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Previous poster mention a Speed of movement and speed of combat adjustment not just through menu options but with key bindings (speed up/slow down) too, which I agree would be nice, especially if you're replaying the game and want to speed run the game.

Last edited by ZoddGuts; 24/12/14 04:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by Baardvark

Larian should also really analyze Shadowrun: Dragonfall Director's Cut to see good story, atmosphere, and writing. They're really did an excellent job of sci-fi fantasy, still a largely untapped genre for cRPGs.

Indeed. Dragonfall has excellent writing and atmosphere. I love that game. smile

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- more and more diversified writing and dialogues
- better and deeper choice and consequence
- more and more extensive/deeper companions
- even more ways to solve quests, more non-lethal solutions
- goal-dependent XP and rewards system
- better AI
- more (non-plot related) unique boss encounters
- better looting system with less randomness
- no henchmen skill/ability exloits anymore
- more comfort for dedicated SP playthroughs like shared gold
- even more uniqueness and crazy Larian ideas!!!


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1) An expanded and more flexible Traits system.

The concept of the Traits system, as something that gives a gameplay effect based on how you actually play the game is a neat idea, but in Original Sin, it is limited to only trait-pairs from Dual Dialogues which grant one of a pair of opposing bonuses, and it's always the same pair. It may not always be the pair appropriate for the job, maybe the traits appropriate to the current situation belong to two different trait-pairs.

Because all the traits are in pairs, it also means that you can't have stand-alone traits, and that drastically limits what you can do with them. You can't have a "Careless" trait that you get from using AoE attacks with allies in range, for example.


2) A more flexible and dynamic skill system.

Right now, skills are only considered part of one school. I'd like to see a more flexible system where skills can be "either-or" or "and". So Phoenix Dive, for instance, could require EITHER Pyrokinetic OR Man-At-Arms. The skill "Flamenado" is a Fire-Air spell and requires BOTH Pyrokinetic and Aerothurge. A piece of armour could require Strength 11 OR Constitution 11 (for those guys who only want to be a tank).

That does admittedly sound complicated to create and balance.

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LordCrash already had everything I had in mind listed, but it bears repeating anyway and some stuff is just my personal preference, this is big stuff for the next games, not minor things.

Characters - Companions: More complex, more interesting, more UNIQUE. With personality, with dialog and consequences related to what we *do* and not just what we *say*. Companions that feel like they are alive, and not just a healer class we needed because we didn't run our own healer.

Singleplayer: Please give us option (and take this into consideration when writing your story) to start with -1- player made character. In D:OS the story interlinked it so I grudgingly RP'd it, but the actual play-experience was just that it was 1 companion with nearly zero personality. It felt so .. empty. Yeah we got the personality setting which sadly only involved dialog and never a true personality (like one might be used it from say, Dragon Age Inquisition characters.. or BG2 companions) but that was not enough. If you give us the option to make characters then give COOP players the ability to make 1 for each player, and make a plot where that make sense ,) Or roll the plot of player created characters from a pool.. or something. I don't know what the best solution is ;(

Writing: Writing sets mood, writing in D:OS does not set good moods wink Larger RPG needs better writing, less *verbose* writing and yet more mood setting writing.

Going beyond: An RPG not pushing boundaries in story telling and companion interaction, be it subject matter, quests, or involving players ethics, morals and emotions, always falls flat. This is why Torment is the defacto king of story in RPG's a game about mortality, memories, living and death, that to those that played it and actually read it, as opposed just "fought through it" will never forget. And why BG2 is the king of RPG's in general (Because companions were more or less living) a new Larian RPG should strife for such things wink

And especially when it is Sci-FI then mood is everything. If you make it dystopian you absolutely need to push the story writing beyond generic sci-fi. And more importantly than not being generic, is not being annoying in gameplay.

Anyway... Larian made a decent RPG. After an imo slightly side-tracked Dragon Knight Saga expansion and a even more side-tracked original game in that series.. where ideas were aplenty, but the execution lacked. If the combat hadn't been what it was in DKS I'd rank it pretty much above even Skyrim. Because I love dragons (more than even sci-fi)

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How about making a "full" RPG parody, mocking all the (over-)serious RPGs out there?

I mean, getting "serious" is a difficult subject, especially since the Divinity universe/franchise isn't all that well constructed as a serious world after all. While containing some serious matters Larian games were always a bit "silly" and funny. Maybe it's time to really build on that special competence, at least in one of the upcoming games...

I would greatly embrace one deep, a bit more serious RPG along the lines of DOS (but even improved) and one just-for-fun PRG, taking the piss out of all the fantasy/sci-fi/steampunk/cyberpunk/horror/whatever stereotypes and clich馥s we know from other games, movies, books and television without any need or aspiration to be serious at all. That would be the game for which Larian finally had the opportuniy to fully live out their crazy ideas without fearing a bad conscience and without making compromises. Just like e.g. Obsidian did with their South Park RPG lately. wink

Last edited by LordCrash; 24/12/14 02:44 PM.

