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We know in our observations that it will discourage the features of rolling your character and it's OP that you can go to most of the races places without the persuasion dialogue. Though Swen said it will obliviously have consequences and they will try to balance it throughout the game, but is that enough for a higher stretch goal or get excited about it? No... Also is it needed when playing with a lonewolf character? No.

Though how about if it has a horrifying backstory that will alter your course like your origin story or strange events that will happen when using the mask that will cause a different path to your journey.

The best way to understand, well for me is think about lord of the rings that has an overpowered ring that will cause chaos and very huge consequences that will alter different paths.

Can Swen go that far with the mask? and will it excite you if it there is big role or a purpose with the mask?

Example and Ideas:

1. In the start of the game you are in jail and you'll come across a mask and a dialogue will appear that you can choose to leave it or take it. So what happens if you do not take it?

Answer: You may cross paths with a character who uses this without you noticing and may deceive you from time to time or unexpected events during your adventure that will lead to a mysterious cult or a power may lead to the mask source and may intervene with the main quest.

2. How about if you take the mask or the mask is permanently in your inventory from the start of the game with a important note that says take it to this place and beware it's powers?

Answer:

You can choose to not use the mask but there might be events that the mask suddenly channel through you to use the mask, but you still can choose to ignore it. You may cross paths with hired thugs that needs the mask or strange dealers that will want to get it off your hands or weird characters that may trick you or thieves along the way and so on. If you manage to not use the mask and not let them take the mask from you, there might be a event that you can destroy the mask in a special place or you can decide to keep it with you to the end game where there might be surprises wink


3. So how about if you use it? and what consequence will it be?

Answer: Well I been talking to some people in the kick starter comment section and they bring allot of ideas and one of them is you need a strong enemy (boss) soul that can charge the mask to be able to use it. For the consequences there are also some good ideas from people for example the mask might stick on your face and may bring permanent curses on you the more time you use it (talk gibberish, crippled, loosing stats and so on) or requires sacrifices from characters in your origin story that will really change your paths and lead you to the path of the mask...

4. How about if you decide to not use the mask anymore? from the curses you receive or paths you found out that the mask is not what you think.

Answer: Yes there should be events to find out the secrets of the mask and find information of how to remove this curse and to destroy the item but is it to late for the actions you committed for this power, who knows we might find out wink

So basically what I am saying is how about if there are 3 major events that will crosses paths and lead somewhere else in the story.

Mask>Origin>Main

Where the mask is actually intersecting with both the origin story and the main quest. Would that be more exciting for a huge stretch goal? Yes I say and others agree in the kick starter comments that it should have a backstory with very huge consequences that will bring the story telling to a new level.

It's way better than some overpowered item with consequences for a huge stretch goal... I really do hope Swen explains it better as I think his goal was for people who play SOLO with lonewolf but I do not think that's still not worth it for that stretch goal. I can play lonewolf without it and see where my crazy persuasive dialogue takes me.

Thanks for reading! ~Breathes out heavily~ smile

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This is vaguely off-topic, but I'm thinking that during your escape from the prison, there's a vault with all kinds of strange and powerful objects which the Divine Magisters have collected and sealed away. That might be where the Shapeshifting mask and the Teleporter Pyramids are obtained from. The other powerful objects could still be locked up and inaccessible.

Sorry, I don't really have any suggestions for the shapeshifting mask right now, because it doesn't interest me and I have no intention of using it. As in if it's forced into my inventory I'll drop it on the ground.

If the consequences are too bad or too permanent, then people will avoid using it.

The idea that it has to be fuelled with Source Points to be used seems like a good one.

Last edited by Stabbey; 12/09/15 12:56 PM. Reason: added a couple thoughts
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No problem Stabbey, you are one person that proved my point that people will not use this item.

Yeah it needs to make sense when obtaining them, that was one suggestion that I was thinking when obtaining them during in jail and I know consequences of using the mask should not be that overboard.

That is why I am trying to make this stretch goal to be more interesting for people who do not use it and others who will. It will be a waste of time development if most will not use the mask or most was not excited about this stretch goal. That is why there should be a back story if it is permanently in your inventory or again you can drop it and sooner or later you'll meet a deceiving character's (with the mask) that changes events and connects to the story.

