your ideas any more appealing to the forum users OR the devs by flaming people. And this is a forum, so expect that people will want to enter a discussion, even if you don't think their points make any sense.

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Ill explain this the last time.

There are suggestion that benefit from public feedback. There are suggestions that do not.
The public, including me, knows too little about these things in sufficient detail to properly judge it all.

Thats why this is aimed at devs the most.
They are the only ones that know every last tiny detail of it and the only ones that can properly judge it and then decide to do it or not, or to do something similar to it.


Second of all, there is a few posters here who are continuously trying to flame me, insult me and blatantly strawman what i am saying. They didnt provide any feedback. Only distorted and literally ludicrous crap.
But they would love to make you all believe its because "i dont like public feedback".

Its a cheap, lying strawman/ad hominem argument they use because i dont accept their insults and stupidity.

It would be nice of the rest of you to not fall for it, just because they said it.



Third, some suggestions are not fit for "public feedback" for other reasons.
Like for example the recent change when devs soft capped elemental resistances from gear at 80%.
If they offered that for "public feedback" it would never get accepted.

All because a few posters would have provided so much screaming and noise and flamewars - as they did afterwards, based on completely wrong presumptions.



Originally Posted by Romus5
I never used these in my first play through, but in my second I tried them out. They are way too powerful and did make encounters too easy.

It basically doubles your health right? I would say it is even more powerful than the Invulnerability spell.


I dont know if they exactly double health or not. Never really checked the dry numbers.
All i know is i dont take any damage at all until the shield is spent.

I think that different types of damage affect and reduce these shields in different amounts... but im not sure if its that or just some hits i took simply did more damage then others.

In any case i think that if its possible to do, this suggestion would make gameplay better for everyone - and make the game a bit harder in a very natural and consistent manner.

Just imagine an enemy that sees you casting fire spells and then uses fire shield.
That would reduce one very easy way to defeat some enemies, wouldn't it? From time to time, where appropriate, of course.


And if its done in a bit more complicated way as i suggested above, it would open up a whole small field of gameplay options in combat.

Lets say enemies cast water shields with effects as i detailed above:
Quote

:Water shield on:

- Physical damage gets through - maybe reduced by 10% or something. And it destroys the shield too, reducing its "length" or duration as it does now.
- Water based damage gets completely stopped. But it chips away at the shield.
- Lightning based damage hurts you more - and reduces the shield. (maybe more then others?)
- Fire and Earth based damage does less damage then usual, but some of it gets through anyway. and they reduce the shield too, of course.


- you zap them with electricity.

And while im at it, ill throw a few such ideas for other shields too.


:Earth Shield:

- Reduces physical and earth (poison) based damage the most.
- Water damage it the most? And gets through and damage character health the most.
- Fire does minimal health damage and minimally reduces the shield. Or some middle amount.

- Air?

?


:Air shield:

- Reduces Air based damage the most.
- Protection or reduction of damage against Earth-poison is good.
- Fire affects it a lot? (fire loves oxygen)
- Physical damage gets a small reduction against it.
- Middle protection versus water?


Etc.

Feel free to throw in your suggestions if any come up.


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Originally Posted by Hiver
There are suggestion that benefit from public feedback. There are suggestions that do not.
The public, including me, knows too little about these things in sufficient detail to properly judge it all.

Thats why this is aimed at devs the most.
They are the only ones that know every last tiny detail of it and the only ones that can properly judge it and then decide to do it or not, or to do something similar to it.

Why post on forum rather than send email to devs support or other such more direct routes if you don't want other public input?

If you done that it'd be one person backing an idea. The devs are more likely to implement a suggestion if they see several people backing it with valid input not just one person.

They know the system and how it works so why argue in a rude manner about whether enemies use it often or not? The devs will know if that is true, and it doesn't change the more important point of them being all elements (IMO that is more important). Saying you disagree with that assessment would of sufficed. No need to further stress the situation.

Attacking other posters like you have been doing, discourages others to come in and discuss the idea you have, and make devs less likely to do so as well.


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I snipped the irrelevant and fail to see any argument?

You said: Alternatively the enemies should use more of these shields themselves

And I replied that they do. Often, may be not often enough but whatever. I furthermore still fail to see a real problem, but that is my judgement, not yours.

Kind regards,
Thorsten

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Hey...this is great. Moderators have started to delete my posts.

But you leave posts from obvious flamers like Phalzyr, who is barely capable of speech and just keeps on spamming his idiotic inventions about my personality.

And thats ok. Thats the supported behavior.

well we can do that too.
Ill give you a fuller version of a reply.

Originally Posted by Phalzyr

Why post on forum rather than send email to devs support or other such more direct routes if you don't want other public input?
becuase this is a direct route.

I dont want your "input" since its only lies and insults.
Like this one.

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If you done that it'd be one person backing an idea.

really? Wow, geee... i missed my chance then.

Doesnt that pm to you explain quite clearly what i think of you?
Why the fuck would i want "backing" from that?

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The devs are more likely to implement a suggestion if they see several people backing it with valid input not just one person.

No, they dont design a game by committee.

And you didnt provide any valid input except proclaiming yourself "people" and "posters". Which is actually insulting to people and posters.

And you also keep spamming personal insults and blatant lies.
Thats all of your contribution.


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They know the system and how it works so why argue in a rude manner about whether enemies use it often or not?

This is a blatant lie.

Quote where i argued in a rude manner about it.

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The devs will know if that is true, and it doesn't change the more important point of them being all elements (IMO that is more important).

Wut?

Youre repeating what i said from the start?

:lol:


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Saying you disagree with that assessment would of sufficed.

Thats what i did. Actually.

Its just that youre either too stupid to understand that or youre intentionally spamming lies and fallacies as you have done from the start.

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No need to further stress the situation.

Then why do you keep posting in my threads?

eh?

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Attacking other posters like you have been doing,

Posters? What "posters"? And what attacks?

You mean replying in kind to you and one or two other idiots? Since when are you a majority?

Since when is replying to insults an attack?

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It discourages others

What others? Hypothetical others?

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and make devs less likely to do so as well.

devs never do that and there is no need for discussion at all.






- EDIT -



Due to last few weeks increase in amounts of various horrible, sad and tragic things happening all over the world, and especially in the last day or two...

and today being All Saints day which has a deeper meaning where im from... and to me personally,

and because yesterday i opened the new Larian update, read it, then looked up in the skies and just shook my head, spread my arms and waved them around in that incredulous way before just hanging down my head and saying "Fine... fine!"
"I got it... i got it!"
:waves hands around:

I felt like i should remove the part that was here.
I apologize for that to parties i wrongly mentioned in anger using such low vocabulary. It looked stupid and ugly.
And for several reasons i mentioned i cannot let it stay and add to ugly things of these days.

Not the least of which is that the new update from Larian, released shortly after i wrote this post made it so that i have shot myself in the foot and "eaten my hat" too... at the same time.

So its actually like they double pwned me from one shot.
Plus, since they obviously were preparing that from some time ago... it turns out they did it without even trying.

Which, as i said did not escape me.


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