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1. Decide if a game is dark and serious or light hearted parody. DOS sometimes flits between the two with e.g. banter between the protagonists not always matching the mood of the narrative. Either is good - mixing sometimes jars IMO. This is not to say a "serious" narrative can't have comic interludes/character cameos (see Shakespeare for example), just that they need to be placed carefully and partitioned so as not to break the immersion and mood in the main narrative.). Another way to put this is that an RPG can go for suspension of disbelief or it can go for tongue-in-cheek but it can't really go for both.

2. Character customization options. Bulging biceps and mega-boobs are not my thing, nor do I like ridiculous and impractical attire. I'm not criticizing DOS for this because on a limited budget doing proper avatar construction and detailed in-game attire modelling would have meant sacrificing game content and i would rather have content than looks, but for the next game this should be affordable given DOS success. Nothing wrong with massive biceps and mega-boobs for those who like that sort of thing, but the option to create your characters in the image you imagine would be really nice.

3. Major inventory management overhaul. There are so many ways to make it better I'm not going to grind through them all. If you're going to have masses of "stuff" to deal with, and lot's of players like that I know, you gotta have the tools to manage it easily and effectively. it's a big quality of life issue in RPGs.

4. Major crafting overhaul. Apart from some basics like making health potions and weapons it is almost impossible to craft stuff without alt-tabbing to a crafting guide or risk losing your sanity. Expecting you to write up your own personal crafting guide manually is not IMO an option in a modern game. If you are going to encourage experimentation you need to support that by recording successful recipes for future use and also provide a system to eliminate failed combinations somehow. Skyrim did this for alchemy for example. Make it deep and complex as you like, sure, but give the poor player the tools to capitalise on their efforts without it feeling like going to work or a double physics class on a Monday morning.

5. Highlight new dialog options (in bold for example).

6. Put the main game log (the equivalent of "A source Hunter's Journey") in a separate tab and open it pre-scrolled to latest entry to encourage it's more frequent use (by bothdesigner and player) and .


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Good ideas, Gregorovitch. I especially want to comment on your #1.

Drama and Comedy can mix, but a lot of the time, Original Sin goes pretty far in one direction or another. A lot of the time Original Sin is just zany and wacky, and then you come upon human sacrifices and massacred villages.

The tragedy has no impact at all. None.

Spoilers for if you haven't beaten the game:

That's because the first time you arrive there, there's a zany, friendly skeleton picking through the corpses looking for good bits and making jokes.

Divine Divinity somehow worked better by showing less, by having the world and the characters feel more like real people than Original Sin's bantering buffoons. Madora is supposed to be our human link to this tragedy, but she hasn't said much outside of the time when she finally tells her story.

Frankly, Madora's story is also jarring in that it seems to come out of nowhere. She seemed to be a zany, overly paranoid character whose paranoia was meant to be amusing. I mean, cats purring as a form of mind control? There is no sign that she's actually supposed to be badly traumatized, and after her revelation, there doesn't seem to be too much development of that facet afterwards, either (although I haven't yet finished Hunter's Edge), just her wanting to get vengeance on her torturer.

That's all well and good, but it misses the mark, because that's all about what happened to HER, and the fact that the village was massacred seems irrelevant.


Divinity 2's use of tragedy and disaster also worked better because the world, while still having a sense of humour, was not super-zany. The characters still felt real.

Last edited by Stabbey; 27/12/14 01:28 PM. Reason: typo
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Yea.. the weird changes in tone and mood in this game are why I continue to say that the writing in D:OS is sub-par. I can think of about 10 big situations in D:OS where I thought to myself: "And... that's it?" because I made a discovery that while not PLOT related was a major event to the world that the writing established but the writing ignored it and just plodded forward.

I just expect more from my RPGs ;P

Also I am getting really really wary of RPG's with "Coop" support. Because that means concessions were made that I find more and more infuriating. I want the big hulking SP experiences like DA:I and BG2, and Torment and so on. I don't want "social" gaming. Gaming is where I want to be NOT social ;P

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Two things I would like are epic dungeons (like the first DD) and (actually I don't care about this but others seem to care) day night schedule. Also I hope they are willing to do some games without emphasis on co-op; it seems to partially gimp the single palyer experience.

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A better UI

D:OS was a lot of fun, but too often I felt like I was fighting with the UI to do things, and many tasks were tedious or overly time consuming. Inventory management was a pain. Crafting was a pain. Transferring items between characters was a pain. I want to spend my time exploring the world, reading the lore, interacting with characters not fighting the UI.

