Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#586109 17/09/16 04:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
M
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Sep 2016
Lets be clear. This game is going to be incredible. Divinity: OS was incredible, Divinity: OSEE was incredible, and I don't doubt that this one will live up to the former games as well.

That being said, what's the deal with having damage reduction on your skills as you level? It's odd to me that I have to put two points into Strength, Finesse, or Intelligence every level just to stop my abilities from having damage reductions on them. Can someone explain why this exists to me because I feel like I'm just missing something!

(Thank you for the early access Larian, love you!)

Last edited by Michiganfan0308; 17/09/16 04:40 AM. Reason: Made minor changes
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Midian
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Midian
http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=585752#Post585752

It is something that needs to be fixed in my opinion.. not really sure an explanation would make sense. What sense does it make to get weaker as you level?


There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls.” – George Carlin-
Joined: Sep 2016
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Sep 2016
This!

I'm loving almost everything about D:OS2 so far, but this is one of the few things I find annoying. I wanna be able to feel stronger as I level. Not only that, but the system currently rewards you for being boring and dumping all of your points into a single skill. I wanna be able to do more fun hybrid builds, and the current system dissuades that.

Joined: Sep 2016
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Sep 2016
Yes, the stat system as it currently stands is.........quite horrible to be honest -_- On the other hand, I'm surprised that I find myself liking Memory in order to make one decide in how specialized they want to be. Oh, and to be quite honest, I'd love it if they replaced crit chance on Wit with something else; there's so many ways to ensure guaranteed crit or build a high crit chance that I don't see a point...thus making the stat seem sorta wasteful if all your getting from it is initiative and chance to find secrets easier.

Joined: Oct 2015
N
old hand
Offline
old hand
N
Joined: Oct 2015
Originally Posted by aj0413
Yes, the stat system as it currently stands is.........quite horrible to be honest -_- On the other hand, I'm surprised that I find myself liking Memory in order to make one decide in how specialized they want to be. Oh, and to be quite honest, I'd love it if they replaced crit chance on Wit with something else; there's so many ways to ensure guaranteed crit or build a high crit chance that I don't see a point...thus making the stat seem sorta wasteful if all your getting from it is initiative and chance to find secrets easier.


You like memory FOR NOW... since all the skills (for the most part) cost 1 memory.

Wait until the 3-10 cost skills.

Joined: Sep 2016
A
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
A
Joined: Sep 2016
There is already skills that cost 3 memory slots in the EA (found a necromancer skill like that). I think this balances the game if OP spells cost 5 memory slots, it's a choice to make, will you take it or have more spells ?

Anyway, you're right, it feels odd and it forces you to put points in some primary stats.

I feel like there should be something else. Someone played Path of Exile ? In this game, you can level up your spells after using/xping them and leveling them ask you better stats to still use them and greater mana cost.

There could be something similar maybe ? You can level up spells after some XP or uses and the higher the level, the more it relies on high stats. For example a level 1 fireball would be for 12 intell (so more intell more damage) but a level 3 fireball would do greater damage but rely on a 20 intell (so you would lose the more damage from before BUT the spell does more damage itself or it can even be a greater zone or greater chance of CC or something else)

Well, going to make a topic about it !

Joined: Apr 2011
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
You must have missed the many reports that damage drops on level up since the +bonus on skills declines / -penalty on skills increases. And if you put +2 into it (so all you got) all it does is EVEN it out, not increase it... even it.
Attributes are completely pointless as result, any and ALL progress comes from gear. Not good, especially with the extremely lacklustre combat abilites (Woot, +2% extra armor for my second point, +1% for the third and up, such progress!).

EDIT: And the post I responded on is gone... eh, points are still true.

Last edited by Hassat Hunter; 18/09/16 10:04 PM.
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Midian
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Midian
Really hoping the attribute thing gets addressed soon...


