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Thanx for the fantastic enhanced edtion. You guys are incredible.

I hope I'm not beeing too demanding but a couple of obvious things grates a little:

1. You still can't choose your starter weapon in the character creation/customization screen. It has become worse than before. For instance, in the original game, if you gave your Rogue the "Expert Marksman" skill, you would automatically get a short bow in your inventory. This doesn't work anymore.

2. Bairdotr, a woman supposedly raised by animals in the wild, still doesn't have the Pet Pal-skill?

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Originally Posted by Adrian Pedersen

2. Bairdotr, a woman supposedly raised by animals in the wild, still doesn't have the Pet Pal-skill?


Companions can't talk to most people anyway. That would be a waste of a Talent slot, much like Wolgraff's Escapist.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Companions can't talk to most people anyway. That would be a waste of a Talent slot, much like Wolgraff's Escapist.

I haven't played the game yet so please excuse my ignorance but when you say companions can't talk to most people does that mean that you interact with NPCs using one of the two PCs you create? If so does this also mean that any dialogue influencing skills/abilities/talents/powers/etc. need to be taken only on one of the PCs?

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Originally Posted by Crine
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Companions can't talk to most people anyway. That would be a waste of a Talent slot, much like Wolgraff's Escapist.

I haven't played the game yet so please excuse my ignorance but when you say companions can't talk to most people does that mean that you interact with NPCs using one of the two PCs you create? If so does this also mean that any dialogue influencing skills/abilities/talents/powers/etc. need to be taken only on one of the PCs?


Yeah, pretty much. If You're controlling a Companion or Henchman to talk to an NPC, the usual reply is "what are you, some kind of wandering butler? Have your master talk to me instead." You can still trade with them, but that's about it.

So yes, dialogue-influencing skills and abilities should only go on the two Source Hunter PC's (and no Madora doesn't count).

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I'm pretty sure Pet Pal (and the influence skills) is/are PC's-exclusive exactly because of that, isn't it?

Or did that change in the EE? (If so, I would say that's an error)

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Fix the camera draw distance.. It seems to be pinned to the framework, instead of the actual environment... This is most noticeable, when moving to higher ground!

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Originally Posted by Rizilliant
Fix the camera draw distance.. It seems to be pinned to the framework, instead of the actual environment... This is most noticeable, when moving to higher ground!


I was really surprised at this oversight in the game design. Especially in Tactician mode, where your party's approach into an encounter is pivotal to survival, the limited camera angle is disappointing. It gives me the feel that everyone in my party is near-sighted. I'll hear enemies but not know in which direction they're coming from until the encounter phase springs up.

This handicap coupled with no available party formation (i'm not sure if this is an accurate complaint... i saw in an old review that formations were possible (something about dots above the character's head?) but perhaps it's been phased out of the enhanced version) makes scouting a bit of a chore.

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Originally Posted by Koan

This handicap coupled with no available party formation (i'm not sure if this is an accurate complaint... i saw in an old review that formations were possible (something about dots above the character's head?) but perhaps it's been phased out of the enhanced version) makes scouting a bit of a chore.


For some reason, its not there (or extremely well hidden) when using a controller. It is still in the game when using mouse/keyboard input which sadly doesn't work in local coop.

Last edited by haldolium; 13/11/15 01:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Adrian Pedersen

2. Bairdotr, a woman supposedly raised by animals in the wild, still doesn't have the Pet Pal-skill?


Companions can't talk to most people anyway. That would be a waste of a Talent slot, much like Wolgraff's Escapist.
Wograf is quite cripled by starting talents.
Replace Escapist and Light Stepper
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Swift Footed and Walk it off

Dagger focused man dont need Perception at all. So if any, then Light stepper suits to archer --> Bairdoter

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Originally Posted by gGeo
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Adrian Pedersen

