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Ayvah Offline OP
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I was watching some Early Access footage today, then I noticed an interesting exchange
https://youtu.be/mNJyvnyrZw4?t=17m32s

The player stole a few things from the tent belonging to this NPC. This is pretty normal for D:OS.

But then something different happened. When the player started leaving the tent, the person who lived there asked to search your bags! Pretty cool change. I mean, sure, it really makes me feel like you're walking out of a supermarket, but it's nice that you can't so easily get away with stealing everything that's not nailed down!

This is followed with some persuasion checks to try to talk your way out of the situation, but this is where it starts to derail. After the persuasion check fails, the lady (who is clearly out-numbered) then attacks you in a battle to the death. She is promptly killed by the player in self-defence.

Look, I understand that in the USA it's common courtesy to empty your shotgun at anyone who even loiters on your front lawn (although I understand Larian is in Belgium). But seriously... It was a fireball scroll and some healing potion. Consider your priorities, lady. Also, after the failed persuasion check, there was no opportunity to say, "Okay, you're right. I'm a bad guy. What can I do to make it up to you?" It's a cartoonish world where the punishment for every indiscretion is DEATHMATCH.

Anyway, I would just like to encourage Larian to continue searching for alternatives to using murder to solve every disagreement.

Last edited by Ayvah; 29/08/16 02:58 AM. Reason: Updated link with timecode
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The lady in question was trying to protect a child whom she instructed to run away. Perhaps to prevent automatic combat when the character in question is obviously over-matched there could be an intimidation check. ie. players party strength vs target strength that determines the likelihood of combat. If the target fails the strength test she could call for help or cower in a corner if no-one is around.

There could also be an option to say stop fighting at any time in which case you would return the items and that lady will forever eye you warily and not talk to you further.

Last edited by BlueGuy; 29/08/16 01:05 AM.
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I think the issue is that the default 'fail' shouldn't always just be 'deathmatch'. This occurred in D:OS as well, like if you accidentally stepped foot into someone's bedroom or something while they were watching, they'd immediately choose to bring you to 'summary justice' with bare fists vs. your swords and axes and whatever else. If a poor woman is getting something stolen from her, she can either call the guards, or get the hell away, fight shouldn't really be an option unless she's like some kind of ultra-witch who can take care of herself.

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That would be nice. In fact it's something which was supposed to have been in D:OS 1 from the early kickstarter videos. I'm surprised that they haven't done it for D:OS 2 yet.

What's wrong with the "warning/fine/prison" system that the Elder Scrolls uses?

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
That would be nice. In fact it's something which was supposed to have been in D:OS 1 from the early kickstarter videos. I'm surprised that they haven't done it for D:OS 2 yet.

What's wrong with the "warning/fine/prison" system that the Elder Scrolls uses?


Because it is excessively gamey and is FAAAAR too corrupt to take seriously.

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Ayvah Offline OP
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I prefer to have RP consequences. For example, in the above example, Unnis does not appear to be a violent person until she suddenly and jarringly challenges you to a battle to the death. She is also not effective in battle, and she clearly has a child to protect.

Worst of all, after killing her, there appears to be no real consequences.

Perhaps there should be a form of impact on your reputation. Like she runs away and tells her friends who then no longer trust you. Maybe the prices in shops get more expensive? Maybe they follow you around when you walk around their house? Or Unnis's friends (who may be quite strong) later confront you and eventually battle you in a more fair fight. There are different ways you can handle it depending on how elaborate and creative you want to get with it.

Although I still think battles should not always result in death. There is actually another example here of a battle (between two PCs) that ends before death, which is refreshing to see.

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Originally Posted by Neonivek

Because it is excessively gamey and is FAAAAR too corrupt to take seriously.


It is still an order of magnitude less ridiculous than "you stole a wooden spoon from me! Now I and 20 other unarmed civilians will fight your party of heavily armed warriors 10+ levels higher than me TO. THE. DEAAAAAAAAATH!!!!!!"

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Neonivek

Because it is excessively gamey and is FAAAAR too corrupt to take seriously.


It is still an order of magnitude less ridiculous than "you stole a wooden spoon from me! Now I and 20 other unarmed civilians will fight your party of heavily armed warriors 10+ levels higher than me TO. THE. DEAAAAAAAAATH!!!!!!"


I still like that you go to jail depending on the crime and might actually have to get busted out.

I HOPE you can game over by having everyone go to jail.

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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Neonivek

Because it is excessively gamey and is FAAAAR too corrupt to take seriously.


It is still an order of magnitude less ridiculous than "you stole a wooden spoon from me! Now I and 20 other unarmed civilians will fight your party of heavily armed warriors 10+ levels higher than me TO. THE. DEAAAAAAAAATH!!!!!!"


I still like that you go to jail depending on the crime and might actually have to get busted out.

I HOPE you can game over by having everyone go to jail.

There's always been some kind of out if everyone goes to jail, whether it's teleportation, lockpicking, sweet talking, or deals with the devil. I wouldn't see an game ending thing there.

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The problem is... It kind of cheapens the game so to speak.

You murdered a huge bunch of people... so they put you in jail for a bit but... OHH NO! that would stop the plot!