There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls.” – George Carlin-
Joined: Aug 2013
member
Offline
member
Joined: Aug 2013
I have to agree with this. The current setup effectively makes doing anything other than +2 to the attack stat each level a trap option and renders hybrid builds like the Wayfarer a downright terrible prospect. If this scaling is absolutely critical to the design then make it 1/level rather than 2/level so that the other point can be spent elsewhere.

I'm fine with diminishing returns or even a hard cap on going over 'par' on the attack stat (the latter seems to exist at character gen) if that's necessary to maintain balance (and encourage player to spend the second point on something else). For that matter I'd be okay with 1/level scaling and splitting the stat points between attack and utility categories just like skills (+1 to Str/Fin/Int and +1 to Con/Memory/Will each level).

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Midian
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Midian


There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls.” – George Carlin-
Joined: Sep 2016
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Sep 2016
[quote=NeutroniumDragon] I have to agree with this. The current setup effectively makes doing anything other than +2 to the attack stat each level a trap option and renders hybrid builds like the Wayfarer a downright terrible prospect. If this scaling is absolutely critical to the design then make it 1/level rather than 2/level so that the other point can be spent elsewhere.

I'm fine with diminishing returns or even a hard cap on going over 'par' on the attack stat (the latter seems to exist at character gen) if that's necessary to maintain balance (and encourage player to spend the second point on something else). For that matter I'd be okay with 1/level scaling and splitting the stat points between attack and utility categories just like skills (+1 to Str/Fin/Int and +1 to Con/Memory/Will each level).
[/quote]

What you said sounds like a good middle ground they could reach.

I will say though that wayfarer is actually pretty strong if you min-max.

- Scoundrel for bigger and bigger crit mult.
- Sneak means Guerrilla and backstab for 150%+ damage and guaranteed crit...also through some strategy, grenades, skills, and terrain usage you can effectively manipulate all of your opponents to face one direction. At which point you can attack multiple times and then go back into sneak before ending your turn and then the AI is left just standing there 95% of the time.
- One handed for damage and accuracy (Dual wield doesn't actually give more DPS since the AP cost is 2 for 1 attack and the damage bonus on one handed is bigger)
- Building Memory and a single point in hydro and fire and such lets you have access to a number of skills to help you in tight spots...you can also cast forify and frost armor before battle
- Last but not least, starting as sibil gives you bonus Finesse to help meet status quo min req and gives you ability to gain certain skills without spending ability points to unlock them for learning.
- The flesh skill also gives 1 more AP for attack or sneak and another 25%+ damage


With this set up I was killing enemies in groups of 1-6 as level 1-2. It's super easy to die if you get CC'd or fail to avoid detection during combat and they all get an attack off, but actually trivialities one-on-one/two encounters...killed two level 4 guards at fort entrance as level 1 with my fists after shiv broke in combat ;)

Arena was also super easy given all the enemies line up facing you...just move behind them and hide and attack and hide again ->repeat.

All the guards in front of the big door in the fort was kinda hard but grenades and using walls and doors and such made it work

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Originally Posted by NeutroniumDragon
I have to agree with this. The current setup effectively makes doing anything other than +2 to the attack stat each level a trap option and renders hybrid builds like the Wayfarer a downright terrible prospect. If this scaling is absolutely critical to the design then make it 1/level rather than 2/level so that the other point can be spent elsewhere.


If you're only getting 2 ability points per level, needing to spend one of them just to maintain the status quo is still not good enough. The enemy HP is increasing, but just one point to maintain the status quo means that you are not making progress. You're still getting weaker unless you invest both points.

Of course there are equipment bonuses, but comes back to relying on the RNG to sustain your progress.

Originally Posted by aj0413

What you said sounds like a good middle ground they could reach.

I will say though that wayfarer is actually pretty strong if you min-max.

- Scoundrel for bigger and bigger crit mult.
- Sneak means Guerrilla and backstab for 150%+ damage and guaranteed crit...
- One handed for damage and accuracy (Dual wield doesn't actually give more DPS since the AP cost is 2 for 1 attack and the damage bonus on one handed is bigger)


Just as an FYI, Guerrilla is only useful if you're dual-wielding. Sneak costs 1 AP, so if you're only using a single dagger (1 AP attack cost), using Guerrilla and Sneak means that you're spending 2 AP to get getting the same damage as two regular backstabs (2 AP).

