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Daegon Offline OP
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Hello, I am just a couple of achievements away from getting all achievements done but like so many others, the Sister of Mercy achievement with the Revenge of the Source Hunter quest eludes me.

YES, I have done tons of searches, YES I have followed those supposed success stories / guides posted by the tiny few who got it, YES I have followed Raze's guide posts about what dialogue options to choose throughout the game, YES I have chosen every option and still when Madora confronts Norok she refuses to forgive him. So please don't tell me about the 5 minimum dialogue checks etc - I have read all the guides, chosen the stated correct options for a lot more than 5 dialogues so I should have been more than safe in my choices.

So what I am hoping for is some kind of acknowledgement from Larian that the achievement is indeed bugged, or at least a little too strict and possibly something they are working on in a future patch to make a little easier to achieve, or at least more transparent / logically attainable.

I am sure most will understand how this one achievement becomes a depressing stumbling block when one has completed every other achievement including beating the game on honor mode - but is forced to do another 40/50/60 hour playthrough just for this one achievement.

Not saying I am not eager to do yet another playthrough - I love this game, but after my tense honor run I would prefer a relaxed tactician run without worrying whether I've screwed up a single dialogue option with Madora along the way, or worrying about any other achievements.


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If there is a bug with the achievement, it isn't currently a known issue.

Please email supportdos@larian.com, with a brief description (or link to this topic) and the report.zip file (or a Dropbox or Google drive link, etc) generated by the D:OS EE Analysis Tool (for Windows).
Extract the zip file somewhere and run the AnalysisTool.exe. When that loads, browse to the install folder (if it is not automatically detected), optionally run the tests first, and then generate a report (it will be saved in the same location as the Analysis Tool).

The report will contain system and game information, as well as your saved games. To reduce the file size, you can delete most of the saves from the zip, just leaving one before Madora's confrontation with Norok, and maybe a couple before some of the relevant dialogues with Madora, if available.

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This is the last thread in here on this; it works (yes, I have the Achievement)....don't ask why it works, it just does smile

romanius16 Offline
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Hi,

here is the detailed guide-it really works

Cyseal:

After the sparkmaster -> Fortunately for us, no one did ask you, Madora. No magician is perfect, and this little fiasco doesn't justify a wholesale rejection of all wizarding kind.

After talking to the grieving orc -> What kind of Source Hunter can't show an ounce of compassion to someone so obviously bereft?

After killing Victoria and telling Eglandear -> I won't deny responsibility for Victoria's death, but I hardly see this case as a cause for special celebration. Victoria was no Sourcerer.

Decide to kill the Charmed orc -> It's hardly the union itself to which I'm opposed - merely that, if that love potion wore off, she might turn violent.
OR
Decide to spare the Charmed Orc -> Does the thought of interbreeding sicken you so? For my part, the union itself is hardly a problem, and I'd claim that anyone opposed to the couple on those grounds is small-minded indeed.

Talk to Thelyron about the healing stone -> Given your penchant for spotting Source in Cyseal's every harmless cranny, such an accusation holds little weight.

After talking to a guard next to a zapper -> 'Doomsday device'? 'Source sapphire'? Why don't we keep along this 'poisonous path' and carry on with our 'insidious investigation.' Meanwhile, Madora, keep the crackpot commentary to yourself.

After leaving the homestead for the first time -> If what Zixzax says is true and we really are affecting the tapestry of time, I certainly want to know more!


Hiberheim:

After killing a snow warden -> Anything dependent on cloud cover for survival is better put out of its misery, I say.


Luculla Forest:

After talking to Lawrence -> I thought the same; his fawning is more likely a symptom of fear than of respect.

After talking to Almina at the Hiberheim portal -> Now that you mention it, it does seem rather foolish to heed the call of a disembodied voice within a known Sourcerer’s grotto...


Dark Forest:

After hearing Grutilda or Leonard talking about Norok -> Be patient; We can't blow our cover over a personal vendetta.

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Daegon Offline OP
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Hello again

For the benefit of all others who are struggling with the Sister of Mercy achievement I would like to post my discovery - at long last I have finally unlocked it. The problem is with this list of dialogue checks that has been copy pasted everywhere (see above) - I can guarantee that at least one of the checks is incorrect. This list is even posted on the wiki which is sad because it may well be the reason so many are missing the achievement.

More may even be incorrect, in that they actually reinforce her personality rather than contest it - but I did follow the list and do every check exactly as stated, saving only before the last couple I had left.

I then went to Hunter's edge, spoke to the Jarl to hear about Spinebreaker (Norok) from him so that Madora would speak about it - with the forgiving trait on both my characters and every single check done EXACTLY as per 'The List' - I went upstairs to confront Norok and hopefully finally get my last achievement..

And yet again Madora refused to forgive him. I then did a simple test and reloaded to just before the last check - specifically after killing a snow warden. The list says :

Hiberheim:

After killing a snow warden -> Anything dependent on cloud cover for survival is better put out of its misery, I say.