So wouldn't it be interesting to see if you have not used the mask and kept it until you can destroy it in some ancient temple or a surprise in the end or in a major event if the mask is still in your inventory? Would that sounds more interesting to pledge than a over powered item that basically cheat through conversations with consequences as I don't think it's worth it for a high stretch goal.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey

Sorry, I don't really have any suggestions for the shapeshifting mask right now, because it doesn't interest me and I have no intention of using it. As in if it's forced into my inventory I'll drop it on the ground.


But how can you even claim that when you don't have the slightest idea but a few lines on how it works and what purpose it fits in the greater scheme of things ?
All we have for now is a sh!tload of backers suppositions and Swen's promise it will be awesome, which is really not a lot to get going on.

At least let's give the benefit of the doubt and wait for more informations on that. Swen mentionned they were putting together a prototype of the thing, so I'd reckon it's a bit more complex that whatever it is you/we are guessing it may be.


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Yes, that is why I hope Swen bring more information to the table during the campaign for people to get more interested about the stretch goal as there were many speculations about it. Hopefully it will interest both party of people who will and not use the mask.







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There will be more information released about it after the next two stretch goals are met.

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Well, I sincerely hope there will have a description like "The mask glows eerily in your hands. You've a feeling using it will have untold consequences, beware."

And its full range of status effects could show up like in a bar or like a wheel of fortune(or disaster?), especially if it is a status effect randomly picked. Or maybe, they could use __sided dice instead, as a homage to maybe... tabletop gaming? I don't do tabletop but I'm aware they use special types of dice.

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I just realized the undead designs, as pointed out by Swen himself in the Undead Origin update video during his tour, include masks.
I wouldn't be surprise there is a connexion here.


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I have an idea about the mask.

I play Grandia2 at the moment and there is a char who has 2 personalities in one body. This gave me an idea.

First I have to show 2 backgrounds to 2 chars:

CharA: Your mother is very ill. You have to go the a chathedral to get an holy object. It is the only way to save her.

CharB: A sect of necromancers has kidnapped your friend and put a curse on you. This way they force you to destroy a holy artifact in a cathedral. You get killed on your way to the cathedral. Because of the curse your soul gets trapped into a mask as you die.

At the start of the game you create charA and choose his background for whatever reasons. Lets say it is a dwarf warrior. At some point of the game you will find the mask. There is a warning that using the mask will be very dangerous. If you do not use the mask you will never meet charB or the sect. If you use the mask you will turn into charB. When you do it the first time you have the option to create charB. You can select race and skills, but not the background. Lets say you create an elf mage. From now on you can select which of the 2 chars you want to use (dwarf fighter or elf mage), but you will suffer the consequences of both chars.

If you chose to use the artifact to save the mother of charA, the friend of charB will die and cultists will chase you until you kill their leader.

If you chose to destroy the item, the friend of charB will be saved but the mother of charA will die and holy knights of the cathedral will chase you until you make peace with the church.

Using the mask will give you the option to have 2 different skill sets, but you will often have an internal conflict. If you have different goals than a party member, you can simply ignore this party member. But if you have conflict with another part of yourself (and the problems of your other self will try to kill you), this is much harder to ignore.

When you use the mask for the first time you become charB, but it will be very hard to remove it the first time to become charA again. Maybe there is also a prize for changing your identity later.

If this is something completely different than what the devs mean by shape shifting mask, it might be a good idea for a game of its own. Can you live two lives at once?


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This is a nice idea : take one of the spare origin stories and assign it to the mask, switching you background story to the new one when you put on the mask or something. There are some issues though, sadly.

Biggest drawback is that people that chose a specific origin story because they wanted to play this one specifically will just keep dismissing the mask and try to find a classic solution. I mean, if you're going to have 4 characters with potentially conflicting stories, why would you want a 5th? If you want to get your chosen origin story resolution, why care for the alternate one ?
Again, it's perfect for single-character party. Still got the possibility of getting personnal stories conflicts while manning only one char. In MP or in a regular party, it may not be that exciting.

We will really have to wait for more informations smile


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I'm sure the mask will be great for the type of person who, when the play the Elder Scrolls, makes one character who joins the Thieves Guild, the Mage's Guild, the Fighters Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, and any other faction they can find. (Complaining online about how dumb it is that they can join every guild is optional.)