I liked that keys had their own tab. I'd like to see a crafting system similar to guild Wars 2, where crafting items each have their own little slot on a crafting tab. I realize I can 'sort' items, but having to sort alllll the time, gets to be a pain. Allow me to 'click and drag' to highlight a bunch of items to move/transfer/sell. Gem bag, scroll case, arrow case, etc to all combine common items into a tab or window. More item stacking please. Lots more item stacking please.

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In Original Sin, most things which appear overhead are voiced. Nothing inside dialogue boxes is unvoiced. If you stand in town, this results in hearing a LOT of repetitive NPC banter about nothing in particular. "Halibut, Sheep's Cheese, Tomatoes..." That slowly drives players up the wall.

Meanwhile, big important, supposedly emotional and powerful scenes have nothing because the conversations take place entirely in dialogue boxes.

I think that this is the worst of both worlds when it comes to the voice versus text issue.


In the next game, if it has voice acting, I'd rather leave all overhead banter as text only, but have main quest dialogue as voiced even in dialogue. If there's any budget left over after the main quest (which seems unlikely, but what the hell), it should go to party members/companions.


Originally Posted by travathian
A better UI

D:OS was a lot of fun, but too often I felt like I was fighting with the UI to do things, and many tasks were tedious or overly time consuming. Inventory management was a pain. Crafting was a pain. Transferring items between characters was a pain. I want to spend my time exploring the world, reading the lore, interacting with characters not fighting the UI.

I liked that keys had their own tab. I'd like to see a crafting system similar to guild Wars 2, where crafting items each have their own little slot on a crafting tab. I realize I can 'sort' items, but having to sort alllll the time, gets to be a pain. Allow me to 'click and drag' to highlight a bunch of items to move/transfer/sell. Gem bag, scroll case, arrow case, etc to all combine common items into a tab or window. More item stacking please. Lots more item stacking please.


Agreed to all of this. A "junk" tab where you can place items you intend to sell, and reserved slots in the inventory that you can place items and still see them even if you scroll down would also be good.

Last edited by Stabbey; 29/12/14 04:54 PM. Reason: UI
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Or you could it like IWD or BG2,
-only voice main plot important dialog by important NPC's fully
-only voice character inter-party banter in the first line (to set mood) or in important interjections during plot relevant interjections (but there fully)
-do not voice overhead text, except if it's to set a mood (busy market) if it's busy market, look long and hard at how the BG2 market works, they only speak when you come near, and they only say their "pick-up-line" when you initiate dialog.



Last edited by eRe4s3r; 29/12/14 05:22 PM.
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I've tried to read all of the threads concerning future changes of the game.

Personally I was positively surprised that for once there was a rpg that managed to fulfil almost all of the complex criteria that would please both the experienced veteran rpg gamers, as well as beginning enthusiasts that would normally come from more action oriented rpgs.

This game is the sort of game that I'd love to see become even better. Normally I never write on blogs and actually never really care, as I see computer games come and go. But being what I would call a true rpg veteran, (with a curriculum of at least 27 years of being DM in various rpgs, and been through most single player rpgs and mmo's for computer, both fantasy and sci-fi genres), I just couldn't rest properly without giving at least some feedback on this fabulous piece of work !

So here it is:

First of all, I'd love to see more of everything! To be more precise I'll start with content.
More content, meaning more side quests or even variations to the main story. Eventually considering endings, depending of the style of play and decisions. I love it when the mood is dynamic, ie. crossing from humouristic to horror can cause marvelous effect on the player experience. If you can make the crowd laugh, you can also make them cry, as they say.
For mood setting in computer games though, the soundscape is extremely important, as I am well aware that you know of, but it would be great to have an even more immersive sound. This requires lots of work an coordination with all of the other elements in the game, but that would definately lift it to the next level.

Secondly, gameplaywise, even more options, more skills for each line of specialties, considering even more cross-over combo effects amongst the different specialties to create even more surprise in the unknown combat situations,... which you already did very well btw! =D
And by the maker!, keep it hardcore in regards to choices the players make, no redo's or respec options. It's great when there are lots of options, but no turning back! This increases so much more the players interaction and interest !! =D And also a good way to avoid min/maxers in the game and more variation to player styles. I just hate it when all chars of a certain class end up knowing exactly the same skills, and wearing the same gear etc. at end game. Would love to see a broad range of useful skills at endgame.

Third: Races! Why not implement more races in the game, for even more variety. Orcs you've already introduced as npcs. Would be interesting to see uncommon races or even monster races, such as the goblins of different types, maybe elementals or half elementals, or other variations that might suit the world.