This is incorrect, I chose the other option instead then went back to Hunter's edge to try again and lo and behold, I got the achievement.

IN CONCLUSION : This famous list that is copied everywhere is exactly enough to complete the achievement IF you follow it to the letter but choose the other option for the snow warden check instead, and have the forgiving trait on both your characters. Also - I left just one check out of 'The List' because I didn't kill Victoria. So yes you can do it without killing Victoria as well.

But I still believe a couple more checks may be incorrect - for example I am guessing this check :

Luculla Forest:

After talking to Lawrence -> I thought the same; his fawning is more likely a symptom of fear than of respect.

may be incorrect since it seems you are agreeing with Madora - reinforcing her personality.

I hope this will raise some awareness and help others finally get this damn achievement. No offence to you romanius16 if this indeed is your list that everyone is copying - clearly most of the checks are correct otherwise I would not have got the achievement.

Last edited by Daegon; 22/12/15 08:16 AM.
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While I don't dispute that each and every answer in the above posted solution is required for the Achievement (that's the problem with broken Achievements), on the whole, the above one I posted, which came from Romanius, is VERIFIED CORRECT. It is not a guess, it is not a possibility, it works period.

Anyone following this thread, while I cannot dispute Daegon's solution works, I cannot verify it does; I can 100% verify the other one does. If I had to guess, I would assume you simply did not follow the exact steps above, instead changing some of the answers based on your judgement....read the initial thread, I did the same thing as it made no sense as I was clearly reinforcing her opinions....did not work (again, broken Achievement)....did it step for step....works. When multiple people attest to something, the best YOU should say is, "didn't work for me"; then allow reasonable people to come to their own conclusion (that conclusion would be you didn't follow the steps exactly).

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Daegon Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Daelus1
While I don't dispute that each and every answer in the above posted solution is required for the Achievement (that's the problem with broken Achievements), on the whole, the above one I posted, which came from Romanius, is VERIFIED CORRECT. It is not a guess, it is not a possibility, it works period.

Anyone following this thread, while I cannot dispute Daegon's solution works, I cannot verify it does; I can 100% verify the other one does. If I had to guess, I would assume you simply did not follow the exact steps above, instead changing some of the answers based on your judgement....read the initial thread, I did the same thing as it made no sense as I was clearly reinforcing her opinions....did not work (again, broken Achievement)....did it step for step....works. When multiple people attest to something, the best YOU should say is, "didn't work for me"; then allow reasonable people to come to their own conclusion (that conclusion would be you didn't follow the steps exactly).



Please read through the following post carefully before you dismiss me again or assume anything about me or the steps I followed.

For reference sake, here is 'The List' again :

Quote

Cyseal:

After the sparkmaster -> Fortunately for us, no one did ask you, Madora. No magician is perfect, and this little fiasco doesn't justify a wholesale rejection of all wizarding kind.

After talking to the grieving orc -> What kind of Source Hunter can't show an ounce of compassion to someone so obviously bereft?

After killing Victoria and telling Eglandear -> I won't deny responsibility for Victoria's death, but I hardly see this case as a cause for special celebration. Victoria was no Sourcerer.

Decide to kill the Charmed orc -> It's hardly the union itself to which I'm opposed - merely that, if that love potion wore off, she might turn violent.
OR
Decide to spare the Charmed Orc -> Does the thought of interbreeding sicken you so? For my part, the union itself is hardly a problem, and I'd claim that anyone opposed to the couple on those grounds is small-minded indeed.

Talk to Thelyron about the healing stone -> Given your penchant for spotting Source in Cyseal's every harmless cranny, such an accusation holds little weight.

After talking to a guard next to a zapper -> 'Doomsday device'? 'Source sapphire'? Why don't we keep along this 'poisonous path' and carry on with our 'insidious investigation.' Meanwhile, Madora, keep the crackpot commentary to yourself.

After leaving the homestead for the first time -> If what Zixzax says is true and we really are affecting the tapestry of time, I certainly want to know more!


Hiberheim:

After killing a snow warden -> Anything dependent on cloud cover for survival is better put out of its misery, I say.


Luculla Forest:

After talking to Lawrence -> I thought the same; his fawning is more likely a symptom of fear than of respect.

After talking to Almina at the Hiberheim portal -> Now that you mention it, it does seem rather foolish to heed the call of a disembodied voice within a known Sourcerer’s grotto...


Dark Forest:

After hearing Grutilda or Leonard talking about Norok -> Be patient; We can't blow our cover over a personal vendetta.



I can honestly say I followed every single step EXACTLY, EXCEPT I did not kill Victoria - therefore from the list I did 6/7 from Cyseal, 1/1 Hiberheim, 2/2 Luculla Forest and 1/1 Dark Forest.

Please do not assume 'I simply did not follow the steps above.'

My save / reload test CLEARLY counts for something here so let me explain..

