Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - Enhanced Edition Quest dialogue outcomes have big XP diffs??

Hey folks,

So I just finished Expedition Lighthouse (for the third time) and noticed that Is this a common theme? Is this something to help "really" helpful role characters?

I'm definitely interested in the questing and story aspect of this game, and now I'm wondering how significant carefree choice making can be. Does this just seem significant because my characters are only level 5, or can this choosing certain options really be make and break as far as getting to the highest level?

P.S. Should I have posted this in the "tips" forum? :?

Considering quest XP is usually worth about 2 kills, I really doubt it matters at all.

Choices that avoid fights typically result in receiving less XP (The only occasion where this is not the case that I can think of is
However you usually can just kill them afterwards to max the total XP gain (except

In my opinion nonviolent-solution XP should be equal or superior to the max gain for simply killing everything, and should disable XP gain should you choose to kill anyway.

Given that you will need to engage in combat anyway, and probably in more challenging situations than the ones that you can avoid through dialog, being able to complete nonviolent solutions in addition to violent ones requires a stronger character and/or player than one that can only complete violent solutions, which is why it deserves at-least-equivalent reward. Attempting to do both for the same encounter however amounts to trying to have your cake and eat it too, which should be avoided in design.

And what if my characters don't want to murder folks...?

One of my characters is very benevolent; the other will generally do the right thing (e.g., not murder someone) but could care less about being the "nice guy" or helping everyone (at his own expense). They argue. I wish that they could somehow offer the same XP for all role play choices, but there's no perfect solution to satisfy everyone, I guess. This (quest conclusion) happened to be an occasion wherein my benevolent character would've opted to not lie and thus miss out on the extra XP.

This is a minor concern, I guess, but I am curious to know if they do "all of the quests" are there one or more sets of choices such that they will not be able to reach the highest level.

I'm going to play it out, regardless, but I hope that's not the case. My characters are not shying away from fights...

From a roleplaying standpoint, convincing a guard to let you pass is more fitting for a good char while the double reward (charisma XP + kill) doesn't make too much sense. But on the other hand you don't want to give the players the same reward (XP + gear) for a game of R-P-S (charisma can be maxed out without even investing a single point) as fighting a dozend guys that are above your own level. Also what if you choose the peaceful solution, but still want to pickpocket them/ see what is in the chest in their base and get cought?

Haven't finished the EE version yet but in the vanilla version reached level 23 and continued to rack up over 100K experiance so guess you can do non-violent and still reach level 23. You just won't rack up as much XP near the end of the game.

Heh. I forget about that. In part because I--my "good" characters wouldn't think to do that... ha-ha.

I don't care about XP records, so this is encouraging. I thought the max level was 22, too. ^_^

On the surface, that game of RPS might seem easier, but consider this: You MUST be able to win in combat. There are almost guaranteed to be tougher battles than the one that you are skipping through dialog, usually before that point. This means that you have already proven that your character is strong enough to win through a fight.

By being able to win through dialog, you prove that your character can not only fight, but also talk. The sum total of the minimum stats you need to win both combat and dialog are higher than the minimum to win in combat. Therefor, from a strategic stat-allocation perspective, dialogs are actually harder than combat.

I'm talking in a general sense, not in regards to DivOS specifically. I should note though that in DivOS charisma can't be maxed out "for free". It's effective past 5, you can only get 3 points on gear (one of which being a unique late-game piece), and the talent has an attribute penalty. Even just putting forth the strategic effort to acquire and put on the gear is additional effort beyond combat. Also, because DivOS's charisma dialogs can come unexpectedly in combat zones savescumming (cheating) would be necessary to properly use the gear, and should combat start anyway your character will be equipped wrong, therefor creating an additional risk.

You can have 4 charisma from gear alone right from the beginning of the game with crafting.
Two rings, one belt, one necklace.

And you don't even have to craft the belt if you simly fetch the smelly panty (is it Esmeralda's? can't remember, but I guess it is since it gives charisma).

And as those items require 2 in crafting, you don't even have to invest any point or talent (bracer + belt is enough).

Ah, didn't realize there were crafting recipes for it, I didn't really pay attention to the rings/belts because they typically only offered a single stat point and maybe telekinesis or some crap.

Anyway, it's not like you are using charisma to skip any real challenge in the game. Most fights, especially the difficult ones, can't be skipped. All talking really does is let you skip fights you could have easily won anyway.

The whole point is that it's ridiculous that you should get LESS reward for GREATER investment. By putting time and effort into managing skills like charisma, or going out of your way for some extra quest solution, if the ultimate "reward" is less than simply fighting your way through an easy battle, the system is broken.

I agree, but in a sense you get a higher reward with Charisma than without, since you can get the Charisma XP then kill the guys afterwards on top of it (you could get charisma XP without any point in charisma, but it would take time and savescumming, it's less a hassle to just craft the charisma items).

Twisted, yeah, but that's how it is atm.

Also, but you know it I guess since you've read my suggestions, I don't think you ought to get more XP through Charisma dialogs, I think all ways of resolving problems should give the same amount of XP. So you simply pick the way that you find the most fun: eithe you'd rather talk, or you like the combat in divinity and you fight everything.

While I'm all talks before fights, I always have that weird feeling that persuasion is the easy way in in most games. It's often just a matter of choosing the right dialogue option and voila!
This is an issue with cRPGs, they often make dialogues the lazy option. Convincing a dozen guys you're here for business with the press of a few buttons vs having to spend 15 minutes killing them all : in all honesty I can view the killing them all options as the harder hence the more rewarding thing.

What's more, dialogues in cRPGs are often driven by sheer numbers - do you have enough in Charisma ? Do you have enough persuasion ? If you need points specifically allocated into a secondary ability ( ala Fallout ) to convince the guy handling explosives that you know your way around explosives, do you have enough points in said ability ?
In DOS this is further aggravated by the fact you can reach high score of charisma without ever spending points, hence without ever sacrificing precious ability points earned when leveling up into Charisma. Meaning that just because you're wearing the right set of equipement, you can mostly safely win your arguments.

On the other hand of course, you found a way to avoid a mindless bloodbath, so there is that.
Pillars of Eternity is the better example I think of rewarding the player. No XP is gained by killing people or talking your way through : you gain XP when you complete the quest, that's it. How you did it doesn't matter. It obviously implies a real hard level cap as the XP available to the player is clearly pre-defined, and the level the player will reach in the end is only determined by how many secondary quests he did. I can't see that as an issue, if anything it helps balancing the game out ( you know what is the minimum level the characters will be at any stage, and what is the maximum level he can reach )