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Just a question for development since soooooo far there isn't any beyond "Generic" which for the most part has no real background (just keywords).

What I mean are backgrounds which do not require you to play a very specific character. Where you can customize them as any race and build.

Or is Generic going to be upgraded to sort of encompass that? So that if one chooses "Thief" that there might be more then just thief dialog options.

Since to admit one BIG reason why there are "Character" backgrounds (as in backgrounds where you play a specific character) only is likely because they are the easiest and best to showcase with "Generic" not having much else to it, and others are planned for later.

Last edited by Neonivek; 26/08/16 02:53 AM. Reason: Clarity
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I'm not sure I get the question: are you asking if there is a blank background or if there is a "generic" origin story?

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I think he means that there are specific characters/companions who have their own unique trait/background with unique options.

I think he's asking if there will be any additional unique traits/backgrounds that will be restricted to only the custom characters.

My answer is, I hope so. XD

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I 'think' Ayvah is correct. Though that wording gives me pause.

To give you an example of what I mean Dark_Ansem:

In the current (VERY EARLY UNFINISHED) game build when making a new character you can chose the Background of "Red Prince" if you do this your character defaults to... well... "The Red Prince" with all the traits, abilities, appearance, and what have you that the character has with no ability to edit or alter it. Essentially "The Red Prince" is a preset character.

This is the same, currently, for all the backgrounds you can select except for "Generic" which basically has no background (you get to chose from 2-descriptors that give you dialog options but that is it).

So currently you either play a "pre-gen" character with an actual background... Or a "Generic" without one.

So I am wondering if we will get "Custom character" (as in the one you make yourself) backgrounds that aren't essentially preset characters or mostly blank slates.

It is why I am asking since the game is really unfinished... so I can't assume one way or the other.

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As far as I understand, in a practical sense "red prince" is just a trait unique to the red prince character (who also has other more generic traits). So it sounds like you're really just talking about traits.

Did you mean you want to write your own flavour/background text for your custom character? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't let you do this. It should be easy, but it also doesn't seem very important.

Or are you hoping for something like XCOM 2 or the Sims, where you can build your own character with a backstory and upload him to the Steam Workshop?

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
As far as I understand, in a practical sense "red prince" is just a trait unique to the red prince character (who also has other more generic traits). So it sounds like you're really just talking about traits.

Did you mean you want to write your own flavour/background text for your custom character? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't let you do this. It should be easy, but it also doesn't seem very important.

Or are you hoping for something like XCOM 2 or the Sims, where you can build your own character with a backstory and upload him to the Steam Workshop?


Ok I'll try to explain further.

YES "The Red Prince" gets the "Red Prince" tag which is unique to that background. Yet he also gets unique quests, he uncovers aspects of his past, and has NPCs specifically respond to his background.

And YES all the backgrounds get 2 additional tags (each race also gets a tag). These tags only effect conversations so far as giving you a few additional options.

However the "Generic" background will never get unique quests, NPCs, locations, or intrigue.

And the "Generic" Background is the only background that allows you to make your own character.

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Well, it may very well have changed, but the (tentative) plan stated during the KS campaign was that if your player character replaces one of the pre-created potential companions, you can change:

A) sex, head & skin
B) class, stats & skills
C) name - unless you're the Red Prince
D) race - as long as it makes sense

Kind of sounds to me like all the origins - other than, of course, the generic one - might've through iteration solidified so far that none of them allow different races anymore, but don't quote me on this.


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Originally Posted by Neonivek

Ok I'll try to explain further.

YES "The Red Prince" gets the "Red Prince" tag which is unique to that background. Yet he also gets unique quests, he uncovers aspects of his past, and has NPCs specifically respond to his background.

As far as I understand, this is all linked to his trait/tag. If your character is tagged as a woman, you will potentially have access to a couple of quests unique to women, for example.

So I think what you want (and I want) is for them to create some tags for use by the custom character only that allow you to make the character more fun to play.

I expect that if they haven't done this yet, it's only because the game is still in Alpha.

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
Originally Posted by Neonivek

Ok I'll try to explain further.

YES "The Red Prince" gets the "Red Prince" tag which is unique to that background. Yet he also gets unique quests, he uncovers aspects of his past, and has NPCs specifically respond to his background.

As far as I understand, this is all linked to his trait/tag. If your character is tagged as a woman, you will potentially have access to a couple of quests unique to women, for example.

So I think what you want (and I want) is for them to create some tags for use by the custom character only that allow you to make the character more fun to play.