When dual-wielding, Guerrilla + Sneak lets you do 4 AP worth of damage for 3 AP.

For single-wielding, Guerrilla is only useful for waiting until combat starts, them moving behind enemies to get in one attack to start the fight.

Joined: Sep 2016
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Sep 2016
[quote=Stabbey]

Just as an FYI, Guerrilla is only useful if you're dual-wielding. Sneak costs 1 AP, so if you're only using a single dagger (1 AP attack cost), using Guerrilla and Sneak means that you're spending 2 AP to get getting the same damage as two regular backstabs (2 AP).

When dual-wielding, Guerrilla + Sneak lets you do 4 AP worth of damage for 3 AP.

For single-wielding, Guerrilla is only useful for waiting until combat starts, them moving behind enemies to get in one attack to start the fight. [/quote]

While I realise that Dual Wielding makes more effiecient use of Guerrilla, it doesn't make it not useful for one handed since it adds a bonus to the beginning of every round for me since I go into sneak as my last move.

*shrug* also one has to take into consideration that the accuracy bonus from one handed means I have to worry less about Finesse for a guaranteed hit. bonus damage means nothing if it misses.

Last point is that the AP I save by only spending one attacking means that I have more strategic leeway for how my AP is used and what I can do with it. Always needing 2 AP just to attack means you have to make hard choices on what you want to do at times with limited AP (if you have 2 AP left I can't attack cause I need to hide before AI can go for instance or if I have three I can attack and then hide, but one handed can attack, cast sleep on another, and then hide).

AP management and battle control is significantly more important than damage bonuses when soloing the game with only one char.


Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
I wasn't trying to imply that Dual-wielding is superior or the only way, just that Guerrilla is of questionable value when using single-handed. Sneaking at the end of the turn can also be a dice roll if an enemy turns around when moving.

Joined: Sep 2016
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Sep 2016
[quote=Stabbey]I wasn't trying to imply that Dual-wielding is superior or the only way, just that Guerrilla is of questionable value when using single-handed. Sneaking at the end of the turn can also be a dice roll if an enemy turns around when moving. [/quote]

Wasn't implying you were. Just informing of my experience.

See, sneaking is kind of broken at the moment. 95% of the time if you're successfully hidden and all your enemies aren't in the middle of trying to get to you last known position (which sometimes will cause them to move and spot you), they'll just stand there aimlessly.

It's incredibly rare for the AI to oust me once hidden during combat and generally the fewer enemies the less likely to happen.

If I could manage to get the first move or survive theres without some debuff or other? I wouldn't be surprised at all if I could beat a level 20 NPC with a level 1 Sibil using stealth

Joined: Nov 2015
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2015
Originally Posted by aj0413
Originally Posted by Stabbey
I wasn't trying to imply that Dual-wielding is superior or the only way, just that Guerrilla is of questionable value when using single-handed. Sneaking at the end of the turn can also be a dice roll if an enemy turns around when moving.


Wasn't implying you were. Just informing of my experience.

See, sneaking is kind of broken at the moment. 95% of the time if you're successfully hidden and all your enemies aren't in the middle of trying to get to you last known position (which sometimes will cause them to move and spot you), they'll just stand there aimlessly.

It's incredibly rare for the AI to oust me once hidden during combat and generally the fewer enemies the less likely to happen.

If I could manage to get the first move or survive theres without some debuff or other? I wouldn't be surprised at all if I could beat a level 20 NPC with a level 1 Sibil using stealth


In DOS:1 EE you could basically sneak your way through the whole game with little to no risk, but it took FOREVER. You would come out of sneak mode, get one attack in, go back into sneak mode, and then wait for all the enemies to pass their turns.

I am perfectly fine with being able to cheese the game like this. If you wanna take 45 minutes to beat one fight, one backstab at a time, that's fine with me.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5