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Joined: Mar 2003
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Location: Canada

If you want to discourage yourself from savescumming, you could try playing on a lower difficulty, setting the number of quick and auto saves to 1, and only make a named save at the end of each play session. That should limit the appeal of reloading, while still allowing you to recover from a party wipe.

Tactician and Honour mode were tested; they involve changes to all the combat encounters as well as to various puzzles and item placement in the world, etc, and achievements. What is obvious is that the person in charge of that design doesn't share the same opinion of 'cheap one shots' as you have.
That said, if Honour Mode had been included from the start, perhaps that would have influenced some of the other game design elements.

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stranger
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Exactly my words. I am going to finish the game on tactician mode soon and then I start Honor mode for the first time... and I am already anxious to start hehe

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Originally Posted by Daelus1
Hisoka, that is the issue he is addressing; if you need to know the game "very well" to beat it in ironman there is a problem. Patience and character building should allow you to do it if you are so inclined, however the cheap 1-shot, whole party kills in this game, many of which are outside of combat (forced single file walking over land mines in the middle of nowhere that even a high perception doesn't detect, watchful eyes always getting first attack and doing more damage than your party can withstand by multiples and a few more).....those are unacceptable in any game that has an ironman mode. Games that do this properly have no 1-shot whole party kills AND have much more challenging combat....think X-com or its copycat, Massive Chalice.....very tough (much tougher than the combat in this game), but very fair.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but, like all games, it isn't without its flaws.


You give me hope for humanity.

I'm curious are you voting for Donald Trump?

Anyways,

I'm not sure if this was recently added, but this is a good example of the game giving you subtle warnings to help you survive in Honour mode.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by luzariuslive; 30/09/16 03:41 AM.
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stranger
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I had to login, even on an old post, to point out how objectively wrong your argument is.

You have a preferred play-style when it comes to reloading and saves. I get that, sorta, it's what turned me off of Skyrim was that it felt so bad and non-immersive to reload.

But you clearly have no idea what you are talking about or even how to form a proper argument.

Let's see:
"...Dark souls and bloodborne are severely broken and take zero skill since you're constantly reloading, reloading, reloading, reloading until you figure out a very precise formula..." Skill is defined by Merriam-Webster as "the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance." By your own admission, the games require you to reload (die) in order to learn how you are supposed to not die. Sounds like using one's knowledge, right? Sure it can be a grind, or super niche, or infuriating to figure out, but your argument is objectively wrong. A no skill game is probably a game that you can't lose, even if you don't know how to use the controls.

Secondly, you say dark souls has a"formula that can't be discovered through natural game play and cautious planning." Now in some cases as the souls Series went on, that really is the case. But you say "Dark souls" so I am going to assume you mean the first, and this does hold true for a good amount of the second two games. Dark Souls does a really good job at killing you and teaching you where you went wrong. It doesn't spawn a random boulder right above your head and instantly kill you, it does so with a boulder that had a slightly notable silhouette at the top of a slope, or a slime on the ceiling that you never even thought to look up at, or a pitfall that was very obvious once you looked closer after dying.
Third, "These types of games are broken and are for the extreme casual gamer." Ignoring the elitist mindset, you are contradicting your own argument. If the game is so casual, why does it require so much work - "reloading, reloading, reloading, reloading" - and the utilization of a "very precise formula"? Also, that's just wrong, I think anyone who actually played Dark Souls, even if they absolutely hated it, would know that it is not for "the extreme casual gamer."

Finally, and I love the logical gaps here, "They require massive, extreme forms of meta gaming to a point I find sickening." Wikipedia defines Metagaming as "any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game." At what point did you ever even hint that the way to beat dark souls was to do stuff outside the game? Of ALL the games, what game more purposefully and intentionally incorporates the concept of reloading (dying) more than Dark Souls. The DLC bundled version of the original Dark Souls is Prepare to Die Edition. The entire theme of the game is dying. And dying is the reloading mechanic you mentioned four times over. It is very much part of the game. So again, by definition, you are wrong. The game teaches you how to beat it by having you use methods that fall within the games intended ruleset.



I don't know why I typed all of this really, it's hilarious to me how close-minded you have acted. Have you considered the maybe your two tank characters died because you approached the fight wrong? Why were they close enough together to be killed by one attack. If you mean the first orc fight, that fight is at level 2 and your characters should have roughly 100 hp. Show me a spell that does that much. I bet you stood your characters near one of the very clearly labeled oil barrels which cause a devastating explosion when shot. That is a mechanic that can be inferred from general knowledge, and even if not is quickly learned. Also, at level two you have crap gear no matter what you do barely anymore than 15 % water resistance from a starting ring. You also clearly didn't think about how ineffective two pure tanks were. You don't need to worry about surviving damage as much if you have the cc to stop the mage from casting abilities. I have done that fight several times and none of which had me dying to anything that couldn't have been anticipated three turns prior. In fact none of my characters ever died, even on tactician mode.

That's not even the best example of one shots, why not talk about the exploding grave? Or the traps that cause poison/oil/fire explosions?

I really was just irked at how much better your argument could have been. Because there are issues with dark souls, even more so later on, and I imagine bloodborne had plenty of issues too. And even honour mode I imagine could be handled better, nothing is perfect. But you talk like an elitist who believes that anyone who approaches games in a more casual way is scummy, yet when someone confronts you about games that are widely accepted as being hard games, you blow them off broken games. All I want is a proper discussion, but you throw around words like skill and metagaming in places where they are just flat out wrong. How can we discuss whether a gamemode is well designed or not if you think that failing at something and needing to practice multiple times isn't building skill? Dark Souls asks you to take a look at how you failed and to learn from your mistakes, I think that is a valuable lesson beyond games.

P.S. - Please tell me that for all the games you listed you did ironman playthroughs on at least the second-to-hardest (reasonable) difficulty. Ironman loses its touch if you do games like ME on the Story difficulty.

Last edited by DoubleThorn; 16/06/17 12:37 AM.
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stranger
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Why did you have 2 tanks? With only 4 characters at your disposal overlapping skills seem silly to me when playing honor mode.

You have to actively scout all the time or you will get dead,

Joined: Aug 2008
journeyman
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What I dislike in Honour Mode is the fact that it's the harder of the modes, in a bad way.

I mean... not only you lose your character, but it's the hardest setting, but it's too hard! I played other games that featured a hardcore mode, but it wasn THAT hard, like Diablo (you can even change the difficulty settings on Hardcore).

I died I think 6 times without getting past the first map. I would try more times, but I got tired of doing the same quests and initial battles over and over

I love the fact you cant die because you will lose your save, but It's way too hard. Every enemy knock you down and stun you lol
I wish Honour Mode was more like a hardcore mode + tactician mode difficulty

Don get me wrong, I love hard games. My favourite franchise is the Souls series, but damn... that honour mode is a beast. lol I hope I can finish it someday

Last edited by Rafoca; 16/08/17 02:47 PM.
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