I expect that if they haven't done this yet, it's only because the game is still in Alpha.


No, that isn't what I want... What I want is... well

To Quote the Kickstarter

Quote
Origin Stories: You’ll have a choice of several origin stories, each one a pre-made past for your character, which will ground them in the world you’re exploring. You might meet people who’ve heard of your story, or suffered a similar fate. You might meet some old friends to help you on your way, or cross paths with those who have a score to settle. The origin stories bring a rich, deep narrative to the game, which compliments the world and gives you lots more options for how you can interact with the people around you.


I want that... But with a character I create and modify.

And "Generic" doesn't supply that... and the tags "Generic" gets doesn't supply that.

I am wondering if there will be Origins that do not require you to play pre-gen characters.

Last edited by Neonivek; 25/08/16 02:31 PM.
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So, basically, unspecific origins? Farmer, adventurer, child of a merchant, etc?

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Originally Posted by Raze

So, basically, unspecific origins? Farmer, adventurer, child of a merchant, etc?


Goodness it is like the more I try to explain it the less understandable I become (which is an unfortunate trait of mine)

Since I do not know what you mean by "Specific" versus "Unspecific" since by all means being say... "The heir to the throne" or "The Grand High Wizard of Lobsterland" sound specific since there can only be "one". So I will try to explain myself (it is going so perfectly so far isn't it? AHHH! Help!)

Basically origins that aren't "Generic" but aren't tied to being specific characters. Your "Unspecific origins" could easily be assumed by applying the "Generic" origin anyhow and just making sure the tags you chose fit the origin you have in your head.

Yet lets just say "Child of Merchant" was an origin and it was what I was referring to. What would it mean?
1) The merchant would exist, you could see him in game and you could talk to him
2) There would be people who know you who would have names and influence, you would have connections based on being a merchant
3) You could visit the trading post, shop, or what have you that would have to exist according to that origin.
4) There would be specific quests, optional goals, and rewards based on this origin.

In fact there would likely be some reason why this detail is important. There would likely be some reason why you start the game the way you do even as "The son of a merchant". You didn't just appear or travel to the plot some day. Your character might talk about how they were part of a caravan, delivering some goods, kidnapped by a competitor, or something before the plot started.

Not that there couldn't be requirements to play certain origins or they all need locations... Only so far that you have some input (especially name and appearance)

Yet I guess what I am asking is if there are going to be indepth origins that aren't Pre-generated characters? Since currently there are 5 Origins
1) Generic: You have no background and no connections. (Custom character)
2) Ifan: You are playing as Ifan (Pre-gen)
3) Lohse: You are playing as Lohse (Pre-Gen)
4) The Red Prince: You are playing as The Red Prince (Pre-gen)
5) Sebille: You are playing as Sebille (Pre-gen)

So basically currently... Unless you play a specific pre-genned character who you cannot edit, cannot change the name or, and cannot change except post character creation. You cannot play a character with any connections to the land, its people, or really anything.

Can you play a character that you create and edit yourself, give your own name, pick their race, their skills, what have you... Who has connections to the land, its people, and the quest you are going on (Beyond some plot "chosen one" Spackle) via their Origin?

Last edited by Neonivek; 25/08/16 08:38 PM.
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I think I got it: are you talking of something ala Neverwinter nights? where the character is "the recruit"?

Even if so, I have the feeling that the game will make you the chosen one sooner or later.

Last edited by Dark_Ansem; 25/08/16 09:12 PM.
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There is no way to have an arbitrary character with a specific origin (if you can specify the character's name, no NPCs in the game could know them by name, etc). The origin would need to be related to something else (a relative, apprentice, employee, etc of a known person or organization), and all interactions would have to be restricted to being gender and racially neutral.

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Originally Posted by Raze
There is no way to have an arbitrary character with a specific origin (if you can specify the character's name, no NPCs in the game could know them by name, etc).

This suggests you're considering having substantial voice acting?

Without voice acting, I don't see why others can't refer to your character by name, just like the old days.

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Originally Posted by Raze

There is no way to have an arbitrary character with a specific origin (if you can specify the character's name, no NPCs in the game could know them by name, etc). The origin would need to be related to something else (a relative, apprentice, employee, etc of a known person or organization), and all interactions would have to be restricted to being gender and racially neutral.


We have done that for years...

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Ayvah;
If there is any chance some dialogue could be voiced, why design the system to preclude that possibility?