Speaking just for myself, I am not that kind of person. If I want to join 4 factions which all have mutually exclusive philosophies and favoured skills, I make four different characters, one at a time.

So for me, if I have a D:OS 2 party of 4 characters picked out, I'll just try to play the game with those 4 characters, and I don't mind if not using the mask means 'missing content' on that playthrough.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
I'm sure the mask will be great for the type of person who, when the play the Elder Scrolls, makes one character who joins the Thieves Guild, the Mage's Guild, the Fighters Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, and any other faction they can find. (Complaining online about how dumb it is that they can join every guild is optional.)

Speaking just for myself, I am not that kind of person. If I want to join 4 factions which all have mutually exclusive philosophies and favoured skills, I make four different characters, one at a time.

So for me, if I have a D:OS 2 party of 4 characters picked out, I'll just try to play the game with those 4 characters, and I don't mind if not using the mask means 'missing content' on that playthrough.


The people who are complaining do have a point, though. Being mutually exclusive gives weight and meaning to your choices for this particular thing. That is what choices are about, aren't they? If you could do everything you want, whenever you want with no consequences then that's not a choice, it's a sandbox with no structure. You might argue that this gives us more freedom, but it detracts from the seriousness and integrity of the game. Its game-y-ness and artificiality are brought to the forefront and it breaks any kind of suspension of disbelief. Everything around you should react naturally and logically to your actions and choices, otherwise we get the ME2 problem of having no connection between the choices and outcomes, like the loyalty missions dictating if somebody will die at the suicide mission, but that doesn't make any sense, because the two are not connected in any way.

The shapeshifting mask worries me a bit, because it threatens to make your origin choices obsolete. If it's only given on a second playthrough and is not forced into your inventory then I'm going to be fine with it. Besides, seeing all the content in a single playthrough doesn't befit a serious RPG :p

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Creating an item than allows you to change your identity will ruin role playing anyway.

You can be a role player who creates a specific char and this char plays a role in this world.
Or you can look at game mechanics and find funny ways to use them.
But you cannot have all of this at once.

When I saw the video where the devs play the game and answer questions, they made nonsense all the time. (ooops, the fireball that just killed you should have hit the enemy, really wink ). That had nothing to do with role playing, but they had fun and that is the most importand thing in a game.

If I want to make a serious role playing game (like PST) I would never create such an item. But D:OS1 did not take itself too serious in quite a lot of moments.


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Originally Posted by Madscientist
Creating an item than allows you to change your identity will ruin role playing anyway.

You can be a role player who creates a specific char and this char plays a role in this world.
Or you can look at game mechanics and find funny ways to use them.
But you cannot have all of this at once.

When I saw the video where the devs play the game and answer questions, they made nonsense all the time. (ooops, the fireball that just killed you should have hit the enemy, really wink ). That had nothing to do with role playing, but they had fun and that is the most importand thing in a game.

If I want to make a serious role playing game (like PST) I would never create such an item. But D:OS1 did not take itself too serious in quite a lot of moments.


I meant serious as in "well made" and "thought-out" and not in any way related to the tone of the writing :p Having comical elements doesn't mean detracting from the RPG part of this RPG :p That is why I suggested giving us the Mask only on subsequent playthroughs and that it isn't forced into our inventory. That way we can have our cake and eat it too.

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I have thought about my suggestion with the cursed mask and having 2 personalities at once:
My answer: The mask is not neccessary at all.

Regarding choices, you can :
- chose between 2 good options (I want this sword or 2000 gold as reward)
- chose between 2 bad options (take the corridor full of enemies or the corridor full of traps)
- chose between god and bad (kill the prisoner or rescue him)
- do something more complex (Each option will have different positive and negative consequences at the same time. No option will have only good or only bad rersults.)
- A combination of the things above.

If you have good writers the mask is not neccessary to create interesting choices. But such a mask could be one of the better reasons to have an interesting choice.

These thoughts have convinced me that the mask will be a fun item in any case. It will ruin what I have called "serious role playing" in any case. If you accept this you can do some really funny stuff with the mask. Fun is the most importand thing in a game and different people have different ideas of fun.

Well, if you are really good you might create a shape shifting mask that makes sense in the game world. I am not a game designer after all.


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