2. Bairdotr, a woman supposedly raised by animals in the wild, still doesn't have the Pet Pal-skill?


Companions can't talk to most people anyway. That would be a waste of a Talent slot, much like Wolgraff's Escapist.
Wograf is quite cripled by starting talents.
Replace Escapist and Light Stepper
by
Swift Footed and Walk it off

Dagger focused man dont need Perception at all. So if any, then Light stepper suits to archer --> Bairdoter


Light Stepper is actually better suited for melee classes, as they must walk into the fray, whereas archers/casters can stand back.. With Light Stepper, the rogue can spot the traps on his own.. The archer wont see traps the Rogue is about to step on, fgroma distance.. Unless you're bringing your archer in that close, in which case, its being used wrong...

Perception does much more than shooting over long distances.. Crit Chance, Starting Action Points, Detect Traps, Initiative, and Accuracy when shooting over long distances..Far more useful, than simply the Ranger class....

I find Wolgruff to be specc'd just fine for his 'Role'.. He is a Thief, afterall.. Ofcourse, if your playing this rpg as notyhing more than a combat sim/action game, then ofcourse you'll find anything not combat related to be gimped, or "crippled"..

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Originally Posted by Rizilliant

Perception does much more than shooting over long distances.. Crit Chance, Starting Action Points, Detect Traps, Initiative, and Accuracy when shooting over long distances..Far more useful, than simply the Ranger class....
Crit. Chance for a man who uses skills or backstab with 100%crit it doesnt matter

Starting action points for man who cast Haste and Shadow walk in first turn and waits for a moment it doenst matter

Initative is also determined by speed, so its much better to put to speed then perception.

If ranged attack is required for dagger man, then rather cast spells or use richoche (handy skill for every Rogue), shooting over distance doenst matter.

Archer detect traps better due to perception for longer distances shots. Your idea of detecting traps "in the fray" is somewhat ill. As far as I know there is no skill for creating traps in the combat so why should I need move my archer forward in the duel?... your points do not have a sense.

Wolgraf has 2 wasted talents from 7 available. Also the attribute points from Perception should be in speed, dex or con. Which means crippled build. Birdoter, Madora are good. Jahan crafting should not be there too.

The best would be, hire up companions on the 2nd level with enough xp for 3rd. So the player can distribute points by himself.

Last edited by gGeo; 16/11/15 04:44 AM.
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I actually think Escapist is incredibly underrated, though it'd be pretty tedious to really fully take advantage of it. A rogue (or any class, really) could conceivably escape when in a bad position and rejoin the fight all healed and buffed and whatnot. As many times as they want. You could build a whole escape party where people are just constantly running away when they're low on health and rejoining. Unless you can only escape a fight once, or something, but even a single escape can change a fight. In theory, it's actually an obscenely overpowered talent and it's funny that people think it's the worst talent in the game (as I used to, but I've come to realize its potential.)

But still, I'm going to give Wolgraff Swift Footed and Avoid Opportunists (now a rogue talent) instead of Light Stepper and Escapist in my mod. Also gave him another point in dexterity to start.

Have to agree also that the camera feels ultra zoomed in. Really annoying. Maybe I can change that once the editor comes out.

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gGeo all your points are right on the button, just a few additions:
- despite the speed tooltip telling you otherwise starting AP bonus is also (SPD + PER)/2 . Getting SPD is always better.
- PER never matters for shooting over long distances, even for rangers. Abilities/arrows never miss and the enemy is disabled most of the time giving you 100% on normal attacks. You start every fight with 2AP +50 hit chance farsight or bless/blessed earth anyway.

The only uses of PER are secret detection or crossbow ranger crit chance. On backstab rogue a bit of str/int can theoretically be useful for better amor and 100% novice spells so PER is literally the worst stat that you can waste points on.


Originally Posted by Baardvark
Unless you can only escape a fight once, or something, but even a single escape can change a fight. In theory, it's actually an obscenely overpowered talent and it's funny that people think it's the worst talent in the game (as I used to, but I've come to realize its potential.)