I followed the list exactly EXCEPT I skipped Victoria, that is ONE check I missed. No achievement. I then reloaded and changed just ONE check - the snow warden one in Hiberheim. I got the achievement.

Is this not worth pointing out? Yes 'The List' is verified and attested by many - I did not say it wasn't. But lets assume you actually do think I am competent enough to have followed every step and not have missed a single check except for killing Victoria :

What my save/reload test COULD mean is that 'The List' does indeed get you the achievement if you follow every single step BUT it is the BARE MINIMUM to get the achievement because some of the checks are WRONG and so out of the 11 listed checks *just for argument sake* 6 are actually incorrect, meaning you still get 5 checks correct - the bare minimum. But if you were to skip just one out you would miss the achievement. Can I not logically argue this?

A real world example would be me giving you the answer sheet for a multiple choice test consisting of 11 questions. You need 5 correct answers out of 11 to pass the test, but the answer sheet I gave you has 6 incorrect answers already. So if you study the answer sheet off by heart and do the test exactly as per the answer sheet, you will pass - but if you get just one wrong you will fail. There is no cushion or breathing room.

Please don't dismiss me so easily, my simple save/reload experiment gives me every right to infer the above logic.



Last edited by Daegon; 23/12/15 04:01 PM. Reason: added the list for reference
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You say repeatedly not to dismiss you and then type several times you followed the steps exactly, "except"......do you see the problem.....no? I'll give you a minute.

Before taking offense to my dismissal of your dismissal of a proven correct solution, ask a friend that you trust to read your posts.

Look, I am not trying to be mean, I am being as diplomatic as I can; your posts are incorrect and not helpful as your information is simply wrong. Stop posting incorrect information and I will stop "dismissing" you smile

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Daegon Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Daelus1
You say repeatedly not to dismiss you and then type several times you followed the steps exactly, "except"......do you see the problem.....no? I'll give you a minute.

Before taking offense to my dismissal of your dismissal of a proven correct solution, ask a friend that you trust to read your posts.

Look, I am not trying to be mean, I am being as diplomatic as I can; your posts are incorrect and not helpful as your information is simply wrong. Stop posting incorrect information and I will stop "dismissing" you smile


Allow me to repeat myself yet again - I did not say following the list exactly would not get you the achievement, my argument is that at least one of those checks is incorrect and I proved it.

Clearly you stopped reading my post at the first line, after 'EXCEPT'. So I am done with you, you simply can't think or argue logically and actually be bothered to read my argument. As is typical of many forum arguments, you conveniently skip over most of my post and any valid points I made.

May whoever actually reads this thread in its entirety find my *correct* information useful and understand why they may be missing the achievement if they miss even a single dialogue check, or like me decide NOT to kill Victoria - because doing so shuts out other quests. Simply changing the Hiberheim snow warden check will give players some more breathing room on getting enough dialogue checks, because I without a doubt proved by save/reloading that at least THAT dialogue check is incorrect. Clearly a piece of useful information, hmm?

So to all players reading, simple fact :

If you want the achievement but don't want to kill Victoria (understandably to not miss out on other quests such as Staff of Pergamon from the Mayor)... follow 'The List' exactly but change the Hiberheim snow warden check because it is incorrect smile Then you will get the bare minimum checks to get the achievement smile

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Edu Offline
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Well I'm in the same position as Deagon here.. besides I missed to (or just couldn't) talk with Thelyon about the healing stone, cause my story did advance to fast, but killed Victoria instead.. and I didn't get the Trophy.

Only thing I'm still missing out is the last Option, to overhear Gritulda oder Leonard to talk about Norok, can anybody tell me, when this dialog will occur?

And another thing about the forgiving trait.. do I just need to have it (Stauts Quo: about 75%), or do I need to have get it maxed out?

I love this Game, but this one is creeping me out ^^

Last edited by Edu; 12/02/16 08:38 AM.
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I just got the "cursed" trophy, I just got near the "inn" in the Dark Forest and the dialogue eventually popped up (you can try to talk with Grutilda about Norok too, but I'm just guessing here).

I followed "the list", killing Victoria and doing allt he stuff listed in it. I didn't had the forgiving trait MAXED on my characters, but had it on both.

That's aruably the "hardest trophy" of the game just because there are so many different information about it. All I can say is that "the list" worked, at least for me, even if some answers you have to give are pretty contradictory, but if is the trophy that you want just follow it.

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This trophy sucks in general. It sucks from a thematic design perspective.

The Trophy, for this and all similar 'types' of trophies, should be: Completed Companion_Xyz's Personal Quest! Then leave the how, what and why of the quest to the player so that their choice actually matters.

By rewarding certain choices, by nudging players down certain paths, I feel that the general spirit of having multiple paths through a quest is done an injustice.

As a long time player of RPG's (since back in the early days of first and second addition d&d and ad&d respectively) I've never liked reinforcing certain behaviors over others in players. It cheapens the element of choice and devalues the spirit of player freedom.

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