Even with fill in the blank name slots, there are still restrictions on how quests could be designed, or it would add significant extra work accounting for all the combinations of gender and race.
A simple name substitution could cause issues with localizations, as well (masculine vs feminine names, maybe differences in grammar).


Neonivek;
I didn't say it couldn't be done, just that doing it that way would put restrictions on how it could be done. That's fine if that is all there is; the direct comparison with specifically crafted characters, quests, relationships, etc, may leave such origins a little lacking.

Note that I have not actually looked up the current state of the origins, and haven't been following the writers' progress. They may have a different opinion on the value of writing specific origins around nonspecific characters.

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Originally Posted by Raze

Neonivek;
I didn't say it couldn't be done, just that doing it that way would put restrictions on how it could be done. That's fine if that is all there is; the direct comparison with specifically crafted characters, quests, relationships, etc, may leave such origins a little lacking.

Note that I have not actually looked up the current state of the origins, and haven't been following the writers' progress. They may have a different opinion on the value of writing specific origins around nonspecific characters.


That is sad... and honestly takes away the ENTIRE point of origins for me.

If the kickstarter said "You can play pre-generated characters with origins... Or your own with no origin" No one would have supported that. As opposed to "You can have your own origin!" the kickstarter advertised.

This makes me wanting to know the answer to the question all the more...

Last edited by Neonivek; 25/08/16 11:45 PM.
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What do you think the point of origins is, if they can be completely divorced from the character?

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Originally Posted by Raze

What do you think the point of origins is, if they can be completely divorced from the character?


Well I'll just get some quotes here as honestly Larian studios understands the point of origins are period.

Quote
At the start of the game, you pick a single character and determine your starting stats, race, and origin story.

You'll be able to recruit up to three companions, each of whom is just as detailed as the character you're playing, with their own origin story and motivation to help you in your quest.

Origin Stories: You’ll have a choice of several origin stories, each one a pre-made past for your character, which will ground them in the world you’re exploring. You might meet people who’ve heard of your story, or suffered a similar fate. You might meet some old friends to help you on your way, or cross paths with those who have a score to settle. The origin stories bring a rich, deep narrative to the game, which compliments the world and gives you lots more options for how you can interact with the people around you.


It is kind of simple really. It puts your character into the game, into the world you created, and makes them feel all the more organic and your adventure all the more personal. It gives your character hooks.

Almost all games that let you make your own character pretty much make them basically a blank slate with little-no story and if there is something there they quickly try to rush past it so you forget (Neverwinter Nights 2 for example... you might as well forget your origin story immediately). Divinity 2 Original Sin actually stood out as something that was trying something different. It said "Hey, you can make your character and assign him a backstory which will even affect the narrative around them".

As well when I heard origins originally said I NEVER EVER EVER thought it meant pre-gen characters and in fact I bet you NO ONE ever thought they were...

In fact I'll go even further and the original videos shown for the game showed backgrounds as not being tied to specific characters.

In fact even the current information remains incredibly vague as to whether the game will have Non-generic Non-pregen origins.

Yet is it the case? The game is so early in development that the current 4 pregen characters might just be the first 4 origins (not to mention they need to be down since they ARE technically companion characters you get no matter what)

---

Calling you by the proper name can be done. Making "relatives" the right race can be done. Gender pronouns, can be done. As well most conversations in the game as they are... Are Race Agnostic (even when they REALLY shouldn't be...) and Gender Agnostic so it wouldn't even be a bigger burden on the writing staff.

I don't see this great barrier in giving you a backstory... letting you make your character... and having people from that backstory interact with you and call you by name.

---

But really I'd like to know either way... Though it might be a while until a developer lets me know...

Last edited by Neonivek; 26/08/16 12:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by Raze

There is no way to have an arbitrary character with a specific origin (if you can specify the character's name, no NPCs in the game could know them by name, etc). The origin would need to be related to something else (a relative, apprentice, employee, etc of a known person or organization), and all interactions would have to be restricted to being gender and racially neutral.

You know, there was another RPG - one with fully voiced NPCs even - which also had player character origin stories as one of its major selling points and managed to handle full character customisation (given name, sex, and when appropriate also race) within those Origins just fine almost a decade ago...

Originally Posted by Neonivek
As well when I heard origins originally said I NEVER EVER EVER thought it meant pre-gen characters and in fact I bet you NO ONE ever thought they were...

In fact I'll go even further and the original videos shown for the game showed backgrounds as not being tied to specific characters.

In fact even the current information remains incredibly vague as to whether the game will have Non-generic Non-pregen origins.

QFT


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