Fourth: Crafting. People have mentioned it earlier in blogs. I personally like a simple though diverse crafting system. I like the logics of combining certain things that intuitively could work and see it actually working, without having to gather a special recipe. For that I'd also like to see more customization of items and looks, be it the design and colouring/effects on weapons, gear and armor.

Fifth: Housing. Would be great at some point in the game to have a place to call home, where you can stash your stuff, decorate, rest and craft. And as the game progresses there could be upgrades and events happening there. Maybe different quartes claimed or distributed amongst players, henchmen and npcs ? I know that End of Time has that functionality, but maybe a bit too static to call home... just thoughts.

..
Well that's it for now.. I'll write as I come across something.. not done with the game yet.. =) Looking forward to see the rest of the content !! =D

I usually don't say much.. but when I do I'm kinda unstoppable..
please bear with me... =P

Peace out ! cheer party birthdayjump claphands



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Another thing that I would like is not so much a specific feature, but an improvement in design.

Larian should study up on the subtle techniques that other developers use to lead the player to where they want to go, because Larian is very poor at making the intended progression intuitive for the player.

Look at Cyseal - how many people reach the harbor, walk through to the other beach and get murdered. Look how many people have difficulty finding the proper way to leave Cyseal without getting murdered (and it does not help that both the dangerous harbor exit and the safeish intended exit are both on the west side.

Look at Luculla, where the major obvious signals point the player towards Silverglen, and there, you encounter Arhu, who gives you further direction... but Larian actually intends you to go in the other direction to Hiberheim.

I remember some of Valve's developer commentary on Half-Life Episode 2 talks about ways they use to manipulate the player to move in the way they want them to move without the player even being aware of it.

There's also a somewhat confusing level in Serious Sam: BFE where the player has to traverse an urban area that is crowded. One subtle signal is that all over are street signs with arrows pointing in the right way. Most players probably don't even notice, but its there anyway.

Of course no one wants to see quest markers and big neon arrows, but the point is that there are subtle techniques to encourage a player to go somewhere.


For instance, in Silverglen, Arhu should NOT encourage you to join the immaculates, first he should encourage you to check on the White Witch, since she killed the evil Sourcerer Jake, she might know some of what is going on. Only after you have freed the White Witch should Arhu (if you never triggered him in Silverglen until then) encourage you to join the Immaculates.

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To be honest,
I've no problems with this smile

Divinity games don't hold your hand (at all) and I love that !

Also :
don't "believe/follow up" everything you read or hear (from NPC's) like a 'Headless Nick' evil ...




On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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Originally Posted by Joram
To be honest,
I've no problems with this smile

Divinity games don't hold your hand (at all) and I love that !


I want to be perfectly clear:

It is Not. About. Hand-Holding.


It's more about subtle clues with layout, lighting, object placement to encourage players to go in the direction the designers intend. And yes, Original Sin does have an intended direction.

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- more things to do besides the plot; i.e. not only item-crafting, but buildings etc.
- more choice on alignment (ethic/moral), i.e. playing an evil character and also getting adequate quests and endings (like becoming the bad guy myself hehe )


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My favourite change/wish?

A TDE (the dark eye) ruleset and setting based implementation.
While I really love the gameplay of D:OS, I have to say I think the setting and storyline were the weakest points of the game.
All the wonderful actions one can live out... the classes... it all felt a little bit shallow. A lot of things there simply lacked a complected meaning.
So while they already stated (if I'm not mistaken) they "can do better without", I still think they could profit of it quite a lot. (also contentwise)


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There aren't many dark RPG's of recent, at least not many that aren't visually cartoony, be it aRPG or cRPG.

Steam-punk, Diesel-punk, Cyberpunk, Larian has a lot of choices for a new RPG, rather then sticking to Fantasy all the time.

Always wanted an RPG set in a world inspired by H.R Giger to be honest. Not many games at all resemble surreal settings, other than Frictional Games SOMA and Axiom Verge, which both aren't RPG's anyways.

Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity, aside from the humour, be it intentional or not, were actually pretty gothic inspired, even more so than Diablo II.

Seeing Larian go back to that would be pretty damn cool. Not that I don't enjoy a colourful game, of course I do. There just seems to be too many following that trend of cartoon-ish colourful art style, visually.

Besides, who wouldn't wanna see Larian tackle Steampunk/Dieselpunk, or even Cyberpunk (Not the CDPR Game, Cyberpunk 2077, the actual sun-genre itself)

Larian is such an excellent studio, especially when comes to RPG's they could make either of those work.

Perhaps one of those RPG's could even have a better story. Not that Original Sin' story was trash, It's quite good, but only gets to that point after several hours into the game.

Even though Original Sin isn't exactly story-driven, I'm pretty sure they got more talent in the writing department to come up with something a bit more... interesting.

Last edited by Freely; 08/01/15 04:28 PM.
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