So you either get a REALLY lenient sentence, ridiculously so, get let out by someone who REALLY should have second thoughts, or this is the easiest jail in existence to bust your way out of.

I'd rather have a game over then a flimsy justification. If we can't game over by having everyone arrested, then there better be one HECK of a good reason!

Not that I am against just paying our way out for lesser crimes... But Murder, especially some murders, is a bit too much.

Heck HERE is a good reason... They sentence you to death and KILL YOU!

but of course you guys are immortal so long as one of you survive. >_>

Unless you all die.

Last edited by Neonivek; 29/08/16 04:35 AM.
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*shrug* Welcome to the world of drop-in, drop-out co-operative play completely integrated into the game.

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Why not, murder is a good solution. There shouldn't be tolerance. It's a fantasy world.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
*shrug* Welcome to the world of drop-in, drop-out co-operative play completely integrated into the game.


Uhhh... that... isn't in the game.

Even then... I don't see why my viewpoint is so incorrect that I don't want absolute immersion breaking justice

"Stop murderer! You killed... 116 people! You will be in jail for a week!"

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Why not, murder is a good solution. There shouldn't be tolerance. It's a fantasy world.


You typically don't let murderers go free... to murder some more.

Last edited by Neonivek; 29/08/16 05:32 AM.
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Originally Posted by ChavaiotH
Why not, murder is a good solution. There shouldn't be tolerance. It's a fantasy world.

Are you trolling?

I get caught stealing a wooden spoon. The punishment should be death?

It really ruins the immersion when something small like this goes wrong any you're stuck with either having to murder the entire village, or having to reload. If they can apply some kind of reasonable consequences, then we can just continue playing with the negative consequences.

GAME OVER as an outcome should be avoided. Any time you have to reload the game it breaks you out of the immersion.

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I know that I am likely going to be the one losing in this.

Since I HIGHLY doubt Larian would go against common thought and not have the maximum prison sentence be a slap on the wrist like any game with a justice system :P

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
Originally Posted by ChavaiotH
Why not, murder is a good solution. There shouldn't be tolerance. It's a fantasy world.

Are you trolling?

I get caught stealing a wooden spoon. The punishment should be death?

It really ruins the immersion when something small like this goes wrong any you're stuck with either having to murder the entire village, or having to reload. If they can apply some kind of reasonable consequences, then we can just continue playing with the negative consequences.

GAME OVER as an outcome should be avoided. Any time you have to reload the game it breaks you out of the immersion.


Yes, the punishment should be death. Ok, in some cases hacking thiefs hand off is ok. But there will be difficulties with gameplay implementation.

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In civilized areas -in case of thieving you should be branded a thief so that others are aware of your past. This brand could be magical or an actual physical brand. That could cause some interesting reactivity. Also maybe an option to have the brand removed by performing a task for someone in authority.

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Vendor/Villager: "Stop Thief!"
...nearby Vendor/Villager(s): "Stop Thief!"
...nearby Guard(s): "Stop Thief!" - Give Chase
...Swarm of guards: Pummel, pummel, knock out
Judge: Fine = 2x value of theft

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Could there be - I know. I'm only fishing here for cheap points - an option inside the players head to NOT steal everything not nailed down?

Personally I find the constant looting and stealing the most frustrating thing in games.

You go into what is clearly the home of a poor peasant, and you are given the option to loot everything they have.
Perhaps the real deal here is the restraint the player can showcase when not deciding to steal. See, THAT's pure role playing.


Great last words.

Oh no. Not again...
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Originally Posted by ChavaiotH
Why not, murder is a good solution. There shouldn't be tolerance. It's a fantasy world.


That's wrong. A fantasy world does not absolve the inhabitants of the world from generally trying to act in a reasonable manner.

NPC's which are people you can talk to should show greater intelligence than an insane rabid animal. As in perhaps they should possess a survival instinct and not suicidally take their level one, knife-armed ass to attack the heavily-armed warrior who stole a wooden spoon.

You want to talk about immersion-breaking, that's definitely it. Travel back in time 500 years and blatantly steal a spoon in a crowded market, and that won't suddenly make the entire crowd turn as one and try to beat you down. Most wouldn't care at all.


Originally Posted by Neonivek

Uhhh... that... isn't in the game.

Even then... I don't see why my viewpoint is so incorrect that I don't want absolute immersion breaking justice


Are you saying that this game does not have co-operative play?

Are you expecting a party member to pickpocket contraband into your avatar's inventory, snitch on you to the guard, and then you are stuck in jail forever, game over? Because I don't think that will happen.

All games have compromises and breaks with reality for the sake of fun. You have to learn to accept that. The game doesn't force your players to eat food every few hours and drink every few hours and use the latrines every few hours and sleep for 6-8 hours while doing nothing except watching your avatar sleeping.


Originally Posted by Ayath The Loafer
Could there be - I know. I'm only fishing here for cheap points - an option inside the players head to NOT steal everything not nailed down?


There's always that option. I use it all the time. But because the option is in the player's head, it's up to them to decide whether to use it or not.

Larian's philosophy seems to be allowing as much freedom as possible. They could easily have programmed in a "non-interactive" flag into their world objects so that players cannot interact with them at all. But that's not what they wanted to do.

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