Yeah, true but taking advantage of split turnbased/realtime mechanics is kinda overkill for cheesing poor AI smile You might as well just start throwing 2ap grenades without pinpoint as far as you like and let them cook off in aoe/force attack them with 2 elemental bonus weapon for triple explosions.

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Even on crossbows, perception is a waste as speed gives more damage when you compare crit given by perception and additional attacks given by speed (even when adjusting range and move to compensate).
In combat, the only thing that's kinda good is to have an even number of perception (if it doesn't cost too much), because you want an odd number of speed.

The perception and light-stepper talent on Wolgraff aren't wasted, because you need at least one character with perception for traps, so if you pick Wolgraff he becomes your cautious explorer. Pay also attention to how much stats he has: he has a non standart amount.

And yeah, crit doesn't matter on (well-built with backstabber) scoundrel.

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Originally Posted by Baardvark
I actually think Escapist is incredibly underrated, though it'd be pretty tedious to really fully take advantage of it. A rogue (or any class, really) could conceivably escape when in a bad position and rejoin the fight all healed and buffed and whatnot. As many times as they want. You could build a whole escape party where people are just constantly running away when they're low on health and rejoining. Unless you can only escape a fight once, or something, but even a single escape can change a fight. In theory, it's actually an obscenely overpowered talent and it's funny that people think it's the worst talent in the game (as I used to, but I've come to realize its potential.)


My philosophy is that if you're playing well, you shouldn't need to use Escapist in the first place. If you have to run away from combat, you're doing it wrong. That's why my favored suggestion for Escapist before the EE was to add "avoid attacks of opportunity" to it.


Quote
But still, I'm going to give Wolgraff Swift Footed and Avoid Opportunists (now a rogue talent) instead of Light Stepper and Escapist in my mod. Also gave him another point in dexterity to start.


Did you remove a point from somewhere else, or just a new point on the premise that rogues are underpowered right now?

Chrest - Wolgraff has the same amount of points as everyone else, it's just that one was removed from his STR and added in elsewhere.

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He has the same total attribute, but one STR went into PER (which isn't that big of a deal), and I think he has one or two extra abilities aswell (so you can consider his lockpicking/furtivity/stealing not to be that much of a waste).

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Baardvark
I actually think Escapist is incredibly underrated, though it'd be pretty tedious to really fully take advantage of it. A rogue (or any class, really) could conceivably escape when in a bad position and rejoin the fight all healed and buffed and whatnot. As many times as they want. You could build a whole escape party where people are just constantly running away when they're low on health and rejoining. Unless you can only escape a fight once, or something, but even a single escape can change a fight. In theory, it's actually an obscenely overpowered talent and it's funny that people think it's the worst talent in the game (as I used to, but I've come to realize its potential.)


My philosophy is that if you're playing well, you shouldn't need to use Escapist in the first place. If you have to run away from combat, you're doing it wrong. That's why my favored suggestion for Escapist before the EE was to add "avoid attacks of opportunity" to it.


Quote
But still, I'm going to give Wolgraff Swift Footed and Avoid Opportunists (now a rogue talent) instead of Light Stepper and Escapist in my mod. Also gave him another point in dexterity to start.


Did you remove a point from somewhere else, or just a new point on the premise that rogues are underpowered right now?

Chrest - Wolgraff has the same amount of points as everyone else, it's just that one was removed from his STR and added in elsewhere.


Regardless, if a talent could conceivably trivialize the game and make up for the sloppiest strategy in the world, there's something wrong with it. Or if the game was actually really hard, the gimmicky nature of Escapist would be more obvious because more people would take advantage of it.

I did give Wolgraff an extra point, though I think perception does fit his personality. A mute person would tend to learn to listen and see things better than someone who yabbers on all day. And anyway, an extra point in perception hardly overpowers him, as we can see how mediocre perception is on a rogue. Maybe if I buff rogues more (which I already have to a degree), I'll drop it down it